Let's talk about limerence - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

User Tag List

 84Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 09:56 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: West Coast USA
Posts: 1,309
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtruck View Post
Because the good feelings were due doing bad things
Fondly remembering those feelings prevents owning what you did was bad
not owning hence not regretting those actions allows those bad actions to be repeated years later
I'm not following this. How does trying to keep that original spark alive create bad things? Are we living in a zero-sum world so the best we can hope for is a compromised mediocrity in which nobody gets hurt but nobody feels great about their marriage either?

Casual Observer is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 10:29 PM
Member
 
Faithful Wife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 16,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtruck View Post
Because the good feelings were due doing bad things
Fondly remembering those feelings prevents owning what you did was bad
not owning hence not regretting those actions allows those bad actions to be repeated years later
I'm not following this. How does trying to keep that original spark alive create bad things? Are we living in a zero-sum world so the best we can hope for is a compromised mediocrity in which nobody gets hurt but nobody feels great about their marriage either?
I mean, I don’t really get it either. My exh and I had limerance all through our relationship, every day.

And I don’t think I would want to be in a new relationship without it. To me that’s the fun part! It makes me happy to see him every day, makes me have things to look forward to all the time (just getting home to see him after work, for instance).

I have sometimes heard people say that they would not like to feel that high, giddy feeling forever. They say it would get exhausting.

It was never exhausting to me, it was awesome. We both talked about how we loved feeling that way.

But if we weren’t both into feeling it, if one of us lost that feeling, probably the other one would have eventually also. But there was something about the match up of us that made it possible to continue these feelings.

Since then, I did have one boyfriend who I felt that way about consistently and he did also. I’m not sure if it was tested out long enough, but that gave me the faith that when I meet the right person, they will also have whatever that thing is that helps us keep the flame stoked forever.

I’m thinking that if a couple had this and it disappeared within a short time, then they probably don’t have that thing in them, or one of them doesn’t. I’m not sure it can be stoked without that quality.

The only thing I’ve found that seemed to be a hint in knowing who might have this feeling long term with me is that they, like me, are very affectionate. Like holding hands or touching each other casually all the time. People I have dated who were not affectionate, I did not feel that sparkly thing for them. Like there was something that was not a match enough to bring that out of me.

Also I stopped dating anyone right away if I found they are not affectionate. It’s now a red flag for me that we are not going to be a match.
Faithful Wife is online now  
post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 06:03 AM
Member
 
MJJEAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: MI
Posts: 4,191
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithful Wife View Post
I have sometimes heard people say that they would not like to feel that high, giddy feeling forever. They say it would get exhausting.

It was never exhausting to me, it was awesome. We both talked about how we loved feeling that way.
I've found it energizing instead of exhausting. It's a feedback loop. The limerenc-y feelings give us the energy to adult and still be able to devote time to each other daily and then we feed that energy back to the relationship during the time we're spending together. Not to mention that energy can be channeled into useful tasks while we're waiting to be together.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.
MJJEAN is online now  
 
post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 01:56 PM
Member
 
bandit.45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 19,435
Re: Let's talk about limerence

It's nothing more than dopamine addiction.
bandit.45 is offline  
post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 02:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: West Coast USA
Posts: 1,309
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Quote:
Originally Posted by bandit.45 View Post
It's nothing more than dopamine addiction.
And one dopamine addiction (love) can be replaced by another (porn or games). I don't buy the idea that a dopamine addiction is bad per se. Depends upon the addiction and the ability/willingness of someone to fuel it (in the case of love). Sure, love is paved with ups and downs, it will never be a constant high. But those downs can help you to recognize how awesome the ups are. The ingredient that keeps us going through the downs is hope. Hope that tomorrow may see today's missed opportunity come to life.

I am increasingly coming to recognize that lack of hope, lack of being able to anticipate something good/fun/pleasurable, is key to things falling apart. A pre-dopamine state of being I guess?
Casual Observer is online now  
post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 04:57 PM
Member
 
2ntnuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,837
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Always used to think the fog was after a sexual encounter with an AP.

Also, the title of the thread made me think of the commercial for gummy bears. What flavor is limerence? lol

I believe it's just a rush of chemicals to the brain. Some of which cause bonding. Others simply make us feel good for a little while. Thank you to those who responded. No hate from me

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson
"Youth is wasted on the young". - George Bernard Shaw

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2ntnuf is offline  
post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 06:15 PM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 17,974
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJEAN View Post
As a former WS who has spent serious time IRL and online talking to other WS's, I have to agree here.

Just because you meet someone and are in limerence, defined as "a state of mind which results from a romantic attraction to another person and typically includes obsessive thoughts and fantasies and a desire to form or maintain a relationship with the object of love and have one's feelings reciprocated" doesn't mean you get invaded by body snatchers or get lobotomized and suddenly become incapable of knowing right from wrong or become incapable of self control.

I don't know a single cheater who didn't know exactly what they were doing or exactly what they were risking. Some didn't think they'd ever get caught and the rest simple didn't really care.

Let's just call it what it is instead of pretending it's some kind of temporary insanity. It's being sexually and emotionally/mentally attracted to someone and deciding to act on it. No more or less.
Before, they are more rational, except once they decide they want to cheat, they start to sift through their marriage, and start to pull out all the things they didn't like. And then magnify them. Obsess about them. It's a fixation that Jack doesn't pick up his shoes or Jane wears sweat pants to bed. Or whatever. The point is, the rationalization engine is in high gear, giving the person an extremely distorted view of the marriage. Reality is not what it seems any more. Not only have they been wronged by the marriage, their spouse is an inconsiderate *******. And they deserve to have some joy in their life after having all their happiness sucked out of them by their terrible spouse!

During, they're on a high. They're getting laid like tile. They're sexting. They're getting all this dopamine and orgasms and the thrill of getting away with it. They're on a high, and everything's working! Everybody's been lying to them all this time - they can, in fact, have their cake and eat it, too! Their spouses are frequently happy because they're happier. They're often having more sex with their spouse, often paying more attention to their appearance, often acting more confidently. It's like all is suddenly right with the world, and they've been told a lie by everyone that said cheating is bad. And to top it off, they're getting constant affirmations, complements, and attention - from two (or more) people! Life is good and anybody that tells them otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

After, they crash. They "wake up" from "being in a fog." They don't recognize themselves. They don't know how they could have done this, they frequently say "it felt like I was someone else." They "never stopped loving their spouse" even though objectively, they did. They "didn't mean to hurt anyone" when objectively, they risked it willingly. They will "do anything to make it right" which usually lasts from 2 weeks to 2 months, where it becomes too much work and "why can't you just get over it." At this point, it's usually dead in my experience and everybody walks away. Or the person that got cheated on starts to take the blame. Or the person cheating starts rationalizing again about someone else... because their spouse "just won't get over it."

To be rational, you have to live in reality. It's kinda necessary. Most cheaters dip into reality and out of it when it suits them, which leads to delusion. They're also very good at rationalization and lying to themselves, so sometimes they don't even know what reality is any more.

I'm not speaking of everyone of course. Just some generalities I've noticed up close and personal.
Marduk is online now  
post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 07:14 PM
Member
 
2ntnuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,837
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Maybe you saw my thread in private, @Marduk? Pretty much proved all of that in one 10 minute conversation.

I came back just to look. I think I'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread. Those realities hit me hard tonight. Thank you. I needed to remember, but don't need to dwell on them.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson
"Youth is wasted on the young". - George Bernard Shaw

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2ntnuf is offline  
post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 07:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Midwest/Plains
Posts: 1,680
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
. I don't buy the idea that a dopamine addiction is bad per se. Depends upon the addiction and the ability/willingness of someone to fuel it (in the case of love)
And CO this is not against you in any way..

I agree to a point but say you're in a sexless marriage. And you must satisfy oneself does a person stop after one lone encounter with themselves. No the charge is still there the anticipation of meeting the need. Is repeated time and time again. Is why limerence is it's own high and the lousy cheating spouse needs it just like a junkie does. There is no honor in that state of mind, just total gross personal satifisfiction regardless who it hurts or the cost. But the the cheating spouse says that they can love more than one to justify it daily as if a normal thing to do. It is what it is those types are mental unstable regardless of what they say.

I didn't even want to post sheesh.,...

If your not the object of your lovers heart, then your just an object.
If you think the grass is greener on the otherside it's not, what you see are the weeds.

Last edited by Tilted 1; 09-23-2019 at 08:34 PM. Reason: Correction
Tilted 1 is online now  
post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 09:49 PM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 17,974
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
Maybe you saw my thread in private, @Marduk? Pretty much proved all of that in one 10 minute conversation.

I came back just to look. I think I'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread. Those realities hit me hard tonight. Thank you. I needed to remember, but don't need to dwell on them.
Sorry, I didnít mean to cause you pain.

Marduk is online now  
post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 12:04 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 10,639
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Limerence is just the initial attraction and excitement and attraction of the beginnings of a relationship. That deep desire to want to be with someone. You can have that with any relationship. You are just supposed to stop yourself from acting on it when you are married. You can have this with lots of people so it's nothing special either.


It's certainly not love.

That's the thing, people think that love is the all encompassing desire to be with someone, but that's not love because that need is selfish. Love is not selfish. Desire is, lust is. That is what people mistake for love. Songs are written about that feeling and they also mistake it for love. Again it's not.

But that explains why someone can think they are in "LOVE" with their AP, and then once they get caught they turn on a dime and now feel deep "LOVE" for their spouse. My contention is that type of person has no idea what love is, they mistake the feeling of desperately wanting to be with someone as love.

This is how limerence works too.
sokillme is offline  
post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 06:53 AM
Member
 
MJJEAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: MI
Posts: 4,191
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
After, they crash. They "wake up" from "being in a fog." They don't recognize themselves. They don't know how they could have done this, they frequently say "it felt like I was someone else."
Ok, Ima say it. This is nothing less than blameshifting. Rather than blameshift toward the other spouse, they blameshift toward "the fog".

"I was in a fog! It's like it wasn't me! I was in the clutches of the limerence and couldn't control myself. It was like I was possessed! I didn't recognize myself."

The theme here is appearing to take responsibility for the affair while at the same time lessening that responsibility by blaming "the fog". The reality is, if the mind was so addled they also wouldn't have been able to manage the logistics of having and concealing the affair. Hell, if they were so addled they couldn't understand what they were doing, couldn't understand the possible consequences, and couldn't control themselves, they'd be unable to manage driving, working, or tying their own shoes.

You know how there are some things you just don't say, even if they're true, because it's just too honest? Because, once it's said things change forever and not in a good way?

"Does this dress make my butt look big?" Very few people being asked this question are going to say "Well, yes. The cut, type, and color of that fabric just doesn't flatter your figure and you could stand to lose a few pounds."

In an infidelity situation, when asked "Why, how, did you allow yourself to do that to me? To us?" very few people are going to tell the flat out truth. "Because I really, really, wanted to and then it was just a matter of logistics."


Quote:
Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
But that explains why someone can think they are in "LOVE" with their AP, and then once they get caught they turn on a dime and now feel deep "LOVE" for their spouse.
Cheaters get something from their primary relationship. That's why they have affairs rather than end the primary relationship and date as a single person. They don't want to lose what they're getting from their primary relationship, but they also want whatever they will get from the affair. Once the affair is ended all they have left is the primary. Cue deep love for primary.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.
MJJEAN is online now  
post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 01:29 PM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 17,974
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJEAN View Post
Ok, Ima say it. This is nothing less than blameshifting. Rather than blameshift toward the other spouse, they blameshift toward "the fog".

"I was in a fog! It's like it wasn't me! I was in the clutches of the limerence and couldn't control myself. It was like I was possessed! I didn't recognize myself."

The theme here is appearing to take responsibility for the affair while at the same time lessening that responsibility by blaming "the fog". The reality is, if the mind was so addled they also wouldn't have been able to manage the logistics of having and concealing the affair. Hell, if they were so addled they couldn't understand what they were doing, couldn't understand the possible consequences, and couldn't control themselves, they'd be unable to manage driving, working, or tying their own shoes.
I donít disagree. Itís commonly reported though, and an interesting topic to explore without just discarding it wholecloth.

Sex and rationalization is a powerful cocktail.
Marduk is online now  
post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 03:12 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,724
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Quote:
Originally Posted by She'sStillGotIt View Post
UGH.

The nonsense "fog" excuse that so many BS's desperately cling to. They serve this nonsense up by the pound over on SI.

Betrayed spouses delude themselves by thinking their cheater was 'in the fog' when they cheated on them. I think it makes the BS feel better thinking their cheater didn't have any control over their behavior rather than face the fact that their cheater made ALL the decisions they made because they wanted to - period. Why have none of them ever thought about the fact that in order to be IN the fog, their cheater had to make many many decisions to GET to that point? Do they think the guy was reading his Bible at lunch and this magical fog just randomly rolled in, lifted him up, threw him at some woman and took all control of his emotions from him - all against his will???? I mean, come on.

While I agree that lots of folks - affair or not - can experience 'limerance' to some degree, it's not a certainty, and it's definitely no excuse for the lies and betrayal a cheater CHOOSES to engage in when they decide to cheat on their spouse. More so, not every cheater is LOOKING for romance and feelings. There are PLENTY of them out there just looking for a good time and nothing more, and the mythical 'fog' isn't even a part of the equation.
Too simplistic, but a lot of good stuff.

I agree that cheating is a choice. I agree that limerance does not excuse it. But I also think it catches some cheaters by surprise, and in part explains some decisions and weird thought processes in the cheating spouse.

You also point out different cheaters are looking for different things. I agree with that too. That plays into whether a marriage can be saved after an affair, in my thinking.
Wazza is offline  
post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 03:18 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,724
Re: Let's talk about limerence

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJEAN View Post
As a former WS who has spent serious time IRL and online talking to other WS's, I have to agree here.

Just because you meet someone and are in limerence, defined as "a state of mind which results from a romantic attraction to another person and typically includes obsessive thoughts and fantasies and a desire to form or maintain a relationship with the object of love and have one's feelings reciprocated" doesn't mean you get invaded by body snatchers or get lobotomized and suddenly become incapable of knowing right from wrong or become incapable of self control.

I don't know a single cheater who didn't know exactly what they were doing or exactly what they were risking. Some didn't think they'd ever get caught and the rest simple didn't really care.

Let's just call it what it is instead of pretending it's some kind of temporary insanity. It's being sexually and emotionally/mentally attracted to someone and deciding to act on it. No more or less.
But that is (I think) one serial cheater discussing their journey with other serial cheaters. Is that right?

Doesnít invalidate the point you are making. I just wonder if it is true of every cheater in the same way. Whether it was as true the first time you cheated as the last.

The very fact you discussit suggests you had a need to understand it. Is that fair?
Wazza is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome