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Men Are Getting Weaker — because We’re Not Raising Men

19K views 182 replies 49 participants last post by  2ntnuf 
#1 ·
Here is an interesting article comparing young men currently vs. years ago. Some highlights:

This morning, the Washington Post highlighted a study showing that the grip strength of a sample of college men had declined significantly between 1985 and 2016. Indeed, the grip strength of the sample of college men had declined so much — from 117 pounds of force to 98 — that it now matched that of older Millennial women. In other words, the average college male had no more hand strength than a 30-year-old mom.

Yes, I know it’s only one study. Yes, I know that grip strength is but one measure of overall physical fitness. But as the Post noted, these findings are consistent with other studies showing kids are less fit today. (For example, it takes children 90 seconds longer to run a mile than it did 30 years ago.) Simply put, we’re getting soft — and no cohort is getting softer faster than college men.
That’s not to say that they don’t still carve out their own, distinctively male spaces — boys and girls are different, after all. But spend time with teen boys today and you’ll find that their common experience revolves more around Call of Duty than around work or even sports. As kids get older (and even during their teenage years), the male gaming experience is supplemented with copious amounts of porn. Thus — as Philadelphia magazine illustrated in 2012 — the devolution of man is complete:
Our culture strips its young men of their created purpose and then wonders why they struggle. It wonders why men — who are built to be distinctive from women — flail in modern schools and workplaces designed from the ground-up for the feminine experience. Men were meant to be strong. Yet we excuse and enable their weakness. It’s but one marker of cultural decay, to be sure, but it’s a telling marker indeed. There is no virtue in physical decline.
Male Physical Decline: Masculinity Is Threatened | National Review
 
#2 ·
Glad I was raised in a time before Alan Alda put forth the whiney, emotive, mamby-pamby, effete male role model.

John Wayne, Vic Morrow, Clint Eastwood, Humphrey Bogart... they were much more solid, if only 2 dimensional, role models.

My boys just graduated HS with multiple varsity sports under their belts, black belts in TKD, plus academic and music excellence.

It comes down to expectations and standards.

Fvck "society's standards". It's my standards, and to a lessor extent my wife's standards, that matter.

(My wife's standards are less important in this area because she's a traditional woman who provides the softer side of our relationship. Her focus is on raising respectful, "nice" boys. Ok by me if they have a soft, empathetic exterior that's demanded today, as long as they're men inside.)

We'll see if society undoes what we did for the boys. If so, I'll be there to kick their a55es back in line ;)


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#5 ·
Testing the wrong hand. After all, most men really are monogamous.
 
#4 ·
Wow. Talk about taking a single data point and running with it. What a macho mono-dimensional measure of masculinity.

A simple shift away from manual labor could just as easily explain something like this without all the, um, hand wringing.
 
#6 ·
Wow. Talk about taking a single data point and running with it. What a macho mono-dimensional measure of masculinity.

A simple shift away from manual labor could just as easily explain something like this without all the, um, hand wringing.
Always available with the alluring alliteration, aren't you?
 
#8 ·
It is kind of amusing they chose this measure. I wonder if the answer didn't come out right with other surrogates for masculinity and they kept searching for variables until they hit upon one that fit their thesis.

But I guess it must be true, because, you know, Science!


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#9 ·
What a bunch of b*lls.

Grip strength = manhood.

Bet Bill Gates and Zuckerburg were worried about their grip strength when they were spending ungodly hours brain storming ideas that would make them billions.

The example of gaming today, seems to me back in the day, most teens were abusing alcohol, smoking **** and generally abusing their bodies..but that's manly right?

And yes I generalized.. just like this article and it's "study"
 
#10 ·
While I may disagree that grip strength is a good measure of strength and masculinity, I do agree that the Western male has become a weaker and less traditionally masculine creature. Which is sad. If I wanted to be romantically involved with what basically amounts to a hairy women, I'd have become a lesbian.
 
#11 ·
OK so let's throw out grip strength.
I'm in boy Scouts There are a set of manly skills that society expects of every Boy Scout.
Tie a knot.
Find North.
Basic First aid.
Light a fire.
Swim.

I'm going to focus on tie a knot for a bit.
BSA now requires only 6 knots. Our local Summer camp has a relay race for the troops. one of the stations requires the boys to tie two of those knots selected at random. A thirty second penalty is assessed for missing the first knot 60 seconds for missing the second. So the troop selects their best knot man, And still almost every scout takes at least one penalty. I know a nine year old who can't tie his shoes.

I agree we are not training Boys to be Men. In fact we punish then for being Boys.
 
#14 ·
Taking grip strength as a measure is undoubtedly a stretch lol. However, at a minimum there have been reports that men have lower T levels now than 30 yrs ago, and supposedly now there are more cases of ED among young men. So something is clearly going on, whether it be grip strength, society, environmental factors, or other factors.
 
#18 ·
I'm an old curmudgeon, and I can tell you things were not better in my day. I don't know if my dad raised a "real" man. He was a cruel man, but I fully understand why he was so vacuous of feelings. It's not that I have swung all the way in the opposite direction, but I'm not my father. Both my sons are strong.


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#19 ·
I have teenage boys whose father has had a limited influence in their life.

Yet somehow they don't wear skinny jeans, do quite well in school, are in martial arts as well as other sports, and while I don't know that much about their grip strength I do know they can both pick me up.

And they don't have man buns. Eww, man's buns.....yuck.

But then again, I have a black belt so maybe that has something to do with it.

Data analysis is a shaky field.....most of it is sloppy and everyone who does it has an agenda.
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#20 ·
The world changes and what abilities people need change with it.

There is little call in the modern world, to know how to move silently through a forest, to kill a deer with a primitive bow, to fight with spear or sword. Little need to know how to use a sextant, tables of logarithms, spherical geometry. its absolutely fine to do those things as a hobby, but they are not an important part of most people's lives.
 
#21 ·
The article mentioned that modern schools and workplaces are designed for the feminine experience. I've noticed that myself.

I worked in construction for a few years after high school. I remember we were a bunch of rough edge guys that were ready to get dirty and call it a day. We didn't care about each other's birthdays and we didn't buy each other Christmas gifts, etc.

Now that I'm a school teacher, we co-workers always have to celebrate something. Somebody just had a baby, so we're having an after-school shower. We wish everybody a happy birthday and draw names during the holidays so we can have a little faculty party after school. Every time somebody sneezes, we have to recognize it in some way. Sometimes I have to watch a Clint Eastwood marathon just to reset myself.
 
#22 ·
Today's boys are wimps on average. Not enough physical activity required to make a living. Everything is computers and technology. Very few blue collar jobs requiring strength are availably today. Take it to the bank.....it's true. I would give my left nut to have a construction job today. I'm just a wimpy airline pilot who has to get his physical jollies through meaningless exercise. Worst move I ever made. At least the marines showed me the path to physical credibility and I still try to keep up. Today's youth are screwed. Most can't even catch their breath during light exercise.
 
#27 ·
You control a machine with the power of many thousands of horses, and felt that power hurl you into the sky. You've seen sunrise turn the clouds red, and the lights of cities glittering far below. You have seen St. Elmo's fire, and the curtains of the northern light reflecting from from the arctic ice, and approach lights glimmering though rain and storm.

Your knowledge and skill protects the lives of your passengers.

You have seen and done things most...humans can't imagine.

Why do you miss the dirt?
 
#30 ·
re grip strength.

not surprising - far more passive games, far less tree climbing and hammer holding/digging. less bike riding (far less distance) and bikes which are mechanically more advanced. and less chores, and those chores are less physically demanding. Muscle (currently) just grow because it's cool to have, it does so to adapt to workload.
 
#32 ·
My next door neighbor was a Real Man. He worked in construction his entire shortened life. After a decade and a half of that, he warned his son to go to school, get an education, and get a job using his brain. His body was tired. He came home from work exhausted every day. He hated the way his body was wearing out just from securing a living.

He was so much man that he refused to wear a life vest when out fishing with that same son the day his boat capsized in the bay. His son, who just graduated from college this year, swam to shore while he drowned. Meanwhile, I, his next door neighbor, have worked a six figure desk job programming for over 25 years. I do 45 minutes of aerobic exercise 5 days a week and have a resting heart rate of 60 b.p.m.

Just maybe some of today's "wimpy" men have figured out that they don't need to work themselves to death to still be considered masculine.
 
#34 ·
My next door neighbor was a Real Man. He worked in construction his entire shortened life. After a decade and a half of that, he warned his son to go to school, get an education, and get a job using his brain. His body was tired. He came home from work exhausted every day. He hated the way his body was wearing out just from securing a living.
I've worked most of my career in electrical equipment design. I regularly see up close exactly what you are talking about. Those in the trades wear out their bodies at work. The lucky ones have only minor mishaps that accumulate to mzany aches and pains they deal with. The less lucky deal with debilatating burns or falls.
 
#44 ·
Who cares if men these days cannot lift more weight..i mean is lifting more weight or getting super fit the only purpose of men's life? Surely strength was needed back then when there were no guns or police security..nowadays the strength of your brain is only what matters most i think...and i donot say that men shouldnt be healthy but its not necessary to be super fit either.

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#46 ·
Who cares if men these days cannot lift more weight..i mean is lifting more weight or getting super fit the only purpose of men's life? Surely strength was needed back then when there were no guns or police security..nowadays the strength of your brain is only what matters most i think..
The police can't be everywhere all the time. It's a nice benefit to have potential criminals pass you over based on your appearance.
 
#49 ·
The only thing my youngest son is missing that I remember was drafting class. It seems this is no longer an elective in HS. It was the only class I remember enjoying in HS along with my agriculture class.

Why don't they teach drafting any longer? I still have my compass and and other tools (all in a worn out case).

If pure strength is the issue, then no problem. Both of my sons are strong, but there a few other developmental issues that may be missing.


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#56 ·
"Now, for parents of the privileged, raising a boy to be a young man has to be an intentional act. You have to ignore the voices who are telling you to indulge your child’s inclinations — no matter what they are — and train them to be not just morally courageous but also physically strong. "

My experience as a single mom raising a son has been opposite of the above quote. I've had to ignore the modern society voices telling me NOT to indulge my sons natural inclinations.

- He wanted to play sports with physical aggression. "Why do you let him participate in those sports? He could get hurt?"

- He is naturally inclined to be protective and fatherly over his younger sister. "You shouldn't put that burden on him, it's not his responsibility"

- He is inclined to explore his environment. "Why do you let your teenager go on the bus and walk the streets in the city in broad daylight?"

If I listened to these voices I would have beat out of him everything that makes feel like a man.


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#71 ·
#65 ·
Just last year my son took the last ever shop class at his high school. They are now switching the building from auto shop to sports medicine. All other types of shop classes have switched to computer classes. My daughters high school didn't have any shop classes. Back in the day a lot of men learned basic life and safety skills in those classes.

My husband has noticed that young men just don't know basic skills. They come to the station house and don't know car maintenance, how to mow a lawn, house repairs, names of tools and housekeeping. He has had to teach guys how to clean a bathroom and explain what a radiator does. It's a shame.
 
#67 ·
My husband has noticed that young men just don't know basic skills. They come to the station house and don't know car maintenance, how to mow a lawn, house repairs, names of tools and housekeeping. He has had to teach guys how to clean a bathroom and explain what a radiator does. It's a shame.
I built an 1800 ft^2 addition to our home (with help, of course) with my own two hands. I wired the electric, plumbed the bathrooms, framed the walls, helped with the concrete, and nailed on the roof. RFN I'm building a 500 ft^2 deck around the pool from the ground up.

I have changed an engine in a car. I do all of my own auto repair.
There is basically no task around the house that I won't tackle, but I have no formal training as a mechanic, plumber, electrician, or contractor.

Now I'm not saying this to brag. I have friends who consider me a fool for doing it at considerable cost to my free time. And you know what? They're right. Just because I'm a stubborn old curmudgeon engineer who hates to pay someone else to do a job 85% as good as a professional doesn't make me a better man. It makes me a stubborn old curmudgeon engineer who likes to buy tools. Some people are just too curious and too proud to admit that they probably shouldn't do it themselves.

People will learn tasks that they need to get buy. If you can hire someone else to fix your car and you don't want bloody knuckles, greasy forearms, and an ever-present reek of gasoline, what's wrong with farming out the task? Hell, even I hired out the sheetrock in our addition. That's work that no one should have to do!

The world changes. The tasks and skills required of people living in that world change. The only thing that doesn't change is the nostalgic teary eyed wistful longings for the "old ways".
 
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#70 ·
I am wondering if because we are so aware of raising strong daughters, that we are neglecting the boys somehow?

Boys nowadays see their mum doing so much. She is strong and works just as hard as dad. Even at home she is the strong one and the decision maker and as such, this is affecting the way that they see themselves?
 
#72 ·
"Many schools have banned dodgeball"

"Young girls have been encouraged and empowered, while boys have been shamed and emasculated for being boys"

"modern schools and workplaces are designed for the feminine experience"

"Hell, there are high schools now that don't even offer wood-shop or auto-shop anymore"

"The new school year my son is enrolled in dance"


It's called the wussification of America. Don't know who coined the phrase.

Reading this thread I am almost glad I could never have children. :(
 
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