How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
I am wondering how to gain the upper hand in the sex department, so that its not all directed by my husband. As it stands, if I try to say no, he gets angry. Yet in his world its fully ok for him to say no. What can I do?
This morning he comes to me and gives me his daily goodbye kiss (he wont kiss me hello at the end of his workday even though I have requested for a long time). He forgot something and came back to me again. When I asked what he was doing he said he was giving me an "embrace". I gave him the cold shoulder about it w/o saying no (did not embrace him back and did not open my mouth for the kiss when he tried to). Can I actually say no, Im not in the mood to allow you to give me something when Im not allowed to give to you? Did my non-verbal language convey enough that I dont actually have to say anything? Men... I especially need your advice on using non-verbal language vs words as body movements seem to convey quite a bit more to a man than words do.
How can this be handled better? Or, should I go on being the dutiful wife and give to him bc I want to, and just hope he starts to give back to me what I need?
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
Choose2Love,
I have tried similar "disinterested" type tactics in the past and they seldom produced the results I wanted. It is so frustrating to play these games and they just don't seem to be very effective. I understand that your relationship is lopsided but I think you need to try and look at the positive things here. At least your husband does come in and kiss you good-bye in the morning. Many do not, including up until recently myself, and I like to think of myself as being fairly sensitive (that's why I've been here!). I would not push off his advances, especially since you have stated in the past that he has shown a complete disinterest in intimacy.
As far as communication is concerend, I will only speak for myself but I think most men on here would agree, we don't interpret implied messages very well! Cold body language is obvious, our woman is pissed about something, but what that something is may be a mystery. The best way to communicate to the majority of us is by speaking very openly about it. My wife funny enough is more like a guy with regards to communication. She thinks everything is fine even when I take the "female" approach to communicating, like what you are doing, and finally I just have to set her aside and have a face-to-face discussion to make things crystal clear to her. I know that your husband has not repsonded very well to your direct conversations though, so it's not an issue of him not getting your signals, there's something more to him. At the end of the day, it's resentment that becomes the real problem that can be difficult to overcome. The rejection leads to resentment, and it sounds like you both may be suffering from that. I'm not sure what else I can tell you. Communication with compassion will go a long way if both parties are open to it.
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
Mattie,
C, My wife use to do the same thing. I'd go give her a hug and she she would just let her arms drop and she would turn her cheek to me - no hug in return. So - what did that mean. OK, here's a guy thinking about this as it happens:
Oh Oh, she's upset about something. OK, so what is it? Damn, what did I do now?
See, the point is that she knows right at that precise moment what is bothering/pi***ing her off. BUT - we men are not mind readers. You see, there are probably 5 to 10 different random thoughts in our minds as to what the hell is going on. So then, we start to get aggrevated becuase we know she is mad or unhappy about something and we simply can't put our finger on it - and then it just snowballs.
The point is, as Mattie pointed, we are not mind readers. And yes, she is probably thinking, - "We'll he should know, I've already told him before.", yadda, yadda, yadda,. But you see, we DON'T remember. Becuase men are like that, we forget very quickly and we normally have a very short timespan for holding grudges. So as Mattie pointed out, a very clear direct civil conversation about what is bothering you or what you feel needs to be fixed in your marriage will go a lot farther than the cold shoulder. Let him know what your needs are and how you feel but talk to him with no kids around and when you are able to sit down for a while and communicate best with each other; but don't wait too long for this or things will just continue to fester until it gets worse.
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
BrighterLight and Choose2Love,
Thank you for the compliments! BrighterLight, you bring up yet another point that will help Choose2Love a bit more. You are absolutely positively correct in the notion that most men have very short term memories when it comes to holding grudges or "keeping an account of the injury". If I happen to go to bed upset (which the Scriptures advise you NOT to do), I always wake up the next morning feeling like nothing happened. Women have a tendency to hold onto trespasses where they can fester and lead quickly to resentment. I know if I can into an argument with my wife the night before I will always kiss her goodbye the next morning. One time after an event she turned her back on me when I tried to kiss her goodbye. That sort of blatant rejection did not go over too well with me and I left upset for the better part of the day. That sort of behavior does nothing to settle issues. It sucks to be hurt and rejected, but perhaps an approach of bashing him with kindness will make him rediscover his conscience and he will begin to feel bad about how he has been treating you. The reverse psychology may work, or maybe it won't. But, you will be the bigger person for trying and setting the example by which should be followed.
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
Non-verbal communication is childish. If you have something to say, say it. And you know this deep in your heart. You wish he'd know. You wish he'd understand. YOu wish he'd read your mind. But is that realistic? And when it just makes things worse, you'll kick yourself.
Do the right thing. Talk to the man. Give your marriage a chance.
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
C, we really are not trying to bash you here. As a matter of fact, it's quite the opposite. I am trying to give you some clues as to what definitely won't work on men. What I was trying to point out on my post is that the "cold shoulder" technique can most of the time, backfire. Men, don't take to that very well. So if you are just trying to get even and make him as upset as you are then that does work quite well. But if your goal is truly to get his caring attention and to get him to respond to your advances then talking about the issues is best. It's never easy becuase no one wants to get into an argumentative discussion; God knows we have enough with taking care of home and children, but it is really the best option to lay the foundation to reconcile. I can just tell you that for sure, without a doubt, the cold shoulder routine is just a catalyst for more resentment - on both sides. Think of it as a vicous circle the can only be broken by a line of constructive VERBAL communication.
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
Choose2Love - I've read some of your other threads so if I recall correctly you have verbalized what you want, correct? So it's not an unknown issue to him, right? Based on what you've written previously I don't think there should be much confusion on his part regarding what you want. But that doesn't mean he'll connect the dots himself.
The other posters make good points about him just thinking you're mad about something (could be anything). For me as a husband I like to have clarity and things spelled out for me. I like it when my wife tells me what she wants to make her happy then it's easy for me to do. Non-verbal can be confusing and he may not get the message without some sort of verbal clarification.
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
C2L
You truly have a challenging situation. I don't think this will make it better. I think when something happens like it did this morning - let him kiss you and just play with him - meaning you can tease him a little verbally if you want.
Just curious about one thing. OK - so I am the high drive spouse. But I am not crazy about it when my wife initiates. I know that seems insane but the thing is, she doesn't reject me any more. I mean some nights she might decline sex but she does not reject ME. Because she does that nice loving "how about tomorrow" thing.
But - I DO like it my wife flirts with me. I love when she wears skirts I love her legs, that gets me warmed up. And she can do the light back massage/scalp massage thing and accidentally bump into me with her boobs. That is different then if she just came up and started kissing me.
Don't get me wrong, when she does I respond and I do not decline sex with her unless something is really wrong with me - which is rare. But I am just asking how he responds to being flirted with in a low key way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choose2love
I am wondering how to gain the upper hand in the sex department, so that its not all directed by my husband. As it stands, if I try to say no, he gets angry. Yet in his world its fully ok for him to say no. What can I do?
This morning he comes to me and gives me his daily goodbye kiss (he wont kiss me hello at the end of his workday even though I have requested for a long time). He forgot something and came back to me again. When I asked what he was doing he said he was giving me an "embrace". I gave him the cold shoulder about it w/o saying no (did not embrace him back and did not open my mouth for the kiss when he tried to). Can I actually say no, Im not in the mood to allow you to give me something when Im not allowed to give to you? Did my non-verbal language convey enough that I dont actually have to say anything? Men... I especially need your advice on using non-verbal language vs words as body movements seem to convey quite a bit more to a man than words do.
How can this be handled better? Or, should I go on being the dutiful wife and give to him bc I want to, and just hope he starts to give back to me what I need?
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
As a guy that got hammered in this so many times - the nonverbal signals, I gotta agree with what the others have said. When it happened, I knew someting was up, but did not know what, or often which, item was the issue. I think that action will only inspre more on his part and this will continue. At some time the issue needs to come up, and the sooner the better, when it is a smaller issue, not not tangled up in other things.
I'm not suggesting that you just do what he wants, as this goes both ways. He needs to understand that it is someting serious for you, not just a little issue because it is yours. If you have told him what your issues and wants are, are you sure he understands? Have you tried doing both? ie, giving a little when he tries, but making it understood that there is an issue, then bringing it up later? You may need to tie together what you did specifically to a need that you are not getting met by him? this will help show the connection between your actions and his actions and make him see this more clearly.
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
Some great feedback everybody! He does know what I want which is why his rejections when I approach him hurt so much more... it says to me, a woman, his wife... I dont give a sh%$ about what you want. So, I should just continue on being the better person and not reject him. Ok, guys, does that then convey to him that all those times he rejected me are ok? That I forgive all those hurtful times? Bc that is not what I want to communicate until he starts not using sex as control.
Mem pointed out that he doesnt like it when wife approaches even though he is the high drive (like me)... so, should I just continue to leave it up to him? My ability and desire to approach him is shattered anyway bc of all the time he rejects me. I cant do any sexy dances or flirting anymore bc I he WILL reject it. I have dreams about dressing up in my french maid outfit for him to come home and see me cleaning in... stillettos and all... but with our history, he would walk right past me and not notice. I cant risk the rejection anymore. ALthough there was this one time I was wearing his button down white ****r and napping... he thought I was suducing him... no, I was really napping as I was pregnant. He didnt say a word and then took me right there, but without much interaction... it was too fast for what I like now. He missed out on all the quickie sex I used to need/crave bc of the stress during my divorce. Now im just stressed with him. This scenario was a long time ago...
I guess the bottom line is, why should I even put forth the effort anymore if he is just going to turn me down? SHould I play out those fantasies for myself, bc I want to do them, and if he notices then great? WHat do you think?
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
Brighterlight, yes he does know what the issue is... perhaps he cant connect the dots on it? I think you are right bc all he says is you think sex is only on my terms... instead of saying you want me to say yes to your advances. SOmetimes I do want to punish him for treating me this way for so long (Like why should he get away with rejecting me for so long like nothing happened... but if I say no once to him I get the wrath of satan)... but I dont do punishing very well, and I crave kisses too much to fully punish him. Talking to him is punsihment, seriously, he told me so. He says it ruins his desire, so I cant talk with him. ALl your advice is great, but what if we cant talk, bc it further ruins his desire?
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
C2L,
I'm not sure there's much more I can contribute to this. I completely understand your concern that if you just continue to be the one offering yourself up despite his rejecting you and overall poor behavior that you are simply enforcing it. He is not suffering any consequences of his actions. I think, though, that you need to communicate to him the possible consequences instead of giving him the cold shoulder or continuing to torture yourself. You need some relief! I guess you have to make it crystal clear to him that if he doesn't do such and such you are going to do such and such, an altimatum. I'll relate a true story illustrating my point: my wife had become so frustrated with me siding with my family and not supporting her wishes on a particular subject that one day she mentioned to me that she was going to look for an apartment! I initially took this as an empty threat (of which I do not respond favorably to) so she did not get the reaction out of me that she had hoped, initially. However, I quickly came to the realization that this was bothering her far more than I had realized, so I addressed the issue. It was a shame that I made it go for so long and essentially forced my wife to almost take extreme measures. It never should have escalated to that point but due to my lack of response it did. I didn't realize it was such a big deal until she hit me with the threat of moving out. Wow!
I'm afraid your husband will not respond the way you would like him to or take you seriously until you tell him point blank what's going to happen if things don't change. Again, I'm not an advocate of divorce; I personally don't believe in it, for it states at Malachi 2:16 that "God hates a divorcing". Please believe me when I say that I'm not judging you, divorce happens all the time and even my wife has been married once before and I would never hold that against her. However, when we do have a heated discussion from time to time and the "D" word is mentioned (more to get a reaction out of me then anything else), I get very upset at the notion. I'm not one to give up or just throw in the towel, the marriage vow is a verbal contract and an agreement that we would support each other in good times and in bad. We have to do everything we can to work out our differences. The fact that you resent your husband and yet are still very much attracted to him physically speaks volumes of your love for him. Tell him this! Make him look within himself and rediscover his conscience! You are a remarkable (and rare woman) based upon of I've read here that most men on this forum would be psyched to be with, so tell him. I think he has taken you for granted, we're all guilty of that. There are too many songs out there relating the same thing, but we take evrything that we have for granted until we no longer have it. This includes our spouse, our children, our health, etc. Damn, I need to heed my own advice! Please just talk to him, don't play any more games. Tell him what you expect from him and ask him what is wrong. Perhaps he will enlighten you on something that you were totally unaware of. Let me know how it goes.
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
Thanks. I have already threatened to divorce him if this did not improve (and we have only been married 6 weeks). I either have a really stubborn man as my husband or he really doesnt want to be with me and just hasnt admitted it to himself. I will try one more time, but I am not allowed to contact him via email or txt or phone if its relationship stuff. I have to wait not until he gets home, but after he makes his lunch for the next day and showers from the gym and eats dinner... then MAYBE he will talk. But, if he hears anything relationship oriented he shuts down and says he doesnt want to talk about it or to quote him "I just want to not talk about relationship stuff for a while.". I feel that my last option is to actually print out an apartment rental and leave a note... "honey, I just cant take the lack of intimacy anymore, give me a call when you figure things out." I went to a hotel room overnight last week... and it worked wonders, but the positive effects only lasted through the weekend. I slept amazingly well, too. I would have stayed away all weekend, but we had a planned party at our house and he said he would divorce me if I didnt show up.
Oh well. I will keep you posted. I really appreciate the suggestions, from you and everyone else and will try my best. You have gotten me to think about some other things as well. Thank you so much
Re: How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
Have you simply discussed frequency, asked what his ideal would be, tell him what your ideal would be, and attempt to reach a compromise? Different drive marriages really need to do this.
I'm like you in that my drive is higher than my husband's. But he's affectionate all of the time so it makes it a lot easier to take than it sounds like you're dealing with.
He could probably use some counseling so he can learn to open up. I wouldn't doubt if he feels like a freak of nature to be the lower drive person in the relationship being the man. He may have an image issue going.
Since you're so upset about this and already considering that what he's doing is using sex as control, I take it that this has gone on longer than the 6 weeks you've been married. If that's the case, why did you marry him?
How do you say no to a low desire partner when they approach you?
