The Charade - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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The Charade

I knew my WW was in an EA. I thought it was just that. Bad enough but I was foolish enough, blindly trusting enough, to think that it was just an EA and that it would pass. She would come to her senses. I also thought she was too good for that. She would never! Especially since her OM was married. She would not be that stupid on top of being morally bankrupt. She was a "good girl" and smart.

I was wrong about her. Eventually I found out it was a PA right from the start. I told the OM's wife. He threw WW under the bus. OM came crawling back later. Still does reach out to her even now, 6 years later, every few months. Her answer is typically to engage in a short exchange, ask if he is still married and then cut him off. I know she would rather be with him but she's learned her lesson about MMs.

I divorced her as quickly as I could. Took a year. We never separated though. Since he didn't want her, except as a side piece, I was good enough, a plan B for her.

Similarly for me, she was good enough for my plan B. Plan A was to have her never have cheated. She was good enough for Plan B bc if I moved out, I would lose my house and half of my time with my children, my children would lose their lifestyle, be subjected to god knows how many men coming in and out of their lives, and I would lose the best sex life anyone could imagine. So she was good enough for me, for now. We stayed together. Only our children and closest relatives know we are divorced.

I pay her spousal support. By the time the children are gone I should be about done with the support obligation. We talk semi-honestly about our relationship. She lies to me about not still wanting to be with the OM. I lie to her about us being together long term. We both know the truth. That leads to issues sometimes.

For the last 4 years, we have taken to pretending it isn't true, openly. We call it playing "The Charade." We fake it. We pretend to be as madly in love as we were when we first met. It is wonderful. It is intoxicating. I almost believe I could forgive her sometimes bc it feels so great in the moment. Then, usually when I'm away from her, I remember it is just pretend. I know I'm only doing the Charade till the kids are launched and the spousal support is paid down to a level where I can handle it and still maintain my lifestyle. It sure feels great though.

I wish it were real. I miss the relationship I thought we had. Before the affair, I thought it was true. I was not pretending. I don't think she ever knew the difference. I think she was always open to trading up.

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post #2 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 10:06 AM
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Re: The Charade

Sad story. The best sex of your life? I've found until I'm in love with someone and have been with them for a while and trust them, the sex isn't so great. Once I love the person, the sex is all I could ever want.

YOu are really wasting years not going to find someone else. It's really odd to me that you and she can have such great sex and her NOT be in love with you. Usually when a person is not in love with someone, the sex sucks. Apparently she may actually be in love with the other guy, but like you. Sadly, as you've noticed, the love just isn't there. It's hard to move on. You need to. You're wasting time that you could be spending with a woman who actually loves you.
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post #3 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 12:30 PM
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Re: The Charade

Whatever floats your boat. If you are doing it for the kids, then make the best of it I guess.

Have you two even attempted any kind of counseling?
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post #4 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 12:37 PM
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post #5 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 12:40 PM
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Re: The Charade

I do hope that you tell her that you intend to date openly as well...you should not deny yourself the prospect of finding someone to truly love...otherwise your short changing your self....btw the way kids can see right through it...also surprised you do not tell the OM wife the are still seeing each other.
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post #6 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Charade

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Originally Posted by Evinrude58 View Post
Sad story. The best sex of your life? I've found until I'm in love with someone and have been with them for a while and trust them, the sex isn't so great. Once I love the person, the sex is all I could ever want.
That is sort of true for me. I mean we had great sex from date #1. Too early to really be in love but we were infatuated. That has to be there to make it really good. Which is partly why we play the Charde. It feels like real good infatuation. Infatuation for a person I've known for 20 years.

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Originally Posted by Evinrude58 View Post
YOu are really wasting years not going to find someone else. It's really odd to me that you and she can have such great sex and her NOT be in love with you. Usually when a person is not in love with someone, the sex sucks. Apparently she may actually be in love with the other guy, but like you.
I think she is in love with me, to a degree. Its just she loves OM too and more. With him it is more about financial security. He earns easily 10 times what I do. Long before the A started she told me what her "type" is, physically. THis guy is the antithesis of that. But his income and charm, the charm of a very experainced player, was what she is into.

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Whatever floats your boat. If you are doing it for the kids, then make the best of it I guess.

Have you two even attempted any kind of counseling?
I'm doing it for the sex, for the kids, for the preservation of finances, for revenge on the OM, for so many reasons.

Last edited by EleGirl; 07-12-2018 at 04:14 AM.
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post #7 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 12:46 PM
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Re: The Charade

I wouldn't be too surprised if she starts pushing for a real relationship instead of the charade, once the spousal support and child support payments start to dwindle. You know, because they have been together for so long they may as well just make it normal again.
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post #8 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Charade

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I do hope that you tell her that you intend to date openly as well...you should not deny yourself the prospect of finding someone to truly love...otherwise your short changing your self....btw the way kids can see right through it...also surprised you do not tell the OM wife the are still seeing each other.
They are not still seeing each other. They text but very rarely. Although we are both open to other relationships, we have agreed to not actively pursue that option without letting the other know. I do think WW has turned a corner with respect to understanding that she acted immorally and beneath her own standards. She is truly ashamed of what she did and I doubt she will repeat it. Not that she would not leave me for a wealthier man, but she would not do it secretly.

There is nothing hidden from the kids. They know we are divorced and why. They know we are staying together for them, in part, and express appreciation about that sacrifice.

I did tell OM's wife a few times when he reached out again. This isn't her first time at the Rodeo though. This OM cheated on her at least 8 times before he did it with my WS. So she temporarily gets him under control and then he's back again.

Oh, and yes, counseling, before the A and after. No good. Worthless.
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post #9 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 01:02 PM
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Re: The Charade

Your initial post is odd. On the one hand, you seem resigned to this FWB relationship you have with your ex-wife and you do not seem to want to upset the status quo of this living arrangement you have with her. So I guess what I am asking is...are you wishing any guidance from us? Are you looking for validation that what you are doing is acceptable? You seem saddened and unsure about the whole thing.

Only you can tell yourself whether or not this situation is acceptable. You don't need our validation or approval. Most of us here would say that what you are living is an unhealthy situation...mentally and emotionally. However, if you and your exWW are able to keep the emotions out of the sex and work together to pay the bills, raise the kids, go to school functions together and do all the family things without actually loving each other, then more power to you both. Yours would not be the first "business-only" marriage. There have been millions of marriages throughout history between spouses who did not love each other romantically, but were still able to be effective marriage and parenting partners.

All I am saying is that I think you should get into some form of independent counseling in order to have someone who can listen to you and give you objective feedback for the feeling you are experiencing.
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post #10 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 01:18 PM
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Re: The Charade

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Originally Posted by One Eighty View Post
I knew my WW was in an EA. I thought it was just that. Bad enough but I was foolish enough, blindly trusting enough, to think that it was just an EA and that it would pass. She would come to her senses. I also thought she was too good for that. She would never! Especially since her OM was married. She would not be that stupid on top of being morally bankrupt. She was a "good girl" and smart.

I was wrong about her. Eventually I found out it was a PA right from the start. I told the OM's wife. He threw WW under the bus. OM came crawling back later. Still does reach out to her even now, 6 years later, every few months. Her answer is typically to engage in a short exchange, ask if he is still married and then cut him off. I know she would rather be with him but she's learned her lesson about MMs.

I divorced her as quickly as I could. Took a year. We never separated though. Since he didn't want her, except as a side piece, I was good enough, a plan B for her.

Similarly for me, she was good enough for my plan B. Plan A was to have her never have cheated. She was good enough for Plan B bc if I moved out, I would lose my house and half of my time with my children, my children would lose their lifestyle, be subjected to god knows how many men coming in and out of their lives, and I would lose the best sex life anyone could imagine. So she was good enough for me, for now. We stayed together. Only our children and closest relatives know we are divorced.

I pay her spousal support. By the time the children are gone I should be about done with the support obligation. We talk semi-honestly about our relationship. She lies to me about not still wanting to be with the OM. I lie to her about us being together long term. We both know the truth. That leads to issues sometimes.

For the last 4 years, we have taken to pretending it isn't true, openly. We call it playing "The Charade." We fake it. We pretend to be as madly in love as we were when we first met. It is wonderful. It is intoxicating. I almost believe I could forgive her sometimes bc it feels so great in the moment. Then, usually when I'm away from her, I remember it is just pretend. I know I'm only doing the Charade till the kids are launched and the spousal support is paid down to a level where I can handle it and still maintain my lifestyle. It sure feels great though.

I wish it were real. I miss the relationship I thought we had. Before the affair, I thought it was true. I was not pretending. I don't think she ever knew the difference. I think she was always open to trading up.
I wish I would have done this 20 years ago. Even though my wife didn't cheat on me.

Would be great to have divorced her a while ago, but not separate. That way, my wife wouldn't be entitled to everything that we have acquired since 'the divorce'. I would be done with spousal support. Life would have been no different. Sounds like sex might have even been better.


2/3s dead!
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post #11 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 01:23 PM
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Re: The Charade

180, so how does your arrangement work, do you still share the same bedroom? how old are the kids, meaning how much longer do you see yourself staying with this Charade ?
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post #12 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 01:29 PM
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Re: The Charade

Geeze, if my wife could be with someone making ten times what I do, I would help her pack her bags. I want what's best for her, after all. It would be supremely selfish to not encourage her to "move on up to the East Side", as it were.
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post #13 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 01:35 PM
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Re: The Charade

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Originally Posted by One Eighty View Post
They are not still seeing each other. They text but very rarely. Although we are both open to other relationships, we have agreed to not actively pursue that option without letting the other know. I do think WW has turned a corner with respect to understanding that she acted immorally and beneath her own standards. She is truly ashamed of what she did and I doubt she will repeat it. Not that she would not leave me for a wealthier man, but she would not do it secretly.

There is nothing hidden from the kids. They know we are divorced and why. They know we are staying together for them, in part, and express appreciation about that sacrifice.

I did tell OM's wife a few times when he reached out again. This isn't her first time at the Rodeo though. This OM cheated on her at least 8 times before he did it with my WS. So she temporarily gets him under control and then he's back again.

Oh, and yes, counseling, before the A and after. No good. Worthless.
What a shame that OM’s BW is such a doormat.....

Doubt he would be so ‘attractive’ of an OM to your WW or other women if half his income and assets disappeared like a fart in the wind as she divorced his scummy a**.

As for your situation....

If you can stomach living the facade of a fake ‘happy’ M, then stay the course.

I could never do it.

Be prepared though as the clock runs out for your exWW to try to hold on to you......she will be older, and her ‘value’ in the dating market is continuously decreasing every year......

She may love money more than you (apparently), and would ‘upgrade’ in a hot minute if she had the opportunity.....but by the time your kids are out, her chances of that will be minimal.....rich guys like her POSOM will be chasing much younger women.

So she will be facing a severe DECREASE in her standard of living if you leave as your alimony/support is ending.

Based on what you have said, if money/standard of living is that important to her, she is going to fight to keep it (meaning you).....

However.....it would only because she doesn’t want to take that hit.....not because she truly loves you.

Lucky for you, the D has already happened.

But be prepared for her to try to use the kids and painting you as a ‘bad’ guy to friends and family to guilt you into not cutting her loose.

There is one question I have though.....I know you are legally D now.....

But you continue to live with her in a ‘common law’ marital situation.

In some states, after 8 years, a common law relationship carries many of the same legal difficulties as a true M.....

Will you be past 8 years of common law M after the kids launch?

What is your state law on these issues?

Might you have to go through ANOTHER legal separation from your WW after the kids are out and you decide to leave?

Because, given your exWW’s focus on financials as you have described.....she will take you to the cleaners a second time if she has the opportunity.
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post #14 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 01:44 PM
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Re: The Charade

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What a shame that OM’s BW is such a doormat.....

Doubt he would be so ‘attractive’ of an OM to your WW or other women if half his income and assets disappeared like a fart in the wind as she divorced his scummy a**.

As for your situation....

If you can stomach living the facade of a fake ‘happy’ M, then stay the course.

I could never do it.

Be prepared though as the clock runs out for your exWW to try to hold on to you......she will be older, and her ‘value’ in the dating market is continuously decreasing every year......

She may love money more than you (apparently), and would ‘upgrade’ in a hot minute if she had the opportunity.....but by the time your kids are out, her chances of that will be minimal.....rich guys like her POSOM will be chasing much younger women.

So she will be facing a severe DECREASE in her standard of living if you leave as your alimony/support is ending.

Based on what you have said, if money/standard of living is that important to her, she is going to fight to keep it (meaning you).....

However.....it would only because she doesn’t want to take that hit.....not because she truly loves you.

Lucky for you, the D has already happened.

But be prepared for her to try to use the kids and painting you as a ‘bad’ guy to friends and family to guilt you into not cutting her loose.

There is one question I have though.....I know you are legally D now.....

But you continue to live with her in a ‘common law’ marital situation.

In some states, after 8 years, a common law relationship carries many of the same legal difficulties as a true M.....

Will you be past 8 years of common law M after the kids launch?

What is your state law on these issues?

Might you have to go through ANOTHER legal separation from your WW after the kids are out and you decide to leave?

Because, given your exWW’s focus on financials as you have described.....she will take you to the cleaners a second time if she has the opportunity.
In Canada, I have heard that living common law is considered equal to marriage at 3 months.

I agree, he might have to come up with another agreement if they have been living together. Courts might deem them as common law and will want them to split what they have accumulated since the divorce and he may have more spousal support.

2/3s dead!
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post #15 of 483 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 01:57 PM
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Re: The Charade

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In Canada, I have heard that living common law is considered equal to marriage at 3 months.

I agree, he might have to come up with another agreement if they have been living together. Courts might deem them as common law and will want them to split what they have accumulated since the divorce and he may have more spousal support.
Yeah.....details vary between states/jurisdictions.....but most (if not all) do have legal definitions and requirements for ‘common law’ relationships.

Would be a real shame for OP if he was to find out his ‘fake’ M for the sake of the kids ended up putting him back into legal obligations to his exWW.

You should consult your attorney OP.

It would really suck to have to ‘divorce’ the same cheating W TWICE.
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