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post #61 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 09:09 PM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

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Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
What does Medicare have to do with "tons of working people getting food stamps..."
Medicare, unemployment, food stamps, etc are all part of the much hated by your side social safety net.

Lots of working people on food stamps includes people in places like Walmart which coaches their employees how to do it rather than pay a living wage. I heard the military has people on food stamps too.

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post #62 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 09:12 PM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Obama destroyed coal jobs?

It's not like I can't see the Appalachian mountains from my backyard

What killed coal jobs was cheap natural gas and increased productivity, and reduced demand for coal / dropping prices.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php..._United_States

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post #63 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 09:17 PM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

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Medicare, unemployment, food stamps, etc are all part of the much hated by your side social safety net.

Lots of working people on food stamps includes people in places like Walmart which coaches their employees how to do it rather than pay a living wage. I heard the military has people on food stamps too.
Thanks for more anecdotes. But again, can we ask what the relevance is? You're talking to people looking at facts, figures and logic.

Nobody hates safety nets for those who really need it. The questions are whether the existing system is being abused, whether the amount of aid provided is excessive, and who is abusing the system. We've answered all these.

The system works very effectively for buying votes and creating a permanent class of dependent people.
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post #64 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 09:38 PM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

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Originally Posted by john117 View Post
your side
“Your Side”: That’s a typical way of using a label to dismiss what a person says. Are you really that lazy that you have resort such nonsense?

I don’t have a side. I agree with somethings that democrats/liberals support and agree with some things that republicans/conservatives support. And I really dislike other things that each support.

I actually have a mind of my own. I do a lot of reading many sources and use my own head.

What really bothers me about these sorts of discussions these days is that people are being antagonistic to others, as you are to me here, because they might disagree on some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john117 View Post
Medicare, unemployment, food stamps, etc are all part of the much hated by your side social safety net.
I have no issue with social safety nets as long as they are managed well and actually help people. I think that they are essential in a society.

Medicare and social security are very different than food stamps, Medicaid and welfare because of the source of the funds. They are apples and oranges.

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Lots of working people on food stamps includes people in places like Walmart which coaches their employees how to do it rather than pay a living wage. I heard the military has people on food stamps too.
Did I ever say that there are no working people on food stamps, welfare and Medicaid? NOPE. I know that there are. It’s a horrible statement on what has happened to our country economically. We have congress (both parties), our presidents and our judicial system to thank for the destruction of the middle class in this country.
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post #65 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 09:54 PM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

I'm antagonistic? Epic LOLZ. Here's some more anecdotes for your amusement:

https://www.thenation.com/article/wa...n-food-stamps/

https://www.google.com/amp/www.ibtim...300713%3famp=1

https://www.google.com/amp/www.marke...rn-food-stamps

Look, I'm not stupid. I make a ton of money, the Mrs does too. We pay a lot in taxes. I know there's SNAP fraud. But if the GOP has their way and starts to kill the social net as they promise to do (I keep getting gleeful ads to support killing of the ACA here on TAM lolz), things will turn ugly in a hurry.

We as a country are better than that. We ought to be setting the example for the world to follow. Instead... It's all about money and national paranoia.
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post #66 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 10:41 PM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

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Originally Posted by katiecrna View Post
I hear all the time, complaints about the poor lazy people who live off of us and I don't want my taxes going to them while they use their food stamps and buy cigarettes and Taco Bell blah blah blah.
I always defend them, and I always believe in helping the poor.
BUT I am blow away at the 2 articles I just read about what food stamps can and can't buy.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.daily...h-food-stamps/

10 Things You Can't Buy With Food Stamps | The Huffington Post

Here is the summary:

11 things you can buy with food stamps:
1. Taco Bell
2. Bail money
3. Lingerie
4. KFC
5. Shoes
6. Strip clubs
7. Lobster
8. Starbucks
9. Cash
10. K-cups
11. Cupcakes

What the heck? Why is this ok??? We are setting up these people to be unhealthy and be hated by us but it's not their fault! It's the government.
Ever heard of propaganda? How about this... go into a KFC and strip club and ask them if they take EBT? Guess what, no. EBT (Food Stamps) only allows you to buy FOOD>
They only work in most grocery stores that have the requirements for SNAP. So places like 7-11 will not work... which is a waste of money.

Do you know what most people buy with food stamps? FOOD.
So 1~9 = fake. They are not food. You cannot buy toilet paper with SNAP.
#7 is a food, rare would anyone buy it because you're buying one meal for the price of 5 meals.
K-cups... likely, but its a waste of money. But its a food, like coffee. Cupcakes... its a food.

The avg. elderly American who gets about $1000~1200 a month from SSA may get about $90 a month on SNAP. Think about that... eating only $25 worth of food.

So in other words.... fake news.

Lets put this in perspective. The cost per year for NSA security for Melania trump in NYC so she doesn't have to live with her husband will costs $300 million a year.
That amounts to 30,000 Americans eating FOOD for a year. Where should our tax dollars go to? Feeding American elder, disabled adults and children or a "billionaire" immigrant?

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post #67 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-19-2017, 10:57 PM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Also... the people who have the skills to dig underground which is a crappy job with crappy benefits and will end your life early for the rich.... that same guy could be on a roof-top on a house installing solar panels for the same amount of money or more... and he's NOT UNDER GROUND!

There are more jobs in the GROWING solar and wind-farm industry than coal. Even China and Saudi Arabia know that oil and coal is a dying market.

Lets get out a calculator. Dig coal, hire thousands of workers to dig, build-up tunnels or strip-mine a mountain... which creates pollution which with this new russian administration = more pollution that YOU and ME will have to pay for IF the mess is cleaned up at all... which may result in the death of fishing and fresh water which people and animals need for our communities, our farms etc.
Then you have to use HEAVY equipment to dig, move, and transport those materials - tanker trucks or trains or pipelines. Then you must run those carbon materials through processing or power plants to convert into usable energy. That process and the use of cars also generate pollution that has to go somewhere.

Now, lets take solar or wind-power. In which they can use the windows of BUILDINGS to collect power as well as solar-powered roof tiles that look very much like normal ceramic roof files.
Okay, you pay a growing company (rather than a few super-rich oil / gas / coal companies) to buy and install the hardware... eventually, maybe every home will have a Tesla battery pack.
There is no need to convert and then transport the power to YOUR home. Its your power. It pays for itself. You don't have to constantly drill and dig for it. Oil wells and coal mines eventually run dry... then you gotta drill again. It costs about $500,000 to drill a new hole. It costs about $5 million to drill a new hole in the ocean - and hope there is no blow-out, if there is oil.

Meanwhile - there is the sun and the wind, always there to make POWER for your home and your car. It pays for itself. You're not giving your money to billionaires. So lets put things on their head... think about it "Renewable energy is a business propaganda to make money" that is repeated by various outlets.

Think about it... Okay, then where do you get your power/gas from? Hmmmm... another business. Exxon/mobile , BP and others. They are multi-billion dollar industries and they want to keep it that way, at any cost - even if it kills you and your kids.

Having solar power cells on your home = YOU are pocketing your money, and not David Koch or Exxon or coal company etc.

(But what bout cloudy days and night) - you can put power on the grid (you get PAID for your power) and you pay to use power you need from the grid... or you have a battery pack that stores the power and charges your car.

I'd rather spend my money on growing small companies that are going to HELP the enviroment which means the future of my kids and grandkids... than big oil, which doesn't give a **** about any of us little people.

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post #68 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 07:48 AM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

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Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
What does Medicare have to do with "tons of working people getting food stamps..."
While I saw the exchange between the two, I will answer this question, too. Medicare has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with "tons of working people getting food stamps". Medicare is tied to SOCIAL SECURITY (for those who do not understand the difference between MediCARE and MediCAID). Medicaid is available through Department of Human Services. Medicaid is available to LOW INCOME people, if they qualify. Medicare is avaliable to those on Social Security benefits, whether retirement or disability. Unfortunately, as evidenced in this thread, as well as other places, too many people place ALL of them into the same category: food stamps, welfare, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security... They don't see any difference with any of them.

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post #69 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Can I just say that I was surprised to see what was on that list. I am all about social welfare. I am all about government assisted programs. I brought up food stamps to have a conversation about them, to learn about them. I am all about helping the poor.

I feel like I can't bring up anything without being attacked or people getting angry. Relax people I'm not the enemy.
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post #70 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

All I'm saying is that we should be helping people help themselves. Especially if it's our tax dollars that are paying for it. I get that people don't want a big controlling government to tell them what to do, but I believe that a lot of these people don't know how to make the best choices. Like the saying goes... they are not only poor in money, they are poor in education and health too.

It seems like we give them a rope to help themselves and their are unknowingly tying it around their neck. I understand that this isn't always the case, but I have seen a lot of these cases before. And like I said before... it's their kids that I care and worry about.

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post #71 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 09:04 AM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

If you think Medicare is not related to other aspects of the social safety net ask a Republican like Mitch McConnell or Paul Ryan what their end game plan is for any and all parts of said safety net.

Keep believing, meanwhile, that things will be fixed surgically while the safety net stays whole.
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post #72 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 09:36 AM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

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Originally Posted by katiecrna View Post
All I'm saying is that we should be helping people help themselves. Especially if it's our tax dollars that are paying for it. I get that people don't want a big controlling government to tell them what to do, but I believe that a lot of these people don't know how to make the best choices. Like the saying goes... they are not only poor in money, they are poor in education and health too.

It seems like we give them a rope to help themselves and their are unknowingly tying it around their neck. I understand that this isn't always the case, but I have seen a lot of these cases before. And like I said before... it's their kids that I care and worry about.
I'm sorry, people need to take responsibility for themselves. That includes good choices. Your good choices my not be another's good choice. Further, it will be said that giving a person tax dollars in the form of welfare it is against their rights to spend it as they like and being told how to spend it. Perhaps parenting classes if the concern is about the kids. But again, this would be forcing others to adhere to parenting as seen as correct by the government.

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post #73 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 10:01 AM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

At least in the UK healthy foods are not always easily available.

I was doing some grocery shopping for my mother at the local Co-Op (co-operative) shop and they had no fresh vegetables or fresh fruit of any kind.

I would guess that this situation probably exists in some places in the USA, too?

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post #74 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 10:30 AM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

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Originally Posted by TaDor View Post
Ever heard of propaganda? How about this... go into a KFC and strip club and ask them if they take EBT? Guess what, no. EBT (Food Stamps) only allows you to buy FOOD>
They only work in most grocery stores that have the requirements for SNAP. So places like 7-11 will not work... which is a waste of money.

Do you know what most people buy with food stamps? FOOD.
So 1~9 = fake. They are not food. You cannot buy toilet paper with SNAP.
#7 is a food, rare would anyone buy it because you're buying one meal for the price of 5 meals.
K-cups... likely, but its a waste of money. But its a food, like coffee. Cupcakes... its a food.

The avg. elderly American who gets about $1000~1200 a month from SSA may get about $90 a month on SNAP. Think about that... eating only $25 worth of food.

So in other words.... fake news.
I posted some stuff about this earlier. There are a few fast food places that are authorized to take EBT, Tabo Bell is one of them. The reason is that some people have no place to cook food. There are places in this country that don't have grocery stores that are easy to get to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaDor View Post
Lets put this in perspective. The cost per year for NSA security for Melania trump in NYC so she doesn't have to live with her husband will costs $300 million a year.

That amounts to 30,000 Americans eating FOOD for a year. Where should our tax dollars go to? Feeding American elder, disabled adults and children or a "billionaire" immigrant?
While I think this is nuts, at least it is creating job. And those who are earning the money are spending it in their local stores, so that creates more jobs.
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post #75 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 10:44 AM
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Re: Government keeping poor people poor

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Originally Posted by katiecrna View Post
Can I just say that I was surprised to see what was on that list. I am all about social welfare. I am all about government assisted programs. I brought up food stamps to have a conversation about them, to learn about them. I am all about helping the poor.

I feel like I can't bring up anything without being attacked or people getting angry. Relax people I'm not the enemy.
NO one is attacking you. But people are discussing what you posted. And the article you posted is not correct.

Have you been reading the replies to this thread that have listed what a person can buy using EBT supplemental food money (food stamps)? The list you posted is WRONG.

The following can be purchased on food stamps (EBT):

1. Taco Bell <--
4. KFC <-- Some places allow using EBT as a few fast food places. I posted a link that explains why and the reason makes sense (for example homeless people who have no place to cook food.

7. Lobster <-- lobster is food. When a person is getting $90 a month in EBT, believe me they are not buying a lot of Lobster. But if they found it at a good price (it is cheap in some coastal locations) then they can buy it.

10. K-cups <-- it's food--coffee. But again on $90 a month, I doubt al lot of people are spending their money on this.

11. Cupcakes <-- again this is food. Some kid has a birthday and their mom spends $2.50 on a few cupcakes for the birthday. Is that really so terrible?


The following CAN NOT be purchased on food stamps (EBT):
2. Bail money <-- cannot take cash out of supplemental food funds
5. Shoes <-- not food, cannot take cash out of supplemental food funds
6. Strip clubs <-- not food, cannot take cash out of supplemental food funds
8. Starbucks <-- not food, cannot take cash out of supplemental food funds
9. Cash <-- not food, cannot take cash out of supplemental food funds

The article you quoted is WRONG
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