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post #706 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 02:14 PM
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Re: Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by SimplyAmorous View Post
Makes me not want to be in the company of the rich & famous as they would only see people like us living like paupers..
As I said, there are lots of wealthy people who choose not to flash their worth. You almost certainly know some, and don't realize it, and they like it that way. These flashy folks are like seeing only the tip of the iceberg.

We will never own a $4000 oven. No reason for it. If we entertain groups over 10 in my home we work with a caterer. I spent $400 last year to basically refurbish our older--and very robust--gas range b/c it's cheaper to do so over the life of the product. We'll get at least another 10 years out of the thing and by then we will likely sell the house for another.

It's like the Click & Clack argument re: new car vs. repairing old.

I have nothing to connect this back to the thread topic, unfortunately, except that my H and I view money the same way, so we don't fight about it. We spend where it makes sense, and don't where it doesn't.

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post #707 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 02:44 PM
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Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by sapientia View Post
I asked for help from this site several years ago when I first joined. I haven't asked for anything recently. I didn't start this thread, and it's not about me.

Unsolicited 'advice' is usually more about the needs of the giver than the receiver.

Some posters have useful insights.


Ugh already. Ok SAP. You win.

BTW what is the thread topic? There has been so much jacking here it is confusing. Is this OP's story or is it an open thread?
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post #708 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 03:22 PM
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Re: Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by 225985 View Post
Ugh already. Ok SAP. You win.

BTW what is the thread topic? There has been so much jacking here it is confusing. Is this OP's story or is it an open thread?
Someone called a WS a scumbag in another thread. Cletus read it, felt a little like being a KISA and also took offense because he owned it.

He wanted to blow off some steam and tell everyone that has ever thought their WS was a POS to piss off.

He doesn't believe one mistake or several of the same nature or leading to the same offense/mistake/infidelity should/could define the rest of that person's life.

They are much more than just a scumbag. They are human beings that make mistakes just like everyone else. I guess that means we all cheat? I'm not sure. That would be like calling everyone a convicted murderer, prostitute, or bank robber when they've never committed the crime.

Sure, in some states it's a crime, and others not. Even in those it's not, it can sway a judges rulings when infidelity is proven. So, it is against the law or they wouldn't take it into consideration at all. They just don't want to have a trial and sentencing for it cause so many do it.

So, we didn't define the word, scumbag. I don't think. We just all assume it means something we all agree with.

There was little discussion about why someone would be defined by some word. There was only justification and then acceptance and the thread opened up.

I posted something to @MEM2020 and @sapientia didn't like it and stepped in to set the record straight for him. He never commented on it, but let her argue her points with me, until she got her feelings hurt. So, he wants me and others to be careful with her feelings, though I did nothing more than she did, and probably less.

So, I'll concede to his authority, even if I do not agree with his opinion. It should have been a warning to all involved.



Now, we are talking about @MEM2020's life and @jld is asking a bunch of questions which don't seem to fit anything except to attempt to boost his ego, which is what usually happens when those two are in a thread together.

And finally, I've explained how I understand this thread to have developed and evolved.

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post #709 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
Someone called a WS a scumbag in another thread. Cletus read it, felt a little like being a KISA and also took offense because he owned it.

He wanted to blow off some steam and tell everyone that has ever thought their WS was a POS to piss off.

He doesn't believe one mistake or several of the same nature or leading to the same offense/mistake/infidelity should/could define the rest of that person's life.

They are much more than just a scumbag. They are human beings that make mistakes just like everyone else. I guess that means we all cheat? I'm not sure. That would be like calling everyone a convicted murderer, prostitute, or bank robber when they've never committed the crime.

Sure, in some states it's a crime, and others not. Even in those it's not, it can sway a judges rulings when infidelity is proven. So, it is against the law or they wouldn't take it into consideration at all. They just don't want to have a trial and sentencing for it cause so many do it.

So, we didn't define the word, scumbag. I don't think. We just all assume it means something we all agree with.

There was little discussion about why someone would be defined by some word. There was only justification and then acceptance and the thread opened up.

I posted something to @MEM2020 and @sapientia didn't like it and stepped in to set the record straight for him. He never commented on it, but let her argue her points with me, until she got her feelings hurt. So, he wants me and others to be careful with her feelings, though I did nothing more than she did, and probably less.

So, I'll concede to his authority, even if I do not agree with his opinion. It should have been a warning to all involved.



Now, we are talking about @MEM2020's life and @jld is asking a bunch of questions which don't seem to fit anything except to attempt to boost his ego, which is what usually happens when those two are in a thread together.

And finally, I've explained how I understand this thread to have developed and evolved.
Sort of a long walk to half heartedly agree with the "all cheaters really are scumbags" premise.

What Cletus took offense to is the simplistic thinking that lumps everyone into the same scumbag bucket regardless of circumstance, as is happening as we speak in another thread on this very forum.

People like neat, tidy wrappings and labels around lots of things in life, especially those things that allow them to feel superior to their fellow human.

Life rarely respects their desire for such simplicity, even if they won't admit it.

Don't know about KISA. I thought putting an actual yellow face on the term scumbag might force people to think just a little bit more about the actual human on the other side of the screen.


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post #710 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 03:53 PM
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Re: Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
Sort of a long walk to half heartedly agree with the "all cheaters really are scumbags" premise.

What Cletus took offense to is the simplistic thinking that lumps everyone into the same scumbag bucket regardless of circumstance, as is happening as we speak in another thread on this very forum.

People like neat, tidy wrappings and labels around lots of things in life, especially those things that allow them to feel superior to their fellow human.

Life rarely respects their desire for such simplicity, even if they won't admit it.

Don't know about KISA. I thought putting an actual yellow face on the term scumbag might force people to think just a little bit more about the actual human on the other side of the screen.


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My intention wasn't to claim anyone a scumbag, or beat around the bush about it. If I thought you were, I'd say so.

Life isn't simple, but that just proves that we are all human and weak, although in different areas. Some are unfaithful. Some are faithful, yet may drink too much. There are many possible scenarios and I won't try to list them.

In my opinion, you feel like you own the word "scumbag" when you read it, or it would not bother you enough to start a thread to tell everyone you are not a scumbag.

I don't say you are. You are accepting it as your monicker. There are many ways to approach this. Your thread is one.

Edit: As far as your comment about "circumstances", it's just another way of saying that infidelity is justified under certain circumstances. I disagree and always have.

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post #711 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
I don't say you are. You are accepting it as your monicker. There are many ways to approach this. Your thread is one.
I thought I was pretty clearly not accepting of it. It's a one-size-fits-all term applied to too many with no regard for their story or the sum of their character.

Quote:
Edit: As far as your comment about "circumstances", it's just another way of saying that infidelity is justified under certain circumstances. I disagree and always have.
It is no such thing. It is a testament to the fact that forces in marriage and life may cause otherwise decent people to make poor decisions. An act of infidelity does not suddenly turn a switch and create a Frankenstein from someone who was, up until then, an upstanding spouse. It creates an adulterer. How much compassion you are willing to give that adulterer probably depends on the sum of their person, I would hope.

Justification? No. It's still the wrong choice except for some pretty unusual extenuating circumstances (to which mine did not belong, for clarity).

So near as I can tell, you pretty much missed the entire point of this thread, at least from my perspective.
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post #712 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 04:46 PM
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Re: Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by 225985 View Post
Ugh already. Ok SAP. You win.

BTW what is the thread topic? There has been so much jacking here it is confusing. Is this OP's story or is it an open thread?
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Originally Posted by Wazza View Post
Sorry Cletus, no wish to derail your thread. I don't trigger often, but this is such an occasion.
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I'm not a thread nazi. Knock yourself out.
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post #713 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 05:11 PM
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Re: Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
I thought I was pretty clearly not accepting of it. It's a one-size-fits-all term applied to too many with no regard for their story or the sum of their character.
Actually, you missed my point. It wouldn't anger and upset you as it has, if you did not take it onto yourself as a slur. It was not directed at you, from your own words.

You could easily have discussed why you think the below, though you likely knew it would cause issues with many here at TAM. This is actually a violation of TAM rules. Do not start threads to incite "riots". Riots is my word, not in the rules.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
It is no such thing. It is a testament to the fact that forces in marriage and life may cause otherwise decent people to make poor decisions. An act of infidelity does not suddenly turn a switch and create a Frankenstein from someone who was, up until then, an upstanding spouse.
True, which is why I believe it's a character flaw to some extent, just as others have character flaws in one area or another. It may not be an issue of fidelity with others. We are all flawed, though.


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Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
It creates an adulterer. How much compassion you are willing to give that adulterer probably depends on the sum of their person, I would hope.
The act is adultery/infidelity/or some other descriptive word. Please don't try to turn this into a religious thing. It crosses boundaries into the secular humanist world, too. Those folks hurt just as much. You are minimizing the pain of them, of which your wife is one.

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Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
Justification? No. It's still the wrong choice except for some pretty unusual extenuating circumstances (to which mine did not belong, for clarity).
That's the definition of justification, Cletus.



Simple Definition of justification

1

: an acceptable reason for doing something : something that justifies an action
Justification | Definition of Justification by Merriam-Webster



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Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
So near as I can tell, you pretty much missed the entire point of this thread, at least from my perspective.
I think you're correct. You said it was about folks being called a "scumbag", but what you meant was that it was about justification for infidelity.

Which, negates any derogatory terms due to acceptance that someone was correct in choosing infidelity because they were pretty much forced to do it.

Next, you'll be telling me it wasn't fun. They didn't enjoy it at all. It didn't give them a sense of revenge for perceived prior injustices they suffered and did so so much to try to rectify. It didn't give them a false feeling of control.

Meh, it's a bull**** thread. Have fun. I hope others who read it see the truth and don't drink the cool aid. Reference to November 18, 1978 in Jonestown, Guyana. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

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post #714 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 05:23 PM
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Re: Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post

I posted something to @MEM2020 and @sapientia didn't like it and stepped in to set the record straight for him. He never commented on it, but let her argue her points with me, until she got her feelings hurt. So, he wants me and others to be careful with her feelings, though I did nothing more than she did, and probably less.
LOL. This is a great example of passive-aggressive style posting.

@MEM2020, did you really ask this^? I can't help but think this was not your actual request, assuming you even made one.
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post #715 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
Actually, you missed my point. It wouldn't anger and upset you as it has, if you did not take it onto yourself as a slur. It was not directed at you, from your own words.
I do not take it onto myself as a slur. Shall I repeat it, or is my stating it once sufficient? It is used by no small constituent of this forum as a description of anyone who has ever committed adultery, under any circumstances.

Quote:
You could easily have discussed why you think the below, though you likely knew it would cause issues with many here at TAM. This is actually a violation of TAM rules. Do not start threads to incite "riots". Riots is my word, not in the rules.
Aren't you just full of ascribing intent to people today.

Quote:
The act is adultery/infidelity/or some other descriptive word. Please don't try to turn this into a religious thing. It crosses boundaries into the secular humanist world, too. Those folks hurt just as much. You are minimizing the pain of them, of which your wife is one.
My wife is an atheist. She was a Catholic, lapsed, and no longer holds any belief.

Not that you'd believe me if I said I wasn't making even the most tangential religious argument.

Quote:
That's the definition of justification, Cletus.
Yup. There are circumstances where I believe adultery to be fully justified. They just don't come up all that much in real life. The don't apply to me.

Quote:
I think you're correct. You said it was about folks being called a "scumbag", but what you meant was that it was about justification for infidelity.

Which, negates any derogatory terms due to acceptance that someone was correct in choosing infidelity because they were pretty much forced to do it.

Next, you'll be telling me it wasn't fun. They didn't enjoy it at all. It didn't give them a sense of revenge for perceived prior injustices they suffered and did so so much to try to rectify. It didn't give them a false feeling of control.

Meh, it's a bull**** thread. Have fun. I hope others who read it see the truth and don't drink the cool aid.
Any time you want to come back and engage in a conversation with me about what I actually said, or ask the intent instead of substituting your strawman, please do.

But you don't want to do that, do you? You'd rather put words into my mouth, predicting my upcoming posts. You'd rather rail on the caricature. If you can't summon the gumption to call me a scumbag straight up, then by golly you're sure going to invent a version of me which you can without a guilty conscience. Which you're free to do, but I don't have to sit idly by and accept it for reality.


Last edited by Cletus; 08-09-2016 at 05:35 PM.
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post #716 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 05:47 PM
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Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by sapientia View Post
LOL. This is a great example of passive-aggressive style posting.

@MEM2020, did you really ask this^? I can't help but think this was not your actual request, assuming you even made one.

Since the mod's words were directed to me too i understood it to be the same that 2 just indicated. You did after call for the mods for help by shouting out to them and we obeyed the moderator's instruct.

Last edited by 225985; 08-09-2016 at 05:51 PM.
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post #717 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 05:57 PM
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Re: Scumbag here

Found it. That was a fair post.
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post #718 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-09-2016, 11:36 PM
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Re: Scumbag here

EDIT: I tried to delete this post this am.. but seems we can no longer do this Not sure I like that..

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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
Now, we are talking about @MEM2020's life and @jld is asking a bunch of questions which don't seem to fit anything except to attempt to boost his ego, which is what usually happens when those two are in a thread together.

And finally, I've explained how I understand this thread to have developed and evolved.
This part about MEM & jld ...I may have initially laughed reading it..but that's just because "how can this be!"... I can't see her doing that... Jld may speak her mind.. but boosting a man's ego... I'd have to see it to believe it ! (my post could have been misread, or misunderstood, I don't want that)

... I haven't really been following ... I entered cause @larry.gray mentioned me ...

My original "on topic" post was many pages ago by now... I didn't get a like from Cletus even though I clearly don't think he's a scumbag.. maybe he felt I was defending scumbags "too much"...

Another poster took issue with me & thought so anyway... I try to see the pain & suffering on both sides is all...

It's a great topic though..

Last edited by SimplyAmorous; 08-10-2016 at 10:39 AM.
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post #719 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-10-2016, 12:05 AM
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Re: Scumbag here

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This part about @MEM2020 & @jld had me laughing out loud !!
What makes you laugh? That someone thinks I am boosting a male ego instead of deflating it, like I am usually accused of?

I make comments and ask questions as I am inspired. No inspiration, no participation.

It was interesting to hear 2's interpretation of what was said. I would never have guessed it if he had not written it.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #720 of 837 (permalink) Old 08-10-2016, 09:31 AM
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Re: Scumbag here

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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
Someone called a WS a scumbag in another thread. Cletus read it, felt a little like being a KISA and also took offense because he owned it.

He wanted to blow off some steam and tell everyone that has ever thought their WS was a POS to piss off.

He doesn't believe one mistake or several of the same nature or leading to the same offense/mistake/infidelity should/could define the rest of that person's life.

They are much more than just a scumbag. They are human beings that make mistakes just like everyone else. I guess that means we all cheat?
Oh no! We find new and interesting mistakes to make. We don't all make the SAME mistakes. I have made some whoppers in my time requiring solid reflection on what I want my character look like, thus resolving not to make that mistake again. Live and learn.

There are many ways to hurt the ones we love. We are not thinking, gee today I want to hurt the one I love! Won't that be fun!
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