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post #16 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 10:14 AM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

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Originally Posted by Lionelhutz View Post
On the one hand, I have noticed more a slightly more jaded and cynical tone in the last year. Some people seem to imagine happiness is possible if you simply view most of your relationships in life as disposable. And maybe for the sociopaths and narcissists among us, that is true.

On the other hand, many people keep repeatedly asking how to "fix" their relationships as a form of denial, avoiding the answer they don't want to hear and looking for the cure-all answer they hope exists.

You need BOTH partners working hard to when a relationship is in serious trouble and if that is not the case, it is usually (but not always) an illusion to think you can do it on your own. You just end up extending and increasing the pain for everyone
Yes, I too have noticed a shift towards the jaded and cynical. Mostly from newer members, who refuse to take responsibility for their contributions to the failure of their relationships--or who were cheated on, and now hate all women (or men) because of it.

A life unexamined...

Our OP may fall into such a category. He does make it abundantly clear that it's his ex-wife's fault that he cheated.


~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~

"Either you're interested, or you're not. Fvck yes or no... As in, if it isn't fvck yes for you, leave me the fvck alone. I don't have time for playing games."
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post #17 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 10:20 AM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

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As a senior here and moderator for 8 years there is truth in what he says, however I would never label the forum as toxic. The community has always been divided as to how to deal with a troubled marriage, adultery, sexless relationships.... The pendulum has swung back and forth over the years between dealing with issues with an air of caution or a hardline position. I hope it always does as in general it seems to be self leveling. But most who come here, come during the worst days of their lives, broken, lost, beaten down and searching for anything that might help them solve their burdens, including my self. No matter the circumstances they should be treated with respect if they are here looking for help.

It can be a fine line between tough love and bullying, true empathy and mere wrist patting. It is up to the member in need, to determine the path between those four pillars. To separate the wheat from the chafe and determine the best course to either solve the marital problems or move on with their lives. My advice to all coming here in need is to do that. Look at all the advice give and give it all true consideration, even thou some will cut against the grain of your heart or mind. Once you have determined your strategy follow that direction but be aware, it may not be correct and you may have to reboot it at some point. There are many here with different approaches, theories and backgrounds. There is also a huge amount of sage that should be considered and respected.

Is TAM toxic, hardly. TAM was one of the great sources of information and strength that helped guide me through my darkest days. Surpassed only by my faith. The same forces of TAM were at work back then. Hardliners that told me to expose, kick her to the curb and what not. Others that helped me learn patience and focus on the long game. In the end, once I had determined what I needed to do I paid heed to those that gave me the most support and guidance. The original inner circle of mods. Of the six of us, two were BSs and two were WSs. During a reconciliation that took three and a half years, they provided me with the support I needed and the tough love I needed to here. Also the encouragement to change the strategy when it was necessary, including when I informed her, I was ready to divorce. Had I not found TAM it would be doubtful that my wife and I would be celebrating 32 years together this spring.

My heartfelt thanks to TAM, its members and its focus to help those who find themselves in a place the never thought they'd be. A special shout out to the original inner circle that has all but vanished. Thanks Chris and Jen for the creation of TAM and all your support. And to the original mods who made such a difference for me. M22, Leah, Swede and Drac (RIP).
I couldn't agree more, and I think that your post here is a testament to the TAM community. My marriage didn't survive--it couldn't have, it was too toxic, too dysfunctional--and I don't know how I would have survived that experience if it weren't for TAM and the support of this community. When I had no one else to talk to, people here listened to me, they encouraged me, they advised me, they gave me love when I couldn't find it elsewhere, and for all of that, I will be eternally grateful. I have learned so much--and continue to do so--as a result of my participation in this forum.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~

"Either you're interested, or you're not. Fvck yes or no... As in, if it isn't fvck yes for you, leave me the fvck alone. I don't have time for playing games."
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post #18 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 11:24 AM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

Although I don't necessarily feel TAM Is toxic (I don't participate in any other relationship forums so I can't compare, but the forums I do participate in you always see the same types of personalities), I can to some extent see the OPs POV. I recall when I first joined here there was a thread about sharing passwords and joint finances. I had mentioned that I didn't believe that sharing passwords was 100% necessary nor was having joint accounts (my wife and I have separate accounts) and based on some of the responses you would have thought I was one step away from infidelity lol.

Overall though, my experience here has been very positive, and it is nice to be able to discuss topics that are difficult to discuss otherwise. The biggest challenge for me is to keep coming up with new avatars ...
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post #19 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 11:30 AM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

I have been online since the very early 1980's posting on Usenet then all kinds of forums related to cars, psychology, photography, computers, mental health, my birth country, and of course TAM.

TAM is hardly toxic.

There are a lot of individuals who give advise based on their own personal situation and it's generally biased, as biased as it would be if you got it from your bestie. It's often wrong - it takes a pretty analytical mind to weed out the chaff - but like Consumer Reports if you see the same patterns over and over, it has value.

It's only toxic if you take the suggestions at face value and disregard common sense.

The only warning light I have on TAM is the relatively large number of "happy" posters in "successful" relationships. You see this often in less personal forums (cycling for example) but not as much in personal type forums. Maybe I'm imagining things.

If you take everything TAM to heart yea it can get ugly but if you use the information wisely you should be fine.
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post #20 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 11:31 AM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

There are gross imperfections. There are plenty of posters who give the same advice to everyone regardless of the situation. There are plenty who decide whose fault it is on the basis of their sex. When we split, there were a couple of posters who discussed how it was my fault based on their experience with men which was in no way similar to our situation whatsoever (and yes, just as I had split up and they ranted that I must be insensitive and a bad listener).
However, there was lots of good advice too. And whatever the worst extreme of TAM is, it tends to be far worse elsewhere.
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post #21 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 11:39 AM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

TL;DR:

"I came here looking to be enabled regarding my decision to cheat and instead people were hard on me, so I complained about it and left."

The fact that TAM members are here being introspective while he took his ball and went home is illumination enough.

He's got a tough road ahead for himself, and he's got to stop running away from that at some point.
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post #22 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 12:11 PM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

OP wanted to be considered among the faithful spouses who are just struggling in an otherwise good marriage, when in actuality his and his wife's marriage began as an affair. The fog wore off, and he came here asking for advice.

The advice included the observation that they brought their prior issues from their first marriages into their current marriage. OP didn't like to hear that, and started calling TAMers "toxic."

My husband and I had struggled for 6 years, not making much progress after his adultery. It was only here at TAM where we learned about the resources and concepts that are really making a difference in our marriage. I get as much or more good information from other people's threads as I do my own.

Quigster, keep reading, even if you are no longer a poster.

Last edited by IMFarAboveRubies; 01-29-2016 at 11:13 PM. Reason: grammar
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post #23 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 12:31 PM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

TAM has had a remarkable effect on my marriage and ME!

I've "manned up" and stopped being such a "nice guy".
My understanding of boundaries is now firm and I have the tools to put them in place and enforce.
I've learned how to better communicate to my wife my needs and she in return feels safe to share hers.
I've learned how to deal with my insecurities. I've learned how to confirm suspicions or allay my fears.... and I can confidently say there is nothing for me to be concerned about... and that alone is worth spending hours reading here.

Oh, one more positive, I now know the "cheaters script" and know it will never be played on me without severe consequences.

All this because of TAM.
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post #24 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 12:53 PM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionelhutz View Post
On the one hand, I have noticed more a slightly more jaded and cynical tone in the last year. Some people seem to imagine happiness is possible if you simply view most of your relationships in life as disposable. And maybe for the sociopaths and narcissists among us, that is true.

On the other hand, many people keep repeatedly asking how to "fix" their relationships as a form of denial, avoiding the answer they don't want to hear and looking for the cure-all answer they hope exists.

You need BOTH partners working hard to when a relationship is in serious trouble and if that is not the case, it is usually (but not always) an illusion to think you can do it on your own. You just end up extending and increasing the pain for everyone
MOST relationships in life are disposable, no?
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post #25 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 01:03 PM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

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Originally Posted by IMFarAboveRubies View Post
The advice included the observation that they brought their prior issues from their first marriages into their current marriage. OP didn't like to hear that, and started calling TAMers "toxic."
This happens on most websites. You don't like what you hear and then get upset and say the majority are "toxic." I'm not saying it isn't sometimes cynical, but some people group all comments together and leave out the context.

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post #26 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 01:06 PM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

I think some folks just go on the forums to try to hear what they want to hear.just like a medical doctor, no forum can save everyone. Folks always worry and say that harsh comments drove some away, but I do not think anyone measures how many stay, take the harsh advice, and are spared more heartache.

One suggestion, which would be hard to do, would be to sub forum for BS. As an example, there is a big difference in the tone of advice i would give to a BH who discovered his wife cheating a few days ago as compared to someone who has watched it go on for six months and not done a thing. The first person needs much gentler advice, but four or five pages of " breathe, I'm sorry, exercise, etc" is not what the second person needs.

just my opinion.
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post #27 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 01:12 PM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

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It's only toxic if you take the suggestions at face value and disregard common sense.

If you take everything TAM to heart yea it can get ugly but if you use the information wisely you should be fine.
Couldn't agree more. But all of this presumes that one HAS common sense, as well as a reasonably high IQ to digest the info.

For the most part, for whatever reason, TAMers are an unusual collection of high IQ, smart, savvy, well-articulated bunch of posters, unlike many other forums I have visited. TAM seems to draw the "thinkers"... those who really want to figure it out.

Some people (Quigster?) just aren't ready for that... Smart people tend to reject hog wagons loaded with sh*t... (The rest just want to hear a party-line that justifies their position.)

"Love is chemicals masquerading as choices!"
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post #28 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 01:28 PM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

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MOST relationships in life are disposable, no?
I'm sure for some people, all other humans apart from themselves are ultimately disposal.

But for most people who aren't socio-paths, developing and maintaining relationships through difficult periods is a skill required for long term happiness.
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post #29 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 01:30 PM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

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MOST relationships in life are disposable, no?
It depends on how one defines "relationship."

If you categorize any interaction with another person, regardless of level of seriousness, as a relationship (for example, you have a relationship with your mom, but you also have a relationship with the janitor because you exchange pleasantries once a week), then YES, most relationships in life are disposable.

My definition of relationship is different. If I consider an interaction to be disposable, then it's not a relationship. I know everyone on my building's cleaning crew, most of them by name, and I exchange pleasantries, but it's not a relationship. I have lots of acquaintances, and many of them are "friends" on Facebook, but I don't consider then relationships. All of these people could vanish from my life without a trace, and it would make no difference to me.

I have relationships with my family, my friends, (some) colleagues--people whom I engage with in a deeper, more meaningful way. Most of them are positive, some of them are negative. If they were to become absent from my life, I would be affected in some way.

Therefore, NO, I do not think that most relationships in life are disposable. Some are not meant to last a lifetime; they each have their own season, but it doesn't mean that they are disposable. Because PEOPLE are not disposable.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~

"Either you're interested, or you're not. Fvck yes or no... As in, if it isn't fvck yes for you, leave me the fvck alone. I don't have time for playing games."
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post #30 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 01:32 PM
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Re: The Most Toxic Forum In Existence

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Originally Posted by Lionelhutz View Post
I'm sure for some people, all other humans apart from themselves are ultimately disposal.

But for most people who aren't socio-paths, developing and maintaining relationships through difficult periods is a skill required for long term happiness.
I like how you completely twisted what I said into something it was not.

MOST of our relationships ARE disposable, yes.

You have relationships with thousands of people. You do not NEED very many of those to find happiness. Those relationships start and stop daily, and yet...some of us still go on happy. Those able to adapt to this are the ones who actually find happiness.
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