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Karen Straughan - Men not marrying? How deep does "the problem" go?

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#1 · (Edited)
Men not marrying? How deep does "the problem" go? - YouTube

Hi Guys and Gals,
The search for reasons why my spouse cheated on me has led me to some interesting observations about men and women in society, and what the current value of men is in society to women.
I stumbled across Karen Straughan on youtube and whilst not everybody will agree with her perspectives, they resonated so strongly with me that I wanted to share them with you. She has a whole host of vids, but this one struck a chord.
What do you think?
 
#316 · (Edited)
I want to marry.

Not because I've not had options, or because I'm naturally monogamous. Nor because I anticipate being better off financially. I've been asked to marry by two partners (I'm supposed to ask, but, I never asked.) I want to marry, but I want guarantees, like the vows to mean something. For there to be a penalty if the vows are not kept. There isn't any.

I'm not comfortable with that. To me an oath or a vow is different to an everyday promise. If broken they should elicit a smoky patch of ground and a smell of ozone. But nothing happens. So I never married, figuring that if things become fake, the last thing I need is for the fake relationship to be difficult to get out of. I made the right choice.

I believe in marriage and life-long partnership, and desire them.

But under our system... I can't agree to it. There are only minuses. Big ones.
 
#318 ·
Over20,

We live in an age in which the consumer has become incredibly demanding, absolutely entitled. Women have a desire to seduce and tame an alpha male. Pride and Prejudice reflects this romantic desire, which is really in line with evolutionary interest. A strong male who has the ability to defend himself pairs with a woman out of love and respect for her.

His affection and attachment is extremely constant. Romance fiction is not about servant girls who were seduced by the randy sons of the gentry, only to be sent to some village or institution to raise a b*stard child in disgrace. Holywood and mainstream TV pretty much refuse to spend money on stories with bad endings for the heroine.

In 2002, Harlequin published 1,113 romance novels, more than half of all romances released in North America. The next most prolific publisher was Kensington Books, which released only 219 romance titles.[1] In 2006, Harlequin published books in 26 languages in 109 international markets. They sold a total of 131 million books, similar to the company's sales in 2005.[39]

The company is considered one of the most profitable in publishing. Over $585 million worth of books sold in 2003, for gross profits of $124 million and a profit margin of 21%
In contrast to women, men consume porn. So men and women actually have heightened and misguided expectations of how they are going to connect. Hence marriage is not thriving as an institution.

Add the shift in education that has raised women up while men sink down and marriage has an additional hindrance.
 
#319 ·
I agree with you...LongWalk....the very ugly result of the feminist movement...it has hurt men, children and women (even though most will disagree....it all started with that darn BC pill)
 
#320 ·
Well, if you're looking to asses blame, I blame allowing women the right to vote. No, let's go back further. They should never have allowed women to learn to read!

Seriously over20?
 
#321 ·
Well hello...once again we disagree....I went back to the Pill invention, which ideally was for married couples spacing their children...the Pill sadly led to free sex..which has led to a lot problems for males and females.
 
#322 ·
Oh dear!

Well, we will never see eye to eye on this. I don't advocate waiting for marriage. And yes, I have 3 daughters, youngest is 14, then 24, then 27. My oldest is getting married this year, as are every single one of her many friends.... or so it seems.:rolleyes:

So you think free sex caused by birth control is what causes women to cheat and leave their husbands while taking all their husbands money while also taking the kids but neglecting them?
 
#323 ·
I DO advocate abstinence until marriage...I have 3 daughter's also...20,16,11..daughter's are such a blessing aren't they?...My hope is that they do not sleep around..one knows that after you sleep with a person a piece of your heart and body is left behind with that person.

I think as a whole, society, men and women sleep around way to much....as a result of the invention of BC pill/sexual revolution. There are way to many broken hearts and STD"s that have stemmed from the sexual revolution...
 
#324 ·
What is the solution to these dire prediction of men going on strike?

Men who marry will beget children who are well equipped to marry and nurture children who also get married.

Their progeny likely to be secure. The stability in their formative years and young adulthood will ready them for the highly technologic age in our future.

Men who don't get married will probably have less children. If they do, the children will be ill equipped to thrive due to the absence of a strong male figure.

The survival of the fittest will be the ones who thrive in the new. Social evolution.

I don't know what the motive is of men who make dire prediction. It is always dire for women but good for men. Nice fantasy but no better than mine.

No one knows what will happen. I don't believe it will be better for men and worse for women since our destinies are linked.
 
#329 ·
What is the solution to these dire prediction of men going on strike?

Men who marry will beget children who are well equipped to marry and nurture children who also get married.

Their progeny likely to be secure. The stability in their formative years and young adulthood will ready them for the highly technologic age in our future.
This trend has already been observed and commented upon by social scientists and the press for at least a decade. Higher IQ and earnings people marry other higher IQ and earnings people.

Men who don't get married will probably have less children. If they do, the children will be ill equipped to thrive due to the absence of a strong male figure.

The survival of the fittest will be the ones who thrive in the new. Social evolution.
You'll have a small elite overclass that has marriage and is mostly monogamous, and a giant majority underclass where few marry and a few highly sexually desirable baby daddies will be shared by most of the baby mammas. The very hottest underclass women will probably be elevated to consort with the overclass men.

I don't know what the motive is of men who make dire prediction. It is always dire for women but good for men. Nice fantasy but no better than mine.
The vast majority of underclass men will be the losers, since they won't have a woman, unless they agree to be provider drones and raise the alpha spawn in exchange for occasional coitus.

No one knows what will happen. I don't believe it will be better for men and worse for women since our destinies are linked.
Monogamy with very little ability to divorce is best for society, all in all. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed and sank.
 
#325 ·
Re: birth control
My maternal grandmother had 13 children, including 3 pair twins, the last of which were still born as she could not longer cope with labor. The pill would have made her life easier.

In the future perhaps a contraceptive cream that protects against veneral disease will come on to the market. Then cheating will increase since one additional consideration preventing extra marital sex will vanish. It will probably not taste so good but never mind.

Feminism means different things to different folks. Interesting that feminism generally doesn't lead to women to encourage each other to avoid casual sex and thus strengthen the male desire for marriage.
 
#331 ·
Your goal isn't unity writing this: "I am tired of women who are anti-male and nazi-feminists. I have always preferred hanging out with the guys because they are usually funnier and don't gossip or play mind games".

Now back to the topic. Many men are chosing not to marry and many women are doing the same. Both genders have their own reasons and I think it's great that those people recognize marriage isn't for them and that societal pressure to do so is lessening.
 
#328 ·
Unite for what??

The last time we united we got marriage aversive men. Lets just stay fractured lest we do something else to f@ck things up.

Women are horrible creatures judging by this forum. It's a wonder that any man would have anything to do with them. Oh yea that.... oh well, that's life.

The next thing you know we will want the White House painted pink in preparation for our first lady president. :p
 
#332 ·
Do you know of any females that can support both sides?...Most of the time females side with females and then on the female side there is a lot of division.....

The OP is about men not marrying
 
#333 · (Edited)
Yes. You are that female.

But men are not united they only seem that way. in fact they are silos, independent and emotionally isolated.

They are more competitive than women. It's been socially drilled into them - being the sole provider standing between starvation or plenty for their family.

I work in a mostly male environment and have had men who worked and studied under my leadership. Women work harder because they think that is the way to get ahead.

Men work less but manage to appear, by several guises, to get adequate results. How you ask? They are masters at finding the path to the top. It takes manipulation, deviousness and finding followers to work for them.

However, you will not find anyone more consistently loyal, sincere and committed when they want to be. That is the paradox of men. All of my mentors have been male and successful.

We get it. You like men. You cannot judge anyone by a few or even 100 post. No one says the same thing all of the time. That's what makes people so fascinating. Relax, men are not as fragile as you think.

In one area they must be handled with great care by woman, when they give their heart. They are not as connected to as many people as women. They don't give in to their need for connection lightly. I learned that on TAM and life.

But if you don't have their heart, you can say just about anything and they don't cry like women. :p
 
#334 ·
I never said men were not united among themselves...and you are wrong men are very united in a lot of ways/views.

You say men work less but manage to appear by several guises to get adequate results??? Then you blame them to fight to go to the top...you even use the word Manipulation....shame on you.

I know men are not fragile...that's why I deeply respect, (the word you have never used towards men), and appreciate ( another word you have never used in accordance to men).....why such anger towards these men? Why not sympathize with their situation?
 
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#335 ·
Over20, you remind me of my mother. I just don't understand women like her, like you.

My late brother was raked over the coals by his psycho-b!tch exWW. She alienated his sons from him, even while he was dying. When the community raised money for a fund for his medical care, she tried to get her share. When he could no longer move his limbs, she insisted he come and clean his tools out of the garage! When he could no longer use his fingers, she accused him of hiding behind his siblings who typed for him. As he lay in his wheelchair fighting to breathe she kept his sons from him because someone had to stay home to care for the dogs so she could go to her lovers cabin for the weekend. I could tell more horror stories than most of the men here.

But here's the deal. We warned him not to marry her! My father offered a brand new car. We begged him not to marry her she was a selfish spoiled rotten ice princess. But she looked hot, he was in love, he knew what he was doing....

What happened to him was horrible. But he was warned and he didn't listen.

If men don't want to marry, they shouldn't! If women don't want to marry, they shouldn't either!

What we have to worry about is not men, nor women, but children! Who will be teaching our sons to be men? Who will be teaching our daughters to be women? Broken people with a negative view a "what's in it for me" attitude? I hope not. If a man decides not to marry in order to protect himself, in order to keep having sex, in order to make his own decisions, so be it.

Who will teach our children how to make good decisions? Who will teach our children how to share, take turns, empathize, show compassion? We need everyone to do that.

So men, I wish you Godspeed as you heal your wounds. But don't take too long because your kids need a healthy and whole father to guide them, and they are only children for a short time.
 
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#339 ·
I'm sorry Anon, that must have been horrible to watch. Too often men choose women based on how hot they are and then b!tch about what they have to deal with. Who was it that said "give me the most beautiful woman in the world and I'll give you someone that's tired of her sh!t"? I'm deeply uncomfortable with the idea that men who make no effort to evaluate the character of the woman they choose (but she's HOT so what else is there?) are somehow huge victims when she tries to screw them over. If you use shallow criteria to choose a partner don't be shocked when you get a shallow partner.
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#340 ·
I just think how marriage is conducted needs to change.

'My ex and I used to say a phrase to one another in lieu of ' I love you.'

We used to say 'For all time.'
Had it inscribed in our wedding rings.

Apparently, all time was more like a decade. We were both saddened by the end of our marriage.

I'm only being partially tongue in cheek here, but I think marriage should be more like a term contract.

Both parties have the opportunity and option to renew at the time of expiration. Write in, and make clear the penalties for early termination, violation of the terms of the agreement, and/or incentivize re-upping, or create a rewards program for those who successfully resubscribe beyond the 1,5,10 and subsequent 10 year terms.

Make it much more of a marketing and business model focused on the marriage rather than just the wedding day itself, and I think everyone would be smarter about, and more fulfilled by the prospect of marriage.
 
#345 ·
Maybe marriage is dead. Seems to be headed that way. Maybe in a hundred years no one will be legally married and he notion of lifetime or even long term commitment will be over and out as larger and larger portions of the role the traditional family in terms of material support, child rearing etc are job shopped out the public and private sectors. Maybe being a 'traditionally married' nuclear family will be as anachronistic as the 1950's home maker or as weird looking as Mormon polygamy.
 
#350 · (Edited)
Most women are cleverer than most men. I have a lot of fun IRL watching the sly things they do to each other.

I'm only talking my experience, don't anyone expect a bleeding study ;)

But 'multi-tasking' is horsesh*t.

Some of the girls I worked with would boast about their ability to multitask. What it meant in practice, is doing a half job of many things at once, and then getting stressed at all the things they've left unfinished. Then taking out the stress on colleagues. "I'm so busy!"

Overall I don't find men or women to be more productive workers. They're all different, I found no rules for it.

In terms of hierarchical behaviour,

As a supervisor, I found women workers are easier to direct, motivate and get along with. I prefer them as underlings.

In the opposite situation, where they are the manager, they pick favourites and bully the other women. Then they wonder why motivation goes down the drain. It doesn't affect me so much, I just laugh at their self-destructive behaviour... but it creates a cruddy atmosphere. Constant whining from colleagues.

The woman manager who consciously acts professionally at work - no favourites, no romances etc. - will outpace any man and rise up a company faster than any man, and deservedly so.

The one who gossips and backstabs - for her there is no glass ceiling, apart from the one she installed for herself. No amount of legislation is going to make this sort of person fit for governing people.

Just my opinions... as a dumberer creature, you shouldn't hold me criminally responsible for them. Agreed?
 
#355 ·
The Handmaids Tale was built on a society in which the ruling class righted all the wrongs heaped upon society by women's equality movement. The first thing the ruling class did was enslave or kill librarians and outlaw women's right to read. Then they went after unwed mothers, then divorced mothers.

Damn scary book!
 
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#365 ·
I know I was fooled! I did it to myself though. I saw something I thought was something else. Turns out I was wrong and the mistake was mine. Thanks to TAM I no longer think all men are actually extremely stupid.

I'm serious. All the men I've known in my life have been unbearably hopelessly stupid when it comes to women. Now I understand they are just men and I needed to learn to communicate better.

Funny how that works.
 
#394 ·
" Even in a committed relationship, there is still less chance of her getting off than a man during sex, but there is a much likelier chance she will. "

You nailed it (no pun intended). I've often wondered if it's evolution that has produced the tendency for SOME women to prefer committed relationships so that our sex drive is actually satisfied. One night stands--the man is not likely to care if we do or don't. BORING.
 
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