Was What I Did Really That Bad? - Page 7 - Talk About Marriage
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post #91 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 01:49 AM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

OP, why do you believe it wasn't a big deal? Was it because you did not have physical contact?
Are you starting to understand that the betrayal was just as deep to your W without that element? Whether you agree or not is pretty irrelevant.

I'm sharing a link to ChumpLady, and one of her posts about real vs, fake remorse. I think you may see some- but not all- of you in there. I honestly don't think you are engaging in a full blown "fake" remorse. But the fact you sleep on the couch should be enough for you to realize what ever you are doing is simply not enough.

Real Remorse? Or Genuine Imitation Naugahyde Remorse? - ChumpLady.com


In youth it was a way I had, to do my best to please, And change, with every passing lad to suit his theories.
But now I know the things I know, and do the things I do; And if you do not like me so, To hell, my love, with you! --Dorothy Parker
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post #92 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 04:23 AM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHB50 View Post
@nolight - Thank you for your post - it seems as if youíre a bit angry and Iím not sure if you had a partner who did this same to you, but I believe every relationship is different and unique and cannot just be chalked up to one simple answer- divorce. If both partners in a marriage want to work to make things better, it is their right to do so, that is why Iím here I am hoping to become a better husband and man. I donít understand why you think I have a low sympathy for my wife. I can see she is truly hurt by what I did and Iím trying to make things right as best I can, with the help from all of you.
The reason about sympathy is quite clear, your wife is deeply hurting and confused and here are your quotes

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHB50 View Post
just texting of a sexual nature, thatís all I was really looking for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHB50 View Post
for which I looked at as meaningless banter and for my W to look at as the desecration of 25 years together and 20 years of marriage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHB50 View Post
I donít think what I did was that bad. She made me tell my sister, our clergy, and W told 2 friends and my FIL. Isnít that enough of a penance? She kicked me out of my bed... our dog has better accommodations! We are in MC, and Iím trying to do everything she asks, I even wrote her an apology letter that my therapist assigned. And every day she reminds me because of how crappy she feels that this isnít over. How can I get her to forgive me? Iím not good at reading hints, but is what I did really all that bad? I know my W is concerned that when the dust settles I may do this again, but I have no desire to do that, because Iíve seen how much it hurt my W and the image of horror on her face when she discovered me is ingrained on my brain forever. I do regret what I did, but she doesnít believe me. I think I understand where W is coming from but she doesnít feel that Iím getting it.


I'm sorry if i came across as angry, i was just being straight forward and from what i've read from your posts, it's still all about you. And no, i'm not married and haven't been cheated and cheated on but i've seen multiple times both in my inner circle and environment the effects that cheating bring to someone who got cheated on and here you are talking that you don't get laid and sleeps on sofa. Recovery is not penance or punishment like you've said, it's impossible to expect someone who got cheated on not to behave at least cold toward the cheater
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post #93 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 06:38 AM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

To me the fact you have to ask that question in the heading says it all. YOU have not come to the full realization of the damage you have done to your wife and your marriage. It's like a tornado went through your home when your family was sleeping upstairs, you were in the basement, get up the next morning, the sun is shining and wonder what all the fuss is about. You are either in denial, very selfish or plain unsympathetic, maybe all three.

I wonder how you would feel if your wife were to talk the way the OW talked with you but with another man. Would you be ok with that if if went on for a period of time? With him telling her all the things he wants to do to her and her reciprocating likewise, her telling him how hot he was, etc. You get the picture?

A woman is not like a man. A man can often compartmentalize the sex from the emotion, a woman cannot. To her you have decimated her world and everything she believed about herself as your woman and about you as her man. You are not the man she thinks you are and that is something difficult to come to grips with. You have lost a part of her heart, and you will never get it back.

The way you talk is of someone who is minimizing, no remorse and it's all about poor me, poor me, how can she be making this so difficult for me..........as I said no sympathy, empathy or realization of what you have done.
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post #94 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 07:16 AM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

It sounds like you are doing your best here, OP. I feel kind of sorry for you. I believe you when you say you love your wife. I don't think you were trying to hurt her, though that is certainly what happened.

Please be as honest and open as possible with her, including why you did it, why you hid it, and why you did not, or possibly even do not, really understand why she is so upset by it. If you feel she has overreacted, you need to tell her that. Humbly and gently, for sure. But if it is your genuine feeling, she needs to hear that, and why.

You both need to give honesty, and be able to hear it, no matter how painful. That is how you will both grow from this incident. Transparency is powerful, and can heal. But it is often painful at first.

FWIW, I don't think you ever loved that woman. I do think you love your wife, and are showing her that love in a way that you consider meaningful. But she wants to be loved in a way that *she* considers meaningful. You two could have an interesting talk on how she feels you could best do that for her.

And please do not feel you have to say what TAM wants to hear. Say what you genuinely think, as you did with your title. Or feel free to say nothing. You do not need to please anyone here. You certainly do not owe us anything.

Thanks for being willing to come here and share your thoughts with us. You did not have to. I hope it helps you and your wife somehow.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #95 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 08:09 AM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

MrHB50, you are interpreting your wife's reaction to the situation as punishment. It is not her intent to punish you by crying etc. Her behavior is a consequence of having her world blown apart. Referring to it as punishment smacks of self-pity and manipulation. You are not the victim here.

What you did was a crime against the heart. You cannot make amends for emotional pain by doing physical things. Yes, it is nice that you are being more helpful with the day to day tasks of living but that doesn't cut the mustard. You need to find a way to make your wife feel emotionally safe with you. Read those books again until her pain resonates with you. And, stop increasing her work load by buying flowers and ordering in. She needs more rest - not more work to pay for them.
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post #96 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 08:27 AM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

Cook for the family today, or for you and the kids if W eats NS.

I agree with BL. Quit the order in for now.
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post #97 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 08:34 AM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondilocks View Post
You need to find a way to make your wife feel emotionally safe with you.
This might be a good focus, OP. Ask your wife what could make her feel emotionally safe with you. Really listen to what she says. Make a plan together for how to do this.

And then work on how she could do the same for you.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #98 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 08:45 AM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

The worse thing you can do right now is not to follow through with what you committed to. If you agree to do something, do it. And do it by the time you said you would.
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post #99 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 09:13 AM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

I stay for the kids. He has not done it again but he has never truly acknowledged what he did.

He said sorry, sure. Many times in the first year or two. He never did the heavy lifting, he never truly appreciated the pain he caused and rug swept it (but that means I rug swept it as well).

We don't fight though (never really have to be honest).

Can I forgive him? Enough to co parent our children in a civil manner for the sake of the children - absolutely.

Can I forgive him enough to trust him 100% - unfortunately, that answer is no.

He said the same thing - he wasn't (and isn't) truly looking for someone else or something else and yet he did what he did.

His actions did not reflect his words. 17 years together. I gave up and sacrificed my career, my 20s (a career I went to college for) ...we have a special needs child ourselves (autism spectrum).

So many similarities between your household and ours. I usually don't or try not to let a poster affect me directly but I have to admit both your wife and you have resonated so many similarities between your situation and mine that I can't help being affected.

Do the work, heavy lifting, don't rug sweep, acknowledge it to its fullest - acknowledge her and her pain and ask how can I help you today, this moment. Listen to what she is both saying and not saying.

When a woman gives up, she stops asking/speaking and goes silent. When a woman goes silent she has given up the fight.

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"The most beautiful words in any language: I forgive"
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post #100 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 09:21 AM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

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When a woman gives up, she stops asking/speaking and goes silent. When a woman goes silent she has given up the fight.
Worth reflecting on.

Fortunately for you, OP, your wife is not there. She is still very much trying.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #101 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 09:59 AM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

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Originally Posted by CantePe View Post

When a woman gives up, she stops asking/speaking and goes silent. When a woman goes silent she has given up the fight.


OP, this needed repeating. When the wife is silent, us guys think all is well. But nothing is further from the truth.

Silent is a warning sign. Remember that.
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post #102 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 12:01 PM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

fwiw, I think you have truly had your eyes opened, and the posts you made when you first came here are probably not your viewpoint now.

The danger I see now is that you are still looking at this in terms of 'how long do I have to go through this' instead of 'please tell me what else I can do that will help her'?

IIWY, focus on THAT. Have regular talks with her. Ask her what feels bad. What would make a difference. What would make her feel safe. Ask for specifics, and then just do them.

When a betrayed spouse first finds out the betrayal, they will often have to rehash it, day after day after day. Usually for months. Yes, months. And a truly remorseful WS will, yes, just sit there and take it. Because their spouse's healing is THE most important thing at the moment. If you're so uncomfortable on the couch, borrow someone's blowup bed. If you're horny, take care of yourself. Following her up the stairs is a no-no, until SHE feels safe enough around you.

And once this panic period is over, make sure that you: 1) go on regular dates somehow to bring back the romance and 2) have regular meetings, once a week or once a month, where you both speak VERY honestly about how the marriage is going, what you would change, what you like and don't like...so that neither of you ever starts withholding again.
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post #103 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 01:00 PM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

HB50

Until you have been cheated on you have no idea what turmoil this causes. You say you would be angry if your wife had done this, well you can add about a hundred emotions and you aren't even close to knowing what a betrayed spouse feels. The fact you hope your wife heals quicker then 2-5 years is an arrogant response. This clearly shows you have absolutely no idea about infidelity or its consequences.

You have asked for help, a moderator has said to be careful of the 2X4's, so I have gently said you are arrogant. You are in fact much worse, and to save your marriage you will need to self reflect on yourself. In the meantime your wife has seemed distant on what you post, and that shows me her resolve for fighting is diminishing fast. This means you will need to work on you and the marriage at the same time. From what you have posted, from the words you wrote, it appears to me they are just words and minimal actions at best.

That may seem harsh to you, but I guarantee it is harsher on your wife. You have stated you would be mad if your wife did this, that you would get over it before 2-5years passes, which is pure arrogance. Part of healing is to understand exactly what you have done, you have essentially killed your wife. Your wife will never be the same, your marriage died that day you began to "chat" with the OW. You need to build a new marriage now, and your posts show you aren't capable. I say this because you have no empathy, no compassion, and barely shown any sort of love. As for remorse, I don't think you have any with exception to the definition of the word.

My post may sting, my post may be regarded as a 2X4, but I assure you I have barely even touched on how harsh your affair was. You have asked for help and keep all of this about you. You say you need to think of her more and not yourself, but then your next post is about you again. My advice, have your wife seek therapy, then let her decide what she wants. It's her choice to make anyway, just as you chose to betray your family.
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post #104 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 01:56 PM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

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It sounds like you are doing your best here, OP. I feel kind of sorry for you. I believe you when you say you love your wife. I don't think you were trying to hurt her, though that is certainly what happened.



Please be as honest and open as possible with her, including why you did it, why you hid it, and why you did not, or possibly even do not, really understand why she is so upset by it. If you feel she has overreacted, you need to tell her that. Humbly and gently, for sure. But if it is your genuine feeling, she needs to hear that, and why.



You both need to give honesty, and be able to hear it, no matter how painful. That is how you will both grow from this incident. Transparency is powerful, and can heal. But it is often painful at first.



FWIW, I don't think you ever loved that woman. I do think you love your wife, and are showing her that love in a way that you consider meaningful. But she wants to be loved in a way that *she* considers meaningful. You two could have an interesting talk on how she feels you could best do that for her.



And please do not feel you have to say what TAM wants to hear. Say what you genuinely think, as you did with your title. Or feel free to say nothing. You do not need to please anyone here. You certainly do not owe us anything.



Thanks for being willing to come here and share your thoughts with us. You did not have to. I hope it helps you and your wife somehow.


I completely agree with this.
I think he broke a trust by doing something stupid and now had to suffer the consequences but he does love his wife.



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post #105 of 248 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 03:08 PM
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Re: Was What I Did Really That Bad?

OP, Iím not going to beat you up. But I want to give you some information.

My husband is a porn addict Ė undiagnosed of course Ė but all of the signs and symptoms are there. My husband has used/abused porn for the entire almost 11 years weíve been together. I never minded porn. At all. Iíve watched it myself. Iíd dated guys that watched it, I was married to one. But with my husband it was different. He told me he didnít need porn because he had me. I wholeheartedly and fully believed that. Thinking I was his everything. And for a man to not need porn because he had me? Man, I mustíve really been hot stuff in and out of the sack! He needed no fantasy because he had ME!

My world came crashing down when I came home one day, opened the internet, went to the history to find a page Iíd visited the day before and there was porn ALL OVER my computer. The very first thought in my head was ďIím NOT enoughĒ. Heíd told me he didnít need it because I was enough, but he was watching it so it must mean I WASNíT enough. I confronted him about lying about it. I got remorse and tears and sorryís and promises, but it never stopped. 11 years later Ė he still watches porn. The only thing thatís different now is that he doesnít hide it. But I dealt with him lying about it for close to 11 years. Heís only NOT lied and hid it for 7 months! 7 months does not erase the pain of 10 years. Each time felt like a betrayal. Each time FELT like cheating. Not because he watched porn. Heís a man. Men watch porn (as do some women) but because he lied about it. I wasnít worth the truth. The porn meant more to him then being honest with me or the fact that I felt betrayed every single time he lied about it. Some floozy on pornhub meant more than me trusting him and my self esteem and self worth. I began to see these women as REAL women he was actually cheating on me with. No, he never saw them in person, but these women were real enough to take away from my marriage and destroy me. I have body issues now, I have self esteem issues, every time I sleep with my husband Ė I wonder if Iím performing up to par with what he sees on the internet.

Through my research on porn addiction, I have discovered that it usually is used as a form of escape from reality and generally starts with a traumatic event. My husbands dad died when he was 15 years old Ė very violently and unexpectedly. Guess when my husband started watching porn? When he was 15. He has admitted he uses it as an escape from reality. It is his own personal escape where he doesnít have to worry about anyone elses feelings, pleasing anyone else, stress, etc. The ONLY thing he thinks about during that time is pleasure. To a certain extent OP, I understand this. But what I cannot understand or accept is the lying about it and hiding it. THAT is what makes it a betrayal.

I am explaining all of these things because I believe that what you did was an escape from reality. You used it to soothe yourself. And I am pretty sure your wife understands that. You didnít have to think about cancer during that time or anyone elseís feelings. You focused only on your pleasure and it was a nice distraction from life. But the thing is, on the other end of your phone was a REAL PERSON. Now, Iím sure you understand that that other person couldíve been a 400 pound man for all you know. But I am sure that you had a picture in your head of what this person looked like. Maybe she was blonde, about 5í8 with a ginormous rack and a youthful private arena. Maybe she was a big beautiful woman with curves for days. Maybe she looked like Angelina Jolie Ė who knows? The fact is, you most likely gave this person an identity and that identity was attached to a real person. And you spoke sexually with that real person. Just like I am typing this now and you are reading it Ė yes, it is anonymous because we canít SEE each other, but we are still real people behind these keyboards and phone screens.

Your wife mentioned you get worried when @turnera posts on your thread. I can see why. Sheís beat me upside the head a lot of times too, but she does it because she cares. My point is Ė you get worried when she posts because sheís a REAL PERSON behind the screen sheís posting from. She is telling you REAL things, REAL advice, REAL feelings. They are coming from a LIVE person. Thatís what you need to understand about what you did. Some people look at sexting the same as viewing porn and itís not. Viewing porn online IS real people, but these real people are performing for a camera, being paid to do a job, distributing their goods for men, women and couples to peruse at their leisure. Sexting with someone is a real person, sharing real time information, real time thoughts and feelings, real time turn ons and arousal. While they may have Ďjust been wordsí there were physical reactions to those words. You gave yourself sexual pleasure from those words. You turned to your wife for sexual gratification from those words. And all of those words were spoken by a REAL person, whom youíd manufactured in your mind to look like whatever fantasy you had. You replaced your wives physical body with the fantasy of the words that you spoke and read from another person. Your wife was the stunt double for the star.

I'll get through this, one day at a time.
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