9 years ago - Page 9 - Talk About Marriage
Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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post #121 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 11:17 PM
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Re: 9 years ago

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Originally Posted by Avgman View Post
Yes, I assume it's low self-esteem, my wife is a nice looking woman...I'm average, maybe...the friend was not a good looking guy....it was a reason she was his 3rd woman at his age...I don't understand this part, most of what I've read is they go for something better...

I was a manager, he was an operator, I was established, he's was literally paycheck to paycheck and depending on his wife where I was the bread winner. I'm the country boy that she likes, he was the mixed between thing wanna be and hill Billy, he was the drunk alcoholic that was like her ex husband, I'm the guy everyone looks up to (not trying to be conceited) just a fact...

One of our last arguments about this was a ride through the country...I was hunting one night and my ex best friends wife had text me, it was late and she was telling me how she wished her husband was more like me... she text me often, I always blew it off and said he was a good guy and it was all okay...the reality was I probably could have been hooking up with his wife all along but I'm not that guy....

When we discovered what happened this was on the table in full affect, of I turned it down... sometimes I think would it have made all this easier if I'd just went on and done it... I'm glad I didn't, it wasn't the right thing to do...
Yes, this happens as well. So does your thought of a revenge affair.

Sorry, no, what you read is not always true, not by a long shot. We have multiple threads and news stories which prove better looking and well paid do not matter during an affair. It is called “Affaring down.” Yes, many affairs include steps down in looks and lower pay.


Last edited by phillybeffandswiss; 10-19-2019 at 12:16 AM.
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post #122 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-18-2019, 11:21 PM
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Re: 9 years ago

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Sokillme, I was actually the best man at his wedding...this was right after a back surgery that went wrong and I wasn't even supposed to stand up for a few more weeks. I actually checked out of the hospital just to make it to the wedding....

I did a lot for this dude, not as much as she did I guess. He was new at the plant,had no friends, no money...I took him into our home, I hung out with him as tight as brothers...I helped him get ahead at the plant, all of my friends came to his house warming, his wedding, etc... I even helped him get on a team in an effort to save the plant, I remember the day I suggested it, he was at her work with his tongue down her throat that morning...we had just talked 20 mins prior....he worked with me and the wife worked about 5 minutes from the plant, so he would go see her in the mornings when he got off.
You are married to that guy in the female form. In fact she's worse as she was your wife so she had more responsibility. As folks go not much difference between your wife and that guy.

You hear all the time that the BS has to eat a **** sandwich, but most of the time the WS -- IS the **** sandwich.
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post #123 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 12:53 AM
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Re: 9 years ago

Avgman, why don't you study up on interrogation techniques and body language to indicates deception before any more confrontations with her.

"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.
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post #124 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 09:35 AM
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Re: 9 years ago

I say nobody gets the full truth. In reality, some people do, a very few, maybe less than 1%. But it's almost impossible to get the full truth. Even if you know all the hard facts, you never get to see what was inside her head. Even if you got her diary, her journal, would it be the full truth? Probably not.

The cheaters lie to the affair partner, too. The cheating wife usually is motivated by the emotional "feelings." The cheating wife will lie to the affair partner, the cheating wife will lie to herself, to keep getting the "feelings" coming. The feelings the cheating wife wants usually is feeling desired, feeling feminine, feeling a sexual, romantic being, feeling validation of their looks, their desirability. Doesn't that feel good for everyone? Maybe not enough for you to cheat to get it, but for your wife, and for many others, including husbands, too, that's a big part of it. Your wife does not seem all that motivated by sex, but she was willing to trade the sex for the feelings.

Your loser friend who you tried to help, your wife didn't care about anything else than the fact that he wanted her in a way she hadn't felt from you. That may or may not be true, but that was what your wife felt. That was her feeling. Typically as husband and wife in a longer-term marriage, especially with kids in the house, romance and sexuality gets compartmentalized to the last thing to do, and one or the other of you is too tired by the time it gets there. You talk about how the baby or kid is, if the child is sick, behaving well or not, having friends or not, coordinating the birthday parties and such the kid has to attend, school issues, finance issues, chores, cars, jobs, extended family members, etc., etc., etc. How do you separate that from when it is time for romance?

Compare that with the affair partner. The affair partner and your cheater focus completely on romance and sex and I love you's. You the betrayed fool, is the babysitter, so the two cheaters can focus only on their sex and "feelings." It's an escape, it's an addiction, it's a vacation from reality. Yet it seems real to the cheaters at that time. Frequently, I don't say most, the guy is motivated largely by sex. There is an emotional feeling of being wanted, of being able to get this committed woman, being wanted more than the boss, who has a lot more money and status, so the affair partner guy thinks he must really be the hottest guy around, a real gift to women because he doesn't have the same other things in life than you. Or he thinks himself more skillful than you in being a player. Very typical these guys drop the married cheating woman as soon as the gig's up. He doesn't really like her that much other than the sex, too much work to give her all those feelings, when all he wants to do is have the sex, he doesn't want the baggage of her and her kids and her wanting to be provided financially. I think deep down all those involved know this, but the cheating wife sometimes is lying to herself, optimistically thinking "why would he say he loved me if he didn't reallly" when she does know that some guys might lie to get in a woman's pants, but by that time she's already painted him as a really nice, honest, stand-up guy.

Did your wife really want to drop whatever she's doing to go be with this guy at a moment's notice like the post you read she told him? Maybe, but probably not, but she wanted to keep him giving her those feelings. Did you think he really wanted to text her a thousand times every day? No, but that was a price to get what he wanted. She wanted all that attention. How validating could it be, some guy texts her a thousand every day to tell her how he wants her, send me some pics, I can't wait to do it with you again, you're so hot and pretty, blah blah blah, and she says "why would he invest so much time if he really didn't love me?"

I have my own sad story, I've read a lot about others, both people I know in person, and reading so much online, that these things are fairly predictable. It is both disturbing and reassuring to see how predictable people are given similar situations. That's not just true about infidelity. But you as a "9 years later" guy posting on an anonymous forum, I could probably go and easily find a dozen or so "5 years later" or "12 years later" or whatever, and every guy is posting basically the same as yours, saying the wife is sorry, but they don't feel like they got the whole truth, they don't want to blow up their life over it, conflicted, still bothers them, they never bring it up with their cheater. These cheaters are not bad people. If you divorced your wife, you'd go out with women eventually and you'd never know. After divorce, your wife would meet a guy quick, she can't be without a man in her life too long, never has been I'd bet, and I'm pretty sure she would never tell the guy about the cheating unless she said stuff like "it was a rocky time, he showed no interest in me, I thought he didn't care about me" and basically blamed you for it. But likely she never tells the next guy at all.

You are not immune to lying to yourself, either. There is a reason you posted now 9 years later. You reached a point of "this isn't getting better and I thought it would." Like a small physical ailment that's not healing, at some point, you reach out for the doctor. Maybe you go online first and read to find out what the problem is, what others have had it, and is there a fix for me.
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post #125 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 05:31 PM
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Re: 9 years ago

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Originally Posted by Avgman View Post
I remember the day I suggested it, he was at her work with his tongue down her throat that morning...we had just talked 20 mins prior....he worked with me and the wife worked about 5 minutes from the plant, so he would go see her in the mornings when he got off.
See, even after everything everyone has said, you still think it was his tongue...

HIS TONGUE WAS NOT DOWN her throat, it was another body part...

Dude, just file for divorce. She is never going to tell the truth, you don't have the balls to make her take a poly, and you are not healing.

If this is what you want for your life, god bless you.

If you want a real life, file for D and move on...
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post #126 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 07:15 PM
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Re: 9 years ago

I have read a couple of his last posts. Avgman will be here a year from now with the same problem.
post #127 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 07:32 PM
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Re: 9 years ago

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You are not immune to lying to yourself, either. There is a reason you posted now 9 years later. You reached a point of "this isn't getting better and I thought it would." Like a small physical ailment that's not healing, at some point, you reach out for the doctor. Maybe you go online first and read to find out what the problem is, what others have had it, and is there a fix for me.
To me it kind of works that way. When the WS has an affair they live compartmentalized and kind of ignoring reality, and for the BS to R they have to do the same to a certain extent.

You hear all the time that the BS has to eat a **** sandwich, but most of the time the WS -- IS the **** sandwich.
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post #128 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 08:01 PM
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Avgman. I am in the midst of something similar to you right now. A little different but similar. A couple months ago I found out about a 6 month physical affair that my then girlfriend, now wife, had while we were together 8 years ago. It feels like it happened 2 months ago and has been the worst thing that’s ever happened to me. We are doing lots of work and talking more openly than we ever have. I’m not sure where we will end up but we are both committed to the process, with the ball in my court if/when to call it quits. One thing you’ve heard here a lot and I will echo is that you need the truth or you’ll be stuck. Hearing the truth hurt me a lot, but gone are the sneeking suspicions. It allows you to attempt recovery starting from a place of honesty.

As for getting the truth. Do not “ask” for it. That hasn’t worked and likely won’t work. It didn’t work for me. Tell her “I know for certain that I don’t have the truth from you about what happened 9 years ago.” Tell her you are certain there is more to the story and then ask her to talk. This may be hard but you also have to tell her that added details won’t make you more angry, more hurt. In all reality they may, but giving her some assurance that the truth will be taken by you as a positive thing will get you further than threatening to fly off the handle. Attempt to make her feel safe with telling you the truth. This may take a few conversations. Trust your gut and look for a coherent story that “makes sense”. If she admits to being with him 20 times but says sex happened once, you probably haven’t reached the truth. Once you have it, there will be some relief that the truth is finally out, followed by intense pain that on top of doing this, they lied to you for many years. It’s kind of a catch 22.

The second thing I’d suggest is getting into a good marriage counselor. Go by yourself, go with your wife, but go there and talk about these things. Much of the advice you have been given here is good, but isn’t a replacement for talking to an expert face to face. Maybe go to one first by yourself. Explain your situation, then have your wife come in and see if they can help her being open with you. Long after you have the truth you will need to talk about her motivations/justifications for doing this. Getting the truth is the important first step, but working on this stuff goes way beyond just knowing what happened and then being all good after that. Good luck.
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post #129 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 09:01 PM
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Re: 9 years ago

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Yes, I believe what your saying...I just spent 2 hours on the lawnmower thinking about every post I've read on here... sometimes in think we are blinded by what we want to believe and cannot see the truth. I think I know the truth but will never get it from her, when I ask she swears she has told me absolutely everything...she has definitely fabricated up some good lies, the post on Facebook about liking it and doing it wherever the mood strikes is about a pocket book she says...haha, like I said, this is hours before they road around and ended up at a local park for hours while I was working this night. Her family doesn't care...her mom and dad are split, her mom runs threw men like I drink water and her brother who is only 30 has been divorced twice...they all knew, hell, her mom would come over and watch out son and let her use her car to go meet up...the night they met at the park her mom and I actually talked for a long time before I left for work...this probably made the wife upset because she had plans. But I was telling the mom how I'd been in a bad mood lately because our plant was closing and I was the only income, I knew it was going to be tough for us. She says y'all will be okay, now get to work...for f sake, 10 mins later she's pushing her daughter out the door to do his knows what with him...

We were thinking of doing something alone next weekend, I may try to get something out of her then...

Thinking about just straight up saying I don't care about other details except for the truth about what I think, the bon fire, the night at the park and our house while I w as working...what exactly will knowing this do? I'm not sure, will it leave me wanting more if she confirms she was lying this whole time? Maybe I do get something more , I will find out I guess.
In bold. Self awareness is critically important for the BS. You can paralyze yourself by declaring her truthfulness is what will un-blind you. You know it. No need to have her validate it, as that will only weaken you. Very important thing to know and remember. A wayward spouse .......

  • will lie with a hand on the bible to save her/his reputation and tell you they're telling you the truth
  • will maintain a lie for decades and live with themselves.
  • is empowered by you asking, insisting or begging for the truth because it's clear that if you're still with them and reconciling, then it's removed their incentive to be truthful, if they really want to be with you. The moment you choose to move on with your life is the moment you may be closer to knowing what you wish to know. It's really on you, not her and she knows it.
  • will choose you being in pain and discomfort for years and decades and still choose her/him self. Your pain means nothing to them.
  • Preservation of their reputation is 10 times stronger than reducing your pain and anguish.
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post #130 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 10:13 PM
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Re: 9 years ago

If someone can answer the question, "If someone gives a followup and corrected statement on their true and entire story how are you going to know it the true and entire story?" I'd appreciate it. It sounds as if youre setting an unattainable goal for yourself and there will always be a question if you really got the truth.


"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.
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post #131 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-19-2019, 11:33 PM
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You haven’t gotten over it because you never really dealt with it. You were/are plan B. She wanted him. That didn’t work out so she settled for you. You can’t get past this because you know that’s true and it’s slowly killing you like cancer. There is a cure though.
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post #132 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 03:16 AM
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Re: 9 years ago

HI there
Sorry you are here. I am chipping in because 9 years ago I was in a very similar position. I Divorced her after 18 months. I don't regret it as it allows space in your life for new things to happen.

I am not saying that you should Divorce her but you should consider what you want out of life. Your kids are seeing you suffer. They are also seeing your wife go through the motions.

Is this really what you want out of life. is this it? Do your kids deserve to see you happy and free. Their Mother freed from "obligation"

Life is short.
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post #133 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 07:07 AM
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Re: 9 years ago

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She is never going to tell the truth, you don't have the balls to make her take a poly, and you are not healing.
@Avgman

I was a wayward wife in my first marriage. 9 years after the fact I would not have been able to recall details like how many times, when, where, was there oral, ect, even if my life depended on it! Your wife clearly didn't give you the full truth back then and, after 9 years, she may be incapable of giving you the full truth now, even if she wanted to.

You know they had an affair. You know they had sex multiple times. You know your wife betrayed you and lied to you repeatedly during the affair. You know she concealed the full truth after. That's all you need to know. The details really don't matter in the end. If you can stay married knowing what you know, then let it go. If you can't, then leave guilt free. You were betrayed, not the betrayer.

Think of it like this. A company chooses to operate unsafely and there is a chemical industrial incident. A clean-up crew agree to take the job of clearing the land of contaminants and diligently set to work using all available techniques. After some time has passed, it is discovered the ground is too contaminated and cannot be cleaned. Should the clean up crew feel guilty? Of course not! They didn't spill those chemicals.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.
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post #134 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 02:25 PM
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Re: 9 years ago

Avgman needs an complete answer to one key question that embeds virtually all the other questions he may have and is the one he really wants to know. "Why did you have an affair?"

"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.
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post #135 of 163 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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We had a good conversation last night, she still says that's all that happened and she would tell me if there was more....

She was dining last night which is rarity.

She says she cheated because he said all the right stuff, of course he did, I was unknowingly coaching him. He was literally asking me what kind of stuff I'd tell my wife, he said he needed advise because his marriage wasn't going the best, even with a kid on the way. I even told him things to try sexually, obviously I didn't know he was using this on the wife. She literally told me it was like US in the beginning.
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