Government keeping poor people poor - Page 8 - Talk About Marriage
The Social Spot Talk About Whatever.

User Tag List

 117Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #106 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 09:22 AM
Member
 
2ntnuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 13,997
Re: Government keeping poor people poor






https://www.wired.com/2014/01/marcel...oject/#slide-1


"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
2ntnuf is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #107 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 09:42 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,335
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

I don't think its clean vs dirty coal. I think over the next few decades we will see mostly renewables, solar and wind. Not because they are environmentally better but because with mass production they are becoming overall cheaper than fossil fuels. Storage and transport remains a serious problem but there is a lot of money going onto those.

There will still be a lot of fossil in the mix but I don't see coal being cost competitive with natural gas in the long run.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruthHurts View Post
@john117 gas fired plants were typically referred to as peaker units because they could be fired up cheaply to satisfy peak demand. Typically they were gas powered turbines - exactly like airplane engines - providing peak capacity and easily and quickly brought up.

Gas prices were traditionally higher than coal so these plants served to satisfy peak consumption only and were therefore limited in availability.

With the erosion of natural gas prices these units became increasingly popular, however they can not compete with the MW output of traditional coal burning plants in many parts of the country. And frankly it's about output.

Nuclear power can definitely compete from a power standpoint but there are regulatory and social hurdles to that.

So frankly the debate is clean vs dirty coal, and then downplay the outcome because both are increasingly socially unacceptable but necessary


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
uhtred is offline  
post #108 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 10:42 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,494
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
I don't think its clean vs dirty coal. I think over the next few decades we will see mostly renewables, solar and wind. Not because they are environmentally better but because with mass production they are becoming overall cheaper than fossil fuels. Storage and transport remains a serious problem but there is a lot of money going onto those.

There will still be a lot of fossil in the mix but I don't see coal being cost competitive with natural gas in the long run.
Over in Europe,any electricity produced by natural methods,solar,wind,water etc has by law to be bought by the country's power company and transmitted on the national electricity grid.This means that there are a lot of windmills anywhere there is high ground.Some people call them a blot on the landscape but if they are far enough away from populated areas I would have no problem with them.
Andy1001 is offline  
 
post #109 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:10 PM
Member
 
2ntnuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 13,997
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

how about the devastation to bird populations? Windmills wreak havoc on birds. I guess they are bird brains? bahahahaha

I've seen them in PA. They are huuuuuge. They don't dot the horizon. They dominate it. They aren't just positioned one here and one there. They are in lines and offset so as not to block or make turbulent each mill's wind. That's a lot...I mean a huge area of land to separate them.

The commercial ones are not some little cute home style favorite decorated with perennials and annuals. No, sorry.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
2ntnuf is offline  
post #110 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:18 PM
Member
 
IMFarAboveRubies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 1,494
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucy999 View Post
I absolutely cringe at the thought of the government delegating only healthy food to be available on food stamps. How many kids would actually eat it? Yeah yeah I know, it's all about how we raise them , fostering good food choices, but there are those who are barely scraping by with money and precious time.
If the parent(s) fill the fridge with healthy foods, eventually the children will get hungry enough to eat it. No, they will not starve rather than eating healthy food.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucy999 View Post
Not to mention, sadly, fresh produce and healthier options are so much more expensive.
That is not a true statement. Our family eats on a $4 per person per day food budget. We eat very well, and our fridge and cupboards are always full. I buy a week's worth of veggies and fruits at our local "Sprouts" store, on Wednesday, when the sale flyers from the previous and coming week are honored. My highest bill has been $50, and it is usually lower than that...for 5 people. We cook from scratch, eat veggies, grains, beans, and shop various stores for meat sales. Our meat budget is included in the $4 per person per day, and we shoot for meat that costs under $2 per pound, which means we buy meats only when they are on sale. The exceptions are 90% lean ground beef and the occasional roast, which we purchase for under $4 per pound when it is on sale. I cut divide them into portions and freeze them.

We buy expensive brands of bread for half price from the day-old shelves, and freeze it, and it tastes great when thawed.

Our children know how to cook, as well as how to read a cookbook. We have several cookbooks on grains and legumes. They are proud of cooking a delicious meal for the family. We grow basil, parsley and rosemary in pots sitting on window ledges to save $ and have them fresh when we need them.

To stay on $4 a day per person food budget, we have eliminated most pre-packaged foods, except for frozen veggies and cheese, and the occasional treat (ice cream) and cook everything from scratch. Maccaroni is not healthy, and is actually expensive, when you look at the amount you get, and its vitamin content.

I've just started making my own yogurt, without a yogurt maker, and that will save us more $. I'm teaching the children how to do it, so they will be able to make it too.

Below is a free cookbook (pdf) on eating for $4 a day, that the government funded for people on foodstamps. It is a starting place for people who don't know how to cook economically and deliciously. There is really no excuse for adults to not cook, especially if they are unemployed. In addition, teaching children how to cook helps them learn how to enjoy eating various foods.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...good-and-cheap

Perhaps a requirement for getting food stamps should be taking a series government funded courses in cooking from scratch. That would not only be fun, but it would be "teaching a man to fish, rather than giving him a fish."

Last edited by IMFarAboveRubies; 02-25-2017 at 12:26 PM.
IMFarAboveRubies is offline  
post #111 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:20 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,494
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
how about the devastation to bird populations? Windmills wreak havoc on birds. I guess they are bird brains? bahahahaha

I've seen them in PA. They are huuuuuge. They don't dot the horizon. They dominate it. They aren't just positioned one here and one there. They are in lines and offset so as not to block or make turbulent each mill's wind. That's a lot...I mean a huge area of land to separate them.

The commercial ones are not some little cute home style favorite decorated with perennials and annuals. No, sorry.
Of course they are lots of them,that's why they are called wind farms.
Andy1001 is offline  
post #112 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:27 PM
Member
 
2ntnuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 13,997
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy1001 View Post
Of course they are lots of them,that's why they are called wind farms.

Of course.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
2ntnuf is offline  
post #113 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:29 PM
Member
 
lucy999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brownbackistan
Posts: 1,823
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMFarAboveRubies View Post
If the parent(s) fill the fridge with healthy foods, eventually the children will get hungry enough to eat it. No, they will not starve rather than eating healthy food.



That is not a true statement. Our family eats on a $4 per person per day food budget. We eat very well, and our fridge and cupboards are always full. I buy a week's worth of veggies and fruits at our local "Sprouts" store, on Wednesday, when the sale flyers from the previous and coming week are honored. My highest bill has been $50, and it is usually lower than that...for 5 people. We cook from scratch, eat veggies, grains, beans, and shop various stores for meat sales. Our meat budget is included in the $4 per person per day, and we shoot for meat that costs under $2 per pound, which means we buy meats only when they are on sale. The exceptions are 90% lean ground beef and the occasional roast, which we purchase for under $4 per pound when it is on sale. I cut divide them into portions and freeze them.

We buy expensive brands of bread for half price from the day-old shelves, and freeze it, and it tastes great when thawed.

Our children know how to cook, as well as how to read a cookbook. We have several cookbooks on grains and legumes. They are proud of cooking a delicious meal for the family. We grow basil, parsley and rosemary in pots sitting on window ledges to save $ and have them fresh when we need them.

To stay on $4 a day per person food budget, we have eliminated most pre-packaged foods, except for frozen veggies and cheese, and the occasional treat (ice cream) and cook everything from scratch. Maccaroni is not healthy, and is actually expensive, when you look at the amount you get, and its vitamin content.

I've just started making my own yogurt, without a yogurt maker, and that will save us more $. I'm teaching the children how to do it, so they will be able to make it too.

Below is a free cookbook (pdf) on eating for $4 a day, that the government funded for people on foodstamps. It is a starting place for people who don't know how to cook economically and deliciously. There is really no excuse for adults to not cook, especially if they are unemployed. In addition, teaching children how to cook helps them learn how to enjoy eating various foods.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...good-and-cheap

Perhaps a requirement for getting food stamps should be taking a series government funded courses in cooking from scratch. That would not only be fun, but it would be "teaching a man to fish, rather than giving him a fish."
I wholeheartedly agree with you on all points in your first paragraph. And the fact that eating healthy is far more expensive is true where i live. Maybe not for you, but here its definitely true.

I would welcome some mandated classes on healthy eating, but i would also welcome mandated child care classes for those who have children and receive government assistance . But thats for another thread, i guess.

Eta: i think you're doing a great job feeding your family. They're learning life skills along with you. But unfortunately, not everyone has the luxury to do all of what you6re doing.

Last edited by lucy999; 02-25-2017 at 12:35 PM.
lucy999 is offline  
post #114 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:43 PM
Member
 
IMFarAboveRubies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 1,494
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucy999 View Post
I

Eta: i think you're doing a great job feeding your family. They're learning life skills along with you. But unfortunately, not everyone has the luxury to do all of what you6re doing.
It is not a luxury, it is a necessity. If we want to eat, we have to cook.

It also takes effort to call a child who would rather play or read, to come and help me in the kitchen. There still are a lot of long faces and moans, and "disappearing children" before and during food preparation. After years of "forcing" the children to help out in the kitchen, they now know how to cook. Even our son cooks, because I was not sexist about it.

I would be lying though if I led anyone to believe that the children are fighting over who gets to cook dinner, as they look at it as "work," which it is. LOL
IMFarAboveRubies is offline  
post #115 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 12:47 PM
Member
 
lucy999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brownbackistan
Posts: 1,823
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMFarAboveRubies View Post
It is not a luxury, it is a necessity. If we want to eat, we have to cook.

It also takes effort to call a child who would rather play or read, to come and help me in the kitchen. There still are a lot of long faces and moans, and "disappearing children" before and during food preparation. After years of "forcing" the children to help out in the kitchen, they now know how to cook. Even our son cooks, because I was not sexist about it.

I would be lying though if I led anyone to believe that the children are fighting over who gets to cook dinner, as they look at it as "work," which it is. LOL
Sure, I get that for you its a necessity. And i can appreciate that.

I'm specifically thinking of my friends who are single mothers. Their lives are harried and complicated and hard. They're burning the candle at both ends, holding down multiple jobs. So when I say that time is a luxury, it certainly is for the people in my life.

It is easier for them to have semi packaged Foods, or instant Foods to feed their children. I will reiterate as I did in my beginning post, I'm not saying it is right. It just is.

lucy999 is offline  
post #116 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 01:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,494
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMFarAboveRubies View Post
It is not a luxury, it is a necessity. If we want to eat, we have to cook.

It also takes effort to call a child who would rather play or read, to come and help me in the kitchen. There still are a lot of long faces and moans, and "disappearing children" before and during food preparation. After years of "forcing" the children to help out in the kitchen, they now know how to cook. Even our son cooks, because I was not sexist about it.

I would be lying though if I led anyone to believe that the children are fighting over who gets to cook dinner, as they look at it as "work," which it is. LOL
When I was young the school I went to was very progressive in it's curriculum.Everybody tried every subject,the girls tried woodwork and metalwork,the boys tried cooking and basic home economics such as sewing on buttons and using an iron and washing machine.I was living on my own at sixteen and was very glad to be able to cook basic meals from scratch.
Also I found out that girls love when someone cooks for them but that's a different story.lol.
Andy1001 is offline  
post #117 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 04:50 PM
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 5,500
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
Here is what I do. Built row covers (or mini-hoop houses) on my grow beds and cover them with frost cloth and/or green house plastic. The frames for a 4ft x 14ft row cost me $13.. the cover is about $32. When the weather gets low (down to -15 degrees) I have c9 Christmas tree lights in the tunnel. I have 3 of these grow beds in the part of the garden that I use 12 months a year.

I have more greens than the 3 of us can eat 12 months a year. I'm now looking at donating the excess to a local food bank.
Stop telling people how to avoid dependency! That's just playing into Trump's hands!

Always remember the LD motto: "Sex isn't important!!!"
tech-novelist is offline  
post #118 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 08:37 PM
Member
 
2ntnuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 13,997
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
Here is what I do. Built row covers (or mini-hoop houses) on my grow beds and cover them with frost cloth and/or green house plastic. The frames for a 4ft x 14ft row cost me $13.. the cover is about $32. When the weather gets low (down to -15 degrees) I have c9 Christmas tree lights in the tunnel. I have 3 of these grow beds in the part of the garden that I use 12 months a year.

I have more greens than the 3 of us can eat 12 months a year. I'm now looking at donating the excess to a local food bank.
This is a great idea. I'm not sure I'm allowed to do it where I live. It's a sort of condo, but it isn't. I can't explain because I don't understand it.

My back yard is something like 12 feet wide and 14 feet long. One of those would be massive for me. Two would take up the usable space. It's all grass.

My back yard just happens to be on the street side. All of my neighbors call it the front, even though it is technically not. They make it look nice with flowers and things.

I'd have to ask the board of directors if it is allowed. I will check on this. I have wanted my own tomatoes and greens in the summer, even though they are cheap then. It's nice to eat what you grow.

In the winter, it would be fantastic to have fresh vegetables. I could maybe even run one the opposite direction, or across the yard and it wouldn't be as cumbersome in appearance. I'd have to put in an outdoor receptacle, too. I've wanted two of them and a fan on the ceiling of my porch for some time. I can do all of those myself. We'll see. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Thank you and sorry I did not see it until it was quoted.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
2ntnuf is offline  
post #119 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 12:33 PM
Member
 
SimplyAmorous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 13,856
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy1001 View Post
Maybe it's a person looking in from the outside that sees things clearly.I'm not in any position to argue about the merits of food stamps or welfare payments,I'm one of the people who will make money if taxes are cut by reducing the amount of people who get welfare of one type or another.It doesn't mean I think it's a good idea.
I don't like Trump or any of the crap he comes out with.I don't like Hilary or any of the lying or truth economics she seems to thrive on.These two politicians were what were offered to the American people as presidential candidates and one of them had to win.They owe a lot of people favours and they have to be repaid one way or another.The democrat supporters on tam can insult the republicans and vice versa,but you know what,it doesn't matter a damn.What runs America is vested interests,politicians who are owned by big contributors to their party will do as they are told.Anyone on tam who think the Walton family give a damn that their employees need food stamps to survive need a reality check.It is a race to the bottom and we seem to be moving the finishing line closer by the week.
I REALLY appreciate those who "get this"...at least acknowledge that many of these billionaire CEO's could be treating their employees with some dignity, respect... daring to go against the grain , be an example and pay a living wage to their employees while their multi Billion/ trillion company is Prospering & flourishing .... But no.. it's the American way... cut, slash workers, strip their benefits, take their jobs over seas even - use slave labor, then blame them, shame them for accepting some Government help!...

Ya know.. I will not begrudge anyone on food stamps.. I know a # of hard working people who work full time jobs and still quality for food stamps, reduced lunches for their kids, heating assistance...people are struggling... It hit me hard here, on one Political thread.. I mistakenly thought it was just those who are lazy, non working that others judge so harshly and want to shame ... but it seems there are just as many who feel even if you are working for a living, shame on you if you don't have a higher paying job, too bad.. You deserve what you get.. if you can't afford Health care.. so be it.. DIE...

I won't look at people like that.. I would shame a liar, those who cheat the system, the lazy, won't work...but not the WORKING POOR...

My own opinion (and more in line with the thread topic- sorry!)...I do think some things shouldn't be allowed on Food stamps... like limiting Junk food, pop, candy even...heated prepared foods, Cakes, cookies in the bakery department.. all of those things are more expensive and can easily be Baked at home for less than half the cost (this having the tax payer in mind)...

Recently I started buying a few books to educate myself ....I want to understand how we got to this place (back to the Mega Wealthy Sam Walton's.....some law was passed in the 1970's to greatly shift Interest/ Power to the Corporate world....

This letter was mentioned in one of the books, in frustration over a solid business opposition to a Labor Bill shot down : 1978 Letter from Douglas Fraser Resigning from the Labor-Management Group... Douglas said: " I believe leaders of the Business community with few exceptions, have chosen to wage a one sided class war today in this country, a war against working people, the unemployed, the poor and even many in the middle class of our society"..

So yeah.. I want to understand the Why's, the Political forces we've blindly voted for, the Laws handed down that favor Corporate interests but have little to none for the working poor...creating this ever growing "Wealth Gap" sucking the middle class down along with us.... these books are huge, I don't know if I will ever get some of them... .

The Price of Inequality: How Today's Divided Society Endangers Our Future

Who Stole the American Dream?

Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right

The People vs Greed: Stealing America: Main Street vs Wall Street: The Continued Erosion of Ethics in Our Professions, Business and Government

Affluence and Influence: Economic Inequality and Political Power in America

Infectious Greed: How Deceit and Risk Corrupted the Financial Markets

...

SimplyAmorous is offline  
post #120 of 120 (permalink) Old 02-26-2017, 01:22 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,494
Re: Government keeping poor people poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous View Post
I REALLY appreciate those who "get this"...at least acknowledge that many of these billionaire CEO's could be treating their employees with some dignity, respect... daring to go against the grain , be an example and pay a living wage to their employees while their multi Billion/ trillion company is Prospering & flourishing .... But no.. it's the American way... cut, slash workers, strip their benefits, take their jobs over seas even - use slave labor, then blame them, shame them for accepting some Government help!...

Ya know.. I will not begrudge anyone on food stamps.. I know a # of hard working people who work full time jobs and still quality for food stamps, reduced lunches for their kids, heating assistance...people are struggling... It hit me hard here, on one Political thread.. I mistakenly thought it was just those who are lazy, non working that others judge so harshly and want to shame ... but it seems there are just as many who feel even if you are working for a living, shame on you if you don't have a higher paying job, too bad.. You deserve what you get.. if you can't afford Health care.. so be it.. DIE...

I won't look at people like that.. I would shame a liar, those who cheat the system, the lazy, won't work...but not the WORKING POOR...

My own opinion (and more in line with the thread topic- sorry!)...I do think some things shouldn't be allowed on Food stamps... like limiting Junk food, pop, candy even...heated prepared foods, Cakes, cookies in the bakery department.. all of those things are more expensive and can easily be Baked at home for less than half the cost (this having the tax payer in mind)...

Recently I started buying a few books to educate myself ....I want to understand how we got to this place (back to the Mega Wealthy Sam Walton's.....some law was passed in the 1970's to greatly shift Interest/ Power to the Corporate world....

This letter was mentioned in one of the books, in frustration over a solid business opposition to a Labor Bill shot down : 1978 Letter from Douglas Fraser Resigning from the Labor-Management Group... Douglas said: " I believe leaders of the Business community with few exceptions, have chosen to wage a one sided class war today in this country, a war against working people, the unemployed, the poor and even many in the middle class of our society"..

So yeah.. I want to understand the Why's, the Political forces we've blindly voted for, the Laws handed down that favor Corporate interests but have little to none for the working poor...creating this ever growing "Wealth Gap" sucking the middle class down along with us.... these books are huge, I don't know if I will ever get some of them... .

The Price of Inequality: How Today's Divided Society Endangers Our Future

Who Stole the American Dream?

Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right

The People vs Greed: Stealing America: Main Street vs Wall Street: The Continued Erosion of Ethics in Our Professions, Business and Government

Affluence and Influence: Economic Inequality and Political Power in America

Infectious Greed: How Deceit and Risk Corrupted the Financial Markets

...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dttG9aIa9RQ
There is a story about three men, a billionaire,an ordinary American joe and an emigrant in a room with ten loaves of bread.
The billionaire takes nine loaves then says to the ordinary joe"watch out,the emigrant is trying to steal your bread"
Andy1001 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wife still keeping things from me bhk2000 Coping with Infidelity 56 04-05-2017 01:40 AM
Been keeping it under control,I have Rheumationd Arthritis katiekr Physical & Mental Health Issues 2 12-04-2016 09:01 AM
Keeping gifts from past relationships Keke24 General Relationship Discussion 37 09-05-2016 02:12 PM
Tips for Keeping the Passion Alive in Your Marriage VS Glen Home Page Feature News 1 04-17-2016 04:28 PM
Keeping a secret... Dawnmrlg24 General Relationship Discussion 96 03-09-2016 02:48 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome