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Sex in Marriage Sexual problems are common in many relationships. This section is for discussions about sexuality. Please limit discussions to those asking for help with a problem and those offering advice. Any other threads may be deleted.

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Old 08-11-2012, 02:39 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

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Adultary and withholding are both wrong. Withholding is the greater evil. It is possible to commit adultary without one's partner even being aware. It's not possible to withhold sex without harming one's partner. Further, in my mind, if a spouse is in a fraudulent marriage (refuses sex for months or years at a time), there is no victim should an adultary take place. One can't steal abandoned property. If one wishes to claim a sexual right to another human being, the logical inferrence is that they also accept responsibility for meeting that person's sexual needs as far as they are physically able. A deliberately withholding spouse is not a spouse at all. Whether they end up abandoned or cheated on, they would receive only that which they have earned. Don't feed your dog? You can hardly complain when it finally wanders off to feed itself.
And interesting point of view.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:33 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

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Originally Posted by jaquen View Post
If the vow is to forsake all others, the inverse is "for he sake of one". This is a sexual/emotional vow. The two parties have made vows to:

A. Not sleep with, or romantically entangle with, other parties.

B. Provide sexual and romantic/emotional gratification solely to one another.

Assuming that the denied spouse is upholding the tenants of matrimony, and the witholding spouse is chronically denying them adequate sexual gratification regardless, is not the withholding spouse breaking their marriage vows, and in essence shattering the marriage?

And if then the denied spouse turns to adultery for an outlet, is not the marriage already broken due to the actions of the withholding spouse?

Obviously one should divorce before lying with others. But under this circumstance who do you believe broke the vows first: the witholder or the adulterer?
I agree with your viewpoint. The standard in marriage is to provide for the sexual satifaction of your spouse and your spouse only. So, whether withholding sex or cheating, you are committing an equally serious wrong against your spouse (assuming the withholding is not due to some abuse issue).

I know Brabius is banned, but I wanted to mention that IMO he has the Scriptural angle wrong. He implies that withholding sex is wrong but adultery is a divorceable sin. My understanding (after reading up and seeing the arguments) is that Scripture allows divorce for sexual immorality. Since having sex with your spouse and your spouse only is a requirement, withholding is grounds for divorce along with adultery.

ETA: the one who withholds broke the vows first.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:46 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

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Would these be religious beliefs? The concept of concomitant obligation is taught pretty early on in an ethics course and those tend to be pretty secular.
I'm not sure about other religions, but since sex is Biblically commanded, it seems that the major branches of Christianity (Orthodox, Protestant, Catholic) and Judaism require spouses to provide for each other's sexual satisfaction. Where they tend to differ is the extent and form of sex permitted (such as whether birth control is okay, which sex acts are permitted).
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:55 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

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Sorry but your friend is a whimp if he believe the stupid stuff she says about this.
Or his self-esteem has been obliterated by years of refusal, harping, and nagging. I've been there, and it's a deep and dark hole to climb out of.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:04 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

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On the topic of her filing a false abuse claim... well there are ways to protect oneself from that as well.
Yes there are, but the practical problem is proving those allegations are false. My ex accused me of abusing our child as a way of keeping her from me - completely unfounded and child said it never happened. Spouse says child has changed story and she was acting on what child had told her at the time.

So, ultimately, I had to fight hard to get myself cleared. I did get some additional protections, but only against wrongdoing. She ultimately paid no serious price for her lies. The point is that often there is no long-lasting penalty for making those sorts of accusations.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:37 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

There is a longterm penalty for being a lying, coniving bat. While going through our divorce, my ex tried to lob that abuse grenade on me, too. It failed, of course, and she suffered no immediate consequences. However, both our kids are grown now, and neither have anything to do with her and neither do our grandkids. A lying, evil bat is a lying, evil bat and kids grow up to see lying, evil bats for who they are. The problem with kids is they have eyes, ears, and brains. You might fool the court but you won't fool them.
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Old 08-12-2012, 09:52 AM   #112 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

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There is a longterm penalty for being a lying, coniving bat. While going through our divorce, my ex tried to lob that abuse grenade on me, too. It failed, of course, and she suffered no immediate consequences. However, both our kids are grown now, and neither have anything to do with her and neither do our grandkids. A lying, evil bat is a lying, evil bat and kids grow up to see lying, evil bats for who they are. The problem with kids is they have eyes, ears, and brains. You might fool the court but you won't fool them.
Yes, of course you are correct. But that's of little comfort when you presently cannot see your kids or when you have to undo the damage caused by selfish parents willing to use their kids as a weapon.
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:38 AM   #113 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

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Originally Posted by jaquen View Post
If the vow is to forsake all others, the inverse is "for he sake of one". This is a sexual/emotional vow. The two parties have made vows to:

A. Not sleep with, or romantically entangle with, other parties.

B. Provide sexual and romantic/emotional gratification solely to one another.

Assuming that the denied spouse is upholding the tenants of matrimony, and the witholding spouse is chronically denying them adequate sexual gratification regardless, is not the withholding spouse breaking their marriage vows, and in essence shattering the marriage?


THIS HAS BEEN NOTED by others especially on the web but not expressed in book or in public I am aware of. That being said I believe there are things in a marriage much worse than adultry that everyone accepts as well just the way she or he is, say what? THIS PARAGRAPH BY COOKIE 99



And if then the denied spouse turns to adultery for an outlet, is not the marriage already broken due to the actions of the withholding spouse?

Obviously one should divorce before lying with others. But under this circumstance who do you believe broke the vows first: the witholder or the adulterer?


Again there are other items at least as bad as adultry and it is not generally viewed as reasons for divorce but yes these things brake the mariage. Of note no where in public has it been noted of any vow to have or not have sex in a marriage that I heard, just horror stories and hope and encouragement it will be fullfilling. The bible says not to deprive each other and I think something about not causing another to sin (adultry) I think.

It seems to me that sex was designed for marriage with the vows to keep families together not have sex because you are married. So when sex is bad the marrige usually suffers and or comes apart. You think?

For me there is too much emphasis on adultry and too little on other things. Because like stated here sexless marriage like other issues in a marriage render it a meaningless yoking. However because of unique situations there is the cases where a spouse does not want or need sex. I assume this is the better or worse case where it is worse.

The providing sex as in duty sex seems ridiculous to me as meeting the obligation of not depriving the other. That kind of sex is menaingless and not rewarding and as demening as no sex at all in my opinion.

So it seems a sexless marriage is just that you lose and are the proud owner of the short end of the limp stick.

The other issue is when single we are to by biblical standards be content without sex and not sin, and then with an I do turned loose with what was sin.

Fullfillment of love sex and marriage for many of us is and has worse odds than vegas by a very long shot. For most of us marriage sex stinks and very little we can do about it or is there?

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Last edited by Cookie99; 08-12-2012 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:26 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 1 Corinthians 7:3-6
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:59 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

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Further, in my mind, if a spouse is in a fraudulent marriage (refuses sex for months or years at a time), there is no victim should an adultery take place. One can't steal abandoned property. If one wishes to claim a sexual right to another human being, the logical inference is that they also accept responsibility for meeting that person's sexual needs as far as they are physically able. A deliberately withholding spouse is not a spouse at all. Whether they end up abandoned or cheated on, they would receive only that which they have earned. Don't feed your dog? You can hardly complain when it finally wanders off to feed itself.
Perfectly stated.
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:40 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

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I'm not sure about other religions, but since sex is Biblically commanded, it seems that the major branches of Christianity (Orthodox, Protestant, Catholic) and Judaism require spouses to provide for each other's sexual satisfaction. Where they tend to differ is the extent and form of sex permitted (such as whether birth control is okay, which sex acts are permitted).
Whether Commanded by a deity or whether just by common sense and logic, the position of "mate" requires mating. The male robin does not build a nest and provide worms for a female robin who won't mate with him. A car that won't run isn't transportation. An employee that doesn't work isn't an employee. A mother who won't feed her baby isn't a mother. No one keeps pruning and watering an apple tree that won't produce fruit. If you're a husband, be a husband. If you are a wife, be a wife. If you can't bring yourself to be what you say you are, have the decency to change your marital status. Then, you are free to be a sexless zombie. There is no law requiring people to be married. There is no constitutional right to a spouse's labor. Want to be alone? Release your slave of a spouse and be free. It's a free country and people are free to b e sexless zombies for all eternity. They don't have a right to drag perfectly functional sexual beings down into their sexless hell with them.
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:59 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Default Re: Does anybody else feel Adultery and Withholding Sex are equally as wrong?

Zombie thread which violates SIM rules.
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