SimplyAmorous

Scriptures here>>

The only problem I personally have with these scriptures is 1 thing... blaming it on SATAN... That is far too easy for me.... why is He the scapecoat here ... Nope, I BLAME it on the refusing cold rejecting callous spouse who is willfully spitting on the marraige bed, might as well be teasing you saying "ha ha ha, you can't have me".

Even God understands THIS temptation (if one believes in scripture that is). Me & my husband feel as this, that our bodies are not our own but to lovingly yeild to each other, we see this as beautiful, the way our Creature designed the Marraige bed. If things are not right within the marraige, abuse, resentment, I can see some having a problem with this, so work on it -get back to harmony!

I see the REFUSER as planting the destructive seed and watering it's roots ...who willingly put a stake through the heart of the marraige and is standing there watching it bleed day after day after day... while their spouse grows weaker & weaker & weaker, feeling worthless, empty, broken, like a man thirsting in the desert... the sheer emotional pain the refuser emanates night after night after night .... allowing her man to go to bed with a "loaded gun" & turning a blind eye.... I feel nothing but empathy for such spouses.

What really rattles my cage is when some call the refusers INNOCENT.....I do not see them all as innocent by any means...they are not harmless doves who stood by the marraige & watered thier own gardens. They were neglectful & mean spirited, they provoked their spouse to temptation and anger in many of these situations. Each is so different that only GOD himself could weigh in on who was hurt more so.

The Sexually neglected spouse needs to clang some warning bells -even if they raise the roof off the house about it...

Maybe speak something like this ""Look - I love you, but LOve is NOT enough here, I didn't take vows to be celibate & treated like a roommate, so I am asking you to work with me here, agree to counseling, bloodwork to rule out where your sex drive is, meet me half way, or I will divorce you to find the intimacy I deeply crave in this life...my own happiness is important to me"....


Better to be point blank HONEST and PI$$ED than Sweet /passive and a LIAR in leading to a secret affair......and God help them if they stand to loose their kids & house over this (generally why people take the easier road)....I doubly feel for them -I would be angry as hell if I was in their shoes ....this is not fair at all...

I find I have ALOT of sympathy for the high driving spouse IF they are the type that really has been heart shatteringly neglected....if they have tried, prayed, went out of thier way to arouse, please & care, desperately trying to save the marriage bed..holding out that HOPE.....if they have been honorable for years, faithful & true, doing their part (and yes, such spouses exist, they are on this forum, I "feel" their pain)...when they become so beaten down, reduced to "thirsting in the desert" for intimacy that has been lost, feeling it was stolen from them....

If THESE Good hearted men & women fall into something... I can sympathize to HOW it happened. Oh yes..very much. In those cases, I believe they still loved thier spouse deeply --and even should be forgiven - in some cases, it accually TAKES this to wake some spouse up from the sexless grave.

When someone can not see their own HAND in what brings these horrendous things upon a marriage, well, It would be best to leave those types anway --leave them in the dust.

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cloudwithleggs

I totally agree, my estranged husband did that to me, but i know now he is narcissistic and they don't really like intimacy. I think they prefer sex with themselves.

I have a HD, so i would look else where, never physically being unfaithful but mentally, it was not enough.

I won't be faithful physically any more, yet i am still married, but it never meant anything, it was more of an ownership thing for him, i am property.

I am waiting for a divorce, it may be a long wait, as one min he says he'll give me a divorce then he says he'll never divorce me and he will fight me over it.

Runs like Dog

One is usually used to rationalize the other. Certainly.

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7737

The bible also says 'Thou shalt not steal'.... What if you are destitute, living on the street and starving so steal a loaf of bread...?

uhaul4mybaggage

I see your point. But suppose your spouse refuses you the foods you like, and only gives you what they like, which you detest? That is also a betrayal.

I entered our marriage on a steady diet of emotional and physical nurturance (I'll call it chocolate..) that helped me to feel loved and fulfilled. There was cuddling, foreplay, thoughtful gestures, notes, calls, the kind of food my soul needed. And I responded in kind with the kind of food his soul needed--lots of physical, variety, willingness to try almost anything, desire to please even if it wasn't always my cuppa..
I wouldn't have married anyone who i didn't feel was already giving my soul the diet it needed. That would have been dumb of me.

But what to do, when right after the ceremony, it's suddenly bread and water? I mean, I guess you're still eating. But it was certainly a bait and switch. You feel deceived and stuck.

"It's usually hard to solve a problem of withholding sex because once it gets to that point it's more about anger, resentment and power withing in the marriage."

I know it was for me. I would have been glad to have the sexiness we had in courtship, but the after-cuddle completely disappeared, and you're damn right resentment builds over that stuff.

When does with holding (of either need) become an objectable offense? After two rebuffs? One? I know there are evil, frigid people who are purposefully denying their spouses physical relations, but there are also emotionally frigid people who think that just because a need for other kinds of intimacy isn't their own need, it isn't relavant and doesn't need to be met.

Marriage is, unfortunately, a wonderful opportunity to find out exactly how selfish that completely selfless creature you married really is. And how that simple change of ingredient transforms ambrosia into something you just can't palate.

7737

I believe in a 'higher being'...but I would not count myself as 'religious'.
I see the ten commandments as a set of guidelines NOT rules. See my above post.

Let me simplify....if a marrage vow was 'if your wife/husband has an itch, it is your responsibility as his/her husband/wife to scratch it for him/her'....

If you didnt or refused to scratch his/her 'itch' and he/she got it scratched elsewhere, whats the big deal? What do you expect?

Whats the difference?

When we say 'I do' we accept a 'package/contract'. I am 'agreeing' to give my wife all the 'things' that she 'needs' and she is agreeing to give me all the 'things' that I 'need'. Our 'needs' may differ, but they are nonetheless important to us and the 'package/contract'.

You fail to keep to your part on the contract, don't whinge, moan and feel sorry for yourself if your spouse seeks 'that' part of the contract elsewhere.

It really is that simple. (medical issues aside)

somethingelse

I wasn't blaming Satan. and that person wasn't either. Sorry if I sounded like one of those people.

That scripture simply says, do not deprive each other, but come together as soon as possible, because by ignoring each others needs you let evil get a foothold.

God does not blame Satan, but the sinner for believing him and following through with sin. On another note, God also does not hate the sinner, he just hates the sin.

This puts full responsibility on us. If we fail to do what that scripture says, then we have allowed ourselves to be overcome. It's our own fault.

We all make mistakes. Not one person on this earth has not sinned one time or another. It's human nature to fall into these things, not that we should. But that's why God brought his Son into this world.

Gaia

If its really just an itch then why not scratch that itch yourself if your spouse won't? Really not that hard to take care of it yourself while you try and figure out why your spouse won't do it for you.
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SimplyAmorous

Accually It never dawned on me that You was blaming Satan, I have used this very scripture reference on TAM over a handful of times & I always say this same thing -I just quoted your post since you had the scripture there handy. It is just my own "twisted" thoughts.... I used to be a Christian, but I have pretty much lost my religion. My husband would say that was a blessing. I still believe in the Golden Rule ... I likely THINK like 7737. I aslo think along the lines of this, I see MERCY HERE to the situation >> No fundamentalism here, I am not devoted to a literal interpretation of Doctrine....otherwise I would have to pluck my eyes out .....I enjoy them too much!

I undersand exactly what it means, I just happen to fault the sexual withholder for starting the downfall. That is just how I see it. Even when couples fight, they should still be having sex, commit to making up..

When kids get into a fight in school, we ask...who started it.. In my mind, the REFUSER is the evil one. I understand sometimes the Sex Driven driven spouse may not be meeting the others needs... my beef is when they ARE without fault.... and the other is just uncaring & are still met with endless ..."no's".... "I have a headache"... "I', just too tired"....it's predicted on their lips. and has a "its my body attitude" - I find it the height of cruelty, and yes, breaking of "spirit" of the intended marital vows.


Because we didn't get married to go it alone.. that is what being single is all about (well not in this day & age)... we are meant to come together, and be as One.. going it alone causes a mountain of resentment, why the hell marry then!

Some can handle this resentment, I personally am baffled by that - I consider them the selfless ones to stay, halos on their heads. I'm admittably too selfish - I find masterbating Hollow and empty compared to being with my husband. And if I had to do it because he didn't desire my touch, I'd likely grow to despise him.

Not worried about this happening -by the way, just saying.

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Gaia

Yes I know people don't get married to go it alone but I was saying why not work on the problem or at least try to instead of getting the itch scratched elsewhere... aka cheating... (that's what it seemed 77 was hinting at) and if the problem can't be resolved then I would say its better to break it off and find a new partner.
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deejov

I see this differently.

If I was starving on the streets, instead of stealing a loaf of bread I would go to a shelter, a church, and ask for help. I would accept responsibility for my situation and work my way out of it. And believe me... not having food is a big issue for me.

The problem with viewing "meet my needs" as an ultimate goal in life is that I will never be satisfied. The grass is always greener, I will always want MORE, and feel like I have a right to have more. Just how I see it.

I now tend to think of my life as "what am I giving" instead of what am I getting.

Like the movie I saw once about a genie in a bottle. The man asked for "all the money in the world" and it appeared at his feet. But he found he could not give any of it away.... because then he didn't have ALL the money and it ended up back at his feet. He used his third and last wish to ask for the ability to give. He ended up exactly where he was before... same job, same wife, same kids. It was always there. He just didn't have all the money in the world to give away. He was supposed to give of himself. He didn't "specify" what he wanted to give.

If you are constantly thinking about what you are getting or not getting, it makes sense to assume that the people in your life are also thinking the same thing about you. They are measuring you on what they are getting. So you might as well just play along and focus on what you are giving. It's much more simpler to judge yourself than another person. You know your motives. No guessing involved. Life is a breeze this way.

Gaia

Awesome post deejov and I agree with it!
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PBear

My thoughts... Both of them are breaking of the marriage vows. Both of them are reasons for ending the marriage. But neither of them "justifies" the other. The same as cheating doesn't justify physical abuse, etc.

C

SimplyAmorous

I think everyone has their personal line drawn in the sand to how long they will "put up with" VOW breaking behaviors...For some, a sexless marraige (10 or less times a year) is NOT even breaking vows....though I would disagree.

And some of those who THOUGHT they could handle it..staying for the love of their children..... find down the road they couldn't do it......just a touch of the hand, a kind word at work, a little opening up, a little compassion, a little attraction...the spark is LIT ......hormones go into overdrive......

When one is STARVING at home (emotionally & physically- as "making love" provides both of these glorys!) .......the electricity of that can overtake someone suffering its neglect -like a whirlwind ... they might not even know what hit them...... (And no, I have not experienced this, my imagining what it might be like is enough)...people here call it.... "the Fog" . It happens! After all , we are only made of flesh, blood & tears. Too many have boasted....."No, not me, I could never cheat" ....only to eat those words oneday & hate themselves for it.

Very very sad....shouldn't have happened at all. When a spouse neglects the others marital needs...temptation enters, some are stronger than others... The smart ones get out in time & carry their integrity with them... But BAD will always result, whether it be depression -leading to meds, anger, resentment walls, suffering, Divorce court and well... sometimes cheating. This is nothing new under the sun, it will forever BE.

We should all do this, true ....but living as an unconditional lover when the other is offering only "crumbs" back... Naaahhh , this wouldn't be working...

And what that man wanted- well he was clearly being unrealisticly GREEDY >> Anyone who has his heights set THIS HIGH, Mr or Mrs Greedy Impersonafied ....would never be satisfied with anything....he'd be jumping every green pasture... of course he learned a lesson in that... some has never learned gratitude, nor contentment in this life...while others would kill for the life they have.

But ultimately ....I feel ...Givers should BE with Givers.... If one is a loving generous Giving spouse (in the sexual -or any area of importance TO THEM)... they'ed be damning themselves to remain with another who couldn't care less about such things....It'd be like themselves in the heart, but missing & living with a gaping hole in their chest for the rest of their lives. Just not worth it.

Have realistic expectations in a marraige...but don't settle for crumbs either.

No justification -this is true.

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jaharthur

Not the same.