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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Public school proposal

A school district in my state has proposed a plan for students in high school. Since most every child in that age group are very familiar with phones / computers, and many have issues with getting enough required sleep, the district wants to try this....

Three block classes, 10AM-4PM. The one remaining class will be "on-line." Of course no math, science, english would be on-line.

Any thoughts on this?


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C-Never make the person in your present pay for the sins committed by people from your past
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 01:43 PM
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Re: Public school proposal

Worth giving it a go.

Schools in the UK are often 9 til 3 or 3.30.

Some start at 8.30.

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Public school proposal

My HS was 830 to 330. It was HARD waking up those three years. Add a P/T job and it's much harder.

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 05:28 PM
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Re: Public school proposal

I would think that could make it difficult for any parent who works and has to drop off a kid at school. Other than that, my kids would love it. My kids' school goes longer than most, they go from 8am until 4pm, but they get more days off throughout the year.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 06:31 PM
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Re: Public school proposal

Hard on the parents. The kids aren't getting enough sleep because of the tremendous amount of homework that is assigned. They need to cut down on that.

When I lived in Dallas in the sixties, my hours were 8-4. Thought I'd died and gone to heaven when we moved to California and it was 8:30 -3:00.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 06:40 PM
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Public school proposal

Our HS day goes from 7:30 am to 2:30 pm. A very long day! And hard to get up that early for many teenagers.

My kids have medical issues and two are in HS... one a senior and the other a freshman. Because of his limitations, my oldest has a modified schedule where he takes his 4 core classes (English, calculus, history and engineering) at school allowing him a later start at 8:30 and an earlier release.
He then takes 2-3 additional online classes through a Virtual High School portal.

There are several advantages to the VHS classes:

1. Since he's sick a lot, he can work on these classes even when not in school.

2. There are real teachers running the classes and grading the work, and they are always available to contact by email.

3. I get weekly emails with his progress and current grade in each class.

4. Since VHS is a nationally available system, there is a much wider variety of classes available, so he's able to take classes that support his college ambitions now... classes that aren't available in school, and are more interesting to him.

5. Last year he had 2 surgeries and missed more school than usual. Through VHS he was able to take a few classes over the summer on his own so that he stayed on track with enough credits for graduation.

6. There's no cost to the family.


Luckily I work from home so all the different drop off/pick up times are annoying, but manageable. Can't wait til he finally gets his driver's license!

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Last edited by heartbroken50; 03-07-2017 at 06:54 PM.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Public school proposal

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Originally Posted by heartbroken50 View Post
Our HS day goes from 7:30 am to 2:30 pm. A very long day! And hard to get up that early for many teenagers.

My kids have medical issues and two are in HS... one a senior and the other a freshman. Because of his limitations, my oldest has a modified schedule where he takes his 4 core classes (English, calculus, history and engineering) at school allowing him a later start at 8:30 and an earlier release.
He then takes 2-3 additional online classes through a Virtual High School portal.

There are several advantages to the VHS classes:

1. Since he's sick a lot, he can work on these classes even when not in school.

2. There are real teachers running the classes and grading the work, and they are always available to contact by email.

3. I get weekly emails with his progress and current grade in each class.

4. Since VHS is a nationally available system, there is a much wider variety of classes available, so he's able to take classes that support his college ambitions now... classes that aren't available in school, and are more interesting to him.

5. Last year he had 2 surgeries and missed more school than usual. Through VHS he was able to take a few classes over the summer on his own so that he stayed on track with enough credits for graduation.

6. There's no cost to the family.


Luckily I work from home so all the different drop off/pick up times are annoying, but manageable. Can't wait til he finally gets his driver's license!

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You sure about that?

A-Every single thing that has ever happened in your life is preparing you for a moment that is yet to come.
B-We know what we are, but know not what we may be
C-Never make the person in your present pay for the sins committed by people from your past
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 12:19 AM
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Re: Public school proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck71 View Post
A school district in my state has proposed a plan for students in high school. Since most every child in that age group are very familiar with phones / computers, and many have issues with getting enough required sleep, the district wants to try this....

Three block classes, 10AM-4PM. The one remaining class will be "on-line." Of course no math, science, english would be on-line.

Any thoughts on this?
Why wouldn't math, science and English be on-line? Some science would need labs. But a lot of these topics could be online. I have a niece and nephew who did their high school completely online. They concentrated heavily in the STEM area. Our school system allows this was a home-school hybrid. The kids who chose this track out perform the traditional high school.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Public school proposal

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Why wouldn't math, science and English be on-line? Some science would need labs. But a lot of these topics could be online. I have a niece and nephew who did their high school completely online. They concentrated heavily in the STEM area. Our school system allows this was a home-school hybrid. The kids who chose this track out perform the traditional high school.
As a firm believer of social interaction and an educator, I usually shy away from on-line classes.

Course that was before a female student at my school was bullied, cyber-bullied and hung herself. She was a "pin-up" girl, sweet, kind to anyone. She was told how fat, ugly, wh0rish she was. "Some guy" led her on, and dumped her when everything came out about her "alleged" activities. The school tried to sweep it under the rug, of course.

When I first started my PhD... I studied several types, the Ted Bundys, Richard Chase, Henry Lee Lucas, etc. Then we hit teen suicide. This was just coming to the forefront. I read what happened to Phoebe Prince almost two years earlier. It took me five times to read the whole backstory. Let's say the paper I was reading was wet.

When I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s we had bullies but that was a couple times a day, at school. You went home. Worst case... they get your # and hang up on you. Soon enough the parents call the phone company and that's easily solved. But it's not that way anymore. They bully kids at school AND when they are not at school, social media. It is now 24/7 bullying. When I grew up, maybe 30-45 minutes.

So today... I am more and more leaning towards OLC. Many kids learn better in that environment. Much less bullying, group stalking. How many people do you really stay in contact with after HS? Maybe a handful... But I cherish my HS years more and more as time passes. Things that happened then, just didn't make sense. As time passed, they did.

Ele.... TN has one of the worst educational systems in the country. 51st in reading. What's that mean.... if Puerto Rico was a state, we'd be 52nd. TN is about 15-20 years behind some states. In the end.... the state wants virtual classrooms where one certified teacher can teach 200 students at once and have 7-8 para-pros. Reason..... lower cost. Certified teachers are slowly being phased out.

If the OLC are in line with state standards and are in sync with colleges they wish to attend, why not? TN recently adopted a EOCT for advanced math, science, english, history, and a few others where you can take an end of year test and receive college credits. Advanced students graduate high school and that Fall, they're already through with most of their junior year of undergrad. TN hasn't had this long. Others states had this 25 years ago... What's that say about TN...

A-Every single thing that has ever happened in your life is preparing you for a moment that is yet to come.
B-We know what we are, but know not what we may be
C-Never make the person in your present pay for the sins committed by people from your past
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 01:27 AM
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Re: Public school proposal

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Originally Posted by Chuck71 View Post
As a firm believer of social interaction and an educator, I usually shy away from on-line classes.
Socialization is important. But, in some schools today the socialization seems to be more important than the school work. Add to that the gangs, drugs, and other crazy stuff. I wonder why schools are not able to control this stuff.

When my kids were in school we had problems, like when some of my step-daughter's class mates bombed (yes bombed) our house because they were angry at her. I could go on, but that little gem gets the idea across.

With my niece and nephew, they got a lot of socialization by being involved in Civil Air Defense and other local organizations that kids attend. Plus our school system does allow home schooled kids to play sports, go on field trips, take a class if they want to. So the home schooled kids are not cut off from the local school system.

It would be a shame for all education to be computer based, I think that learning from teachers who are in the same room is very important. A computer cannot replace the personal experience that a teacher brings to the classroom. But I think that a mix of the two can work very well.

Our school systems in a lot of places in the USA is not working well. I don't get it. We throw a lot of money at education and our kids don't seem to be doing all that well.

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 01:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Public school proposal

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Socialization is important. But, in some schools today the socialization seems to be more important than the school work. Add to that the gangs, drugs, and other crazy stuff. I wonder why schools are not able to control this stuff.

When my kids were in school we had problems, like when some of my step-daughter's class mates bombed (yes bombed) our house because they were angry at her. I could go on, but that little gem gets the idea across.

With my niece and nephew, they got a lot of socialization by being involved in Civil Air Defense and other local organizations that kids attend. Plus our school system does allow home schooled kids to play sports, go on field trips, take a class if they want to. So the home schooled kids are not cut off from the local school system.

It would be a shame for all education to be computer based, I think that learning from teachers who are in the same room is very important. A computer cannot replace the personal experience that a teacher brings to the classroom. But I think that a mix of the two can work very well.

Our school systems in a lot of places in the USA is not working well. I don't get it. We throw a lot of money at education and our kids don't seem to be doing all that well.
I can not agree more on the socialization being more important than the teaching in many schools. I dated a few women with kids in HS, the kids text during class... WTH??? My HS "used" to take phones up after one warning and you would get it at the end of the year. Parent pressure and, yes they caved. I can see my junior high principal telling those parents "where to go"if they tried that with him. But those people.... long gone from education.

Ele.... you have to be from TN to really understand how bad home schooling was in the beginning.... and in some ways, still is. Parents were signing their kids up for it en mass... to baby-sit younger siblings while the parents ran the roads by day or had to nurse a hangover until 11AM. I'm just saying what I saw.

In the right setting, I can see home schooling as a great thing. The DoE wants to pull out a bag of tricks about every five years, at taxpayer expense. By year four it is finally implemented state / nationwide. Couple years pass and it's a new idea. Wash....rinse.....repeat. It takes a full ten years to fully gauge an idea over time, at least.

The teachers I had and the older ones I worked with, knew their craft very well. In my last few years in public schools, I would try to catch a regular ed teacher and ask about my Spec Ed student's progress and if any accommodations / modifications were needed. Most knew what the lesson was to be about but had to Google it to learn how to teach it. I would just SMFH...... it let me know, I had some damn good teachers as a kid.

A-Every single thing that has ever happened in your life is preparing you for a moment that is yet to come.
B-We know what we are, but know not what we may be
C-Never make the person in your present pay for the sins committed by people from your past
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 02:22 AM
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Re: Public school proposal

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I can not agree more on the socialization being more important than the teaching in many schools. I dated a few women with kids in HS, the kids text during class... WTH??? My HS "used" to take phones up after one warning and you would get it at the end of the year. Parent pressure and, yes they caved. I can see my junior high principal telling those parents "where to go"if they tried that with him. But those people.... long gone from education..
There are a lot of problems with the schools here in NM as well. I don't understand why the school system is so bad.

Quote:
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Ele.... you have to be from TN to really understand how bad home schooling was in the beginning.... and in some ways, still is. Parents were signing their kids up for it en mass... to baby-sit younger siblings while the parents ran the roads by day or had to nurse a hangover until 11AM. I'm just saying what I saw.
Oh I get it about the abuse that goes on with home schooling. It can be an excuse for no schooling.

I believe that here a student has to pass the state tests each year in order to stay in home schooling. At least that's what my niece and nephew did.

Years ago (1995) we lived in a small NM town. There was a family there with 6 children. Mom had a new baby. She claimed that she was home schooling. She did not have enough education to be home schooling those children. They were basically not getting any education.

I'm not really a huge advocate for home schooling. I just think that too many of the schools in the USA are failing. We need to look at how to get things back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck71 View Post
In the right setting, I can see home schooling as a great thing. The DoE wants to pull out a bag of tricks about every five years, at taxpayer expense. By year four it is finally implemented state / nationwide. Couple years pass and it's a new idea. Wash....rinse.....repeat. It takes a full ten years to fully gauge an idea over time, at least..
Yep... instead of concentrating on the basics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck71 View Post
The teachers I had and the older ones I worked with, knew their craft very well. In my last few years in public schools, I would try to catch a regular ed teacher and ask about my Spec Ed student's progress and if any accommodations / modifications were needed. Most knew what the lesson was to be about but had to Google it to learn how to teach it. I would just SMFH...... it let me know, I had some damn good teachers as a kid.
I know that the education my children got was no where near what I got.

To be honest I let my son drop out of school in 10th grade. He was not getting anything out of high school. He took his GED. Then went on to college. He's done very well in college. Has BS in applied mathematics and physics, an MS in physics and is working on his PHD. So, I guess I did the right thing.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 08:46 AM
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Re: Public school proposal

I know a lot of families that homeschool due to medical issues. It was actually recommended to me as a way of limiting illness for my kids due to their medical issues.

But I always felt that the social piece was too important to do that, plus I don't feel I'd make a good teacher for them. If trying to help them with homework when they were younger is any indication it would have been a nightmare.

With their illness and attendance challenges, we had a really hard time getting enough support in our old town. Frankly the school just didn't care, and some teachers were downright hostile because having a kid with different needs made them work harder.

They never qualified for IEPs as they have no learning disabilities, but they have always had 504 plans for medical accommodations.

So we moved 4 years ago when oldest son entered HS... to a town with much better schools. It was the best thing we ever did. This year my youngest (middle school) finally got an IEP too so he is finally getting the support he needs and is thriving academically. We have access to VHS classes, and school provided tutors to keep them caught up through illness.

It's made a world of difference. My oldest applied to 6 colleges and has so far been accepted to all 3 he has heard from, including his top choice. I doubt he would have done so well if we hadn't changed towns. IME there is such a difference in the quality of education and teachers from town to town. The disparity is truly awful .

I'm in Massachusetts and standardized testing (MCAS) drives the curriculum in most schools. But there are some towns like ours that offer more and encourage kids to really go after their goals.


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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 09:09 AM
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Re: Public school proposal

not a great idea in my opinion. Kids already have to adjust to not getting umpteen dozen days off as adults, this will just make them used to the work day not starting until late morning. Face it, most will have jobs that start anywhere from 7-9AM as adults.

This is being sold as benefiting the kids, when in reality it is saving the school money for teachers/faculty and utilities by not having to open the campus as long.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 09:15 AM
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Re: Public school proposal

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My HS was 830 to 330. It was HARD waking up those three years. Add a P/T job and it's much harder.
Mine allowed a 0-7 period, 6:30 AM to 4:PM.

I filled all periods my junior year.

My senior year I had met my requirement except for a mandatory CWP that I was mandated to take by the state and asked for a release to work a trades job after my 7:30 AM class ended.

They would not release me.

I then asked to be released for Junior College classes.

They would not release me.

Why?

The money my student FTE brought in.

Running start saved my children from a similar fate.

I applaud any district that thinks outside the box and allows even an attempt at reviewing and changing a schedule for student excellence.
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