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Old 10-27-2008, 03:57 PM   #136 (permalink)
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i have my own beliefs which are important to me and your beliefs are important to you.
i am quite sure it was my H that made it possible with me to have children.
i was lucky , some ppl cant have children and yes ive had a miscarriage to.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:03 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Science is not a person nor a God, Honey.
Science is a denomination for a field of research who investigate all: techniques, livings, both animal, vegetal, and humans, the universe, and try to found out how things work, what cause what and how its build up together.
It found the cause of a disease and a cure for it, it founds what we need and make vitamins pills, it found out machines. hé, is it "it" or is it "humans" here? We are talking about humans and not "it" nor "science". Scientific knowledge is a knowledge and is a tool to acquire more knowledge, used by humans, to understand the world around them, and develop new tools to protect themselves, build houses, and grow food and make machines.
Science is not a religion or philosophy to replace God, Honey. Its a tool to understand the world around us using physical laws who have been investigated, understood, and write down.
Like gravitation and dynamic. They are not created by science, they exist and were observed and understood and explained and laws by which they work were made. By humans.
Like what are the forces in power who does that you stand on the ground and dont fly out in space.
Like what does that your car accelerate and the impact difference there is in a car crashing on a wall at 30 km/h and at 100km/h, and why an object throw from a tall building will hit the ground stronger than if you let it fall form 1 meter high..
Like what your blood is made of, what it needs, what make the blodd flow, how arteries are builded, how they are connected to the heart and how the heart work. How your brain works, how your lungs work.
Science is a word for a field of reseaerch that investigate the world around us and try to found out how things hang together and comes from out of real evidences and facts that can be observed directly or calculated into.
Like the Big Bang, and what was before. How masses came together and exploded into this universe. Why and how it did it and when.
A God can have created all those atoms and cells, planed the Big Bang, and make it into the universe we know. But it doesnt change the fact that humans can investigate it and understand it and are more and more able to come to the origin of it and to can use of what they learn about the universe and about earth and about all what is around us.
Science and scientifical working methods are a tool to investigate the world around us. Not one big paradigme that answer all questions, but one that found new questions and try to answer them as they arises. There is no final answer yet. Only a growing amount of answwers as we discover more and more things about the world around us.
Why should scientifical knwoledge be an anti-God of some sort? Where do you get it from?
Brainwashing in the States?
Thats not how any other countries in the world see it , nor in Canada nor in Europe.
If humans were created by God, then its God that gave us the mind we have to investigagte the world around us and to understand it and then science is a part of Gods creation too.
When you say science, its like if you say engeneering , or medecin, or astronomy, or physic, or agriculture, or geology, or archeology, or biology, or chemistry, only in one word.
Geology is not a God, is it? nor is Ingeneering.
They are tools to investigate something else and to do something out of this knowledge that can help us to buid things to answer to needs we have, prevent catastrophies, protect us and simply understand our earth better than we did.
And i dont see why it should be nailed to the wall as being bad in any way. Its very very good.
Some of scientific discoveries can be abused to create weapons, bio bombs, atom bombs, or making things who are not good at all for us. But so is religion. It can also be abused, put in the wrong hands, to create extremism, and destruction, and to kill others.

But for what religion an dascience goes, the one does not exclude the other.
It isnt because God created the universe that the universe cannot be investigated and understood using scientificals paradigmes and laws, in fact it is already done since long.. or we wont be here talking over the internet as it will not exist at all..
And its not because the different scientifical fields can investigate the earth and livings, and the universe, that it exclude that God created all those things and is behind it all the time.

The 2 things are not mutualy exclusive. In fact they dont have a thing to do with each others, since science is a working tool and God is a concept of a higher Being who is our creator and take care of us.
It will be like comparing corn flakes and a raket landing on the moon, or comparing Jesus with what type of hammer was used to nail him on the cross. It will sound totaly absurd.
And thats how we see it outside the US: as a totaly illogical and absurd comparison, to put God and scientifical knowledge as two opposit ends, and to neglect kids so much as to deprive them of scientifical knowledge and of knowing what science founds out and that they will need later on in their life, as well as in their further education.
Describing how a baby grow inside his mum and how it is born doesnt change the fact that life itself comes from God.
So why be so touchy and scared that a description of Gods work should impair the work od God?
How?!
Where i am from we do not see that. I think that this idea comes from an illogical fear people have in USA only, and who has roots in total ignorance of what science is. The way they use the word clearly show that they never read a book about it and that they never read the definition of the word science, but only have a vague idea of what it is, who is more based on fiction and fears than on reality.

Like saying "Science" instead of naming specific scientifical fields, or instead of talking about "scientifical knowledge, or discoveries" who is more appropriate.
Still all those people got a doc and go to hospital when they are ill asking for science to cure them.. or what they cal "science".. and they all do drive a car who is also a fruit from scienctifical research and build up by science people, who didnt go to creationist schoola nd will not exist if al school were creationist school... and they drive on roads made by ingeneers and bridges and use a fridge made by ingeneers and technicians and involving bigger machines who also were fruit of science and chemical indutry.. and they all got a can opner, and they all got a toilet and use tap water.. directly, also made available by science.. and they all got light and tv and use electricity..also in their churches.. and have books who also need science to be printed and put together, like the Bible for instance..and using huge printers..made by scientists who discovered a way to can print faster and this way made the bible more available to all.. huh.?

So it always stune me when i hear those people talking that they never ever for one second in their life stopped, and thought, but what am i saying? i do use it myself all the time, so cant be that bad..and cant be what i imagine it to be"..


There is no institute of Science, but institute of Sciences.. pluralis, covering the different fields of science meaning of research.

Talking as you do Honey is a kind of primitiv way to look at things.
I think you should get yourself a book call "Science history" and learn about it from the base.
The earth is still round, isnt it?
Its call a scientifical observation, who was first made out of mathematical calculations and then proven in direct observation, when we went out of orbit.
Mathematic is a science, do you deny mathematic? And its use?
Medecin? and its use?
Its a tool to understand created things and how they come into being, like you need a needle as a tool to sew stuff together and make clothes.
Your glasses will never replace your eyes, but you need them to can see clear. They are a tool for your eyes to can se the world around it. As science is a tool for us human and our eye to comprehend the world around us. Without it our sight is blurred and we cannot see clear, scientific discoveries help us see things in a clearer light, it deosnt replace the eyes that see and the mind that comprehend, and it does not impact the thing you see or comprehend. Science do not change the universe by understanding it, it doesnt put a new origin of it to replace God by understanding it, just as your glasses do not change the letters that you read nor the color of your walls. What you do with what you see is what will change your world as what science do with what it understand shape the world around us.
If all kids today where to be teached against science, and into creationism, who will be the doctor who will take care of your grand childrens? Who will be working in hospitals? surgons, nurses?
Who will build and repair bruidges? roads? build houses? who will take care of the central power supplies? who will take care of the air planes?
Mechanic is a science too, who will repair your car? who will build more? who will make cans? who will repair machines packing food and medecin? Who will do research in medecin to can cure people?
Nobody.
We had extreem creationists in middle age who were replaced by the very first philosophers and science men, in an area who was call "The Century of the Lights" or La Renaissance, meaning "The Rebirth".. not for nothing.. it was at the begining of 1600...

Only 340 years later, we were landing the first man on the moon.
Only 290 years later, in 1900, the first exposition of technic and discovery was opening its doors in Paris.
It make you think..
That men were created by God with an innate curiosity to investigate the world around them and understand Gods creation... and use it. If they were made at the image of God it also mean that they are also able to create tools and to create things.
Which they do. So why deny it to us? Isnt it denying Gods plans with us humans to do so?

Dont make us go backward, Honey, thats not part of the solution, but go forward. Ultimately, science will found the physical or scientifical prove of Gods existence, because they do not work at cross purpose with religion, but just try to found new solutions.
In fact, there are very close now to can prove it.
So stop blaming the good guys who make our life so much easier.
They do something real lasting and really useful, not like politicians..
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:04 PM   #138 (permalink)
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i have my own beliefs which are important to me and your beliefs are important to you.
i am quite sure it was my H that made it possible with me to have children.
i was lucky , some ppl cant have children and yes ive had a miscarriage to.
Looks like a religious war is going on here.. well i just gave you both the solution above.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:11 PM   #139 (permalink)
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wow that was amazing ****** . its a whole combination of culminations. like making a cake from scratch , rather than making it from a packet mix, already made.

honey i accept your apology. but we dont need to ridicule eachother, just accept eachother to understand eachother.
more fun that way.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:20 PM   #140 (permalink)
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i have my own beliefs which are important to me and your beliefs are important to you.
i am quite sure it was my H that made it possible with me to have children.
i was lucky , some ppl cant have children and yes ive had a miscarriage to.
God made your husband to give you children, hun. Just like he made you to be able to give birth. Oh, never mind, hun. Everytime I look into my kids eyes..I know it was God that gave them to me. I thank God for my little Angels everyday.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:21 PM   #141 (permalink)
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so ****** which dictionary have you swallowed lately.
looks like the entire collection . lol
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:22 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Well its not Justean, i wrote this becasue there is a very fiery and very serious debate about htis in America, since years, and it is a very serious subject, who concern us all.
It concern millions of family and of chidrens In the USA right now.
I dont think its a funny subject, but i think the solution is more ot be found in simple information.

I didnt wrote about you ansd Honey.. i answered to Honeys claim about Mr Science versus God..

I ageree with you that all we need is to understand each others, thats exactly what i tried and achieved to do in what i wrote. Understanding and making ends reach.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:24 PM   #143 (permalink)
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God made your husband to give you children, hun. Just like he made you to be able to give birth. Oh, never mind, hun. Everytime I look into my kids eyes..I know it was God that gave them to me. I thank God for my little Angels everyday.
and with sincerity, i deeply admire you and your belief. your quote was very personal and it was beautiful.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:24 PM   #144 (permalink)
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God made your husband to give you children, hun. Just like he made you to be able to give birth. Oh, never mind, hun. Everytime I look into my kids eyes..I know it was God that gave them to me. I thank God for my little Angels everyday.

Look what i wrote on the page before, Honey, I think I gave you the answer you needed, and the angle you might have mist all this time.
Its not about whos rigth or wrong, its about taking a different perspective on how you see what science is and its place in Gods plan.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:26 PM   #145 (permalink)
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so ****** which dictionary have you swallowed lately.
looks like the entire collection . lol
i simply use my own logic, knowledge, my own wisdom and my own mind..
If people were better informed, there will be far less problems in the world.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:35 PM   #146 (permalink)
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thats what was meant. making a cake from the start is complex. its not simple, its complicated. i agree with what you say. the issue is a fiery and very serious debate.
but look what happens even in simple discussion, it can quickly escalate to a war of words and so on.
thats why i think my non religion is more calming on me. because i dont have something or someone to have the need to fight for.
i just have to look after my family and me . along with the dog and the horse.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:40 PM   #147 (permalink)
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p.s i buy my cakes ready made. im rubbish at making cakes from scratch. lol
my fav is a bakewell tart or custard tart.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:40 PM   #148 (permalink)
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i agree with you on this, Justean, why looks for problems, when they found us easy enough as it is!

you seems to have a good country life, Justean, thats cool. It must be soothing to can go for a ride on your horse, when things get a bit too hectic at home or at work.

hmm i would like to can do that..
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:42 PM   #149 (permalink)
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and with sincerity, i deeply admire you and your belief. your quote was very personal and it was beautiful.
Thank you !
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:42 PM   #150 (permalink)
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p.s i buy my cakes ready made. im rubbish at making cakes from scratch. lol
my fav is a bakewell tart or custard tart.

Oh, tell me what a bakewell tart is made of and a custard tart. We dont have it here..
I dont bake things myself anymore, cause i dont have the place here, my kitchen is too tiny to do anything as "big" as baking a bread!
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