I know. And he wasn't even committing, just saying he wanted to decide together whether or not we move forward with divorce or commit to reconciliation.

I told him that i couldn't answer him right then and that I'd still want him to stay out of the house for now, and also did mention that i know he'd still be seeing her at work.

He said he will start right now looking for another job.

He also said he made us another counseling appointment for next week.

Then after he left he sent a text asking if I'd go to the movies with him one night this week.
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There's no way I would have him call her in front of me. I'd lose my sh!t. If somehow we are to come to a decision of reconciliation, I will definitely make him write a letter and post it here for you guys to review.

But I honestly don't know if that's going to even come to that. Seeing him cry really tugs at my heart, but like some people already said here, maybe that's what he's trying to do.

Maybe I'll never really trust him, even if I want to believe I could.
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To the movie - "no"

Nothing more.

All these other things BEFORE anything else.

Also - these should be inalterable demands on your part. Then and only then, you will begin to evaluate what you need before you CONSIDER reconciliation.

Movies - that's denial and rug-sweeping.

I don't think he has the character to be open, honest and even considerate enough to warrant an attempt at R

By all these things - I meant the things other TAM member stipulated before considering R

I hope you are not going to go to a movie with him. This would be rewarding him and feeding into his cake eating.

You are worth a lot more than what he is offering you at this point. He needs to do a lot of work before you should be giving him the time of day.

He is still trying to have both you and the other woman.

.

IMHO, it would be very disrespectful to you to have to be in on such a phone call.

The reason for the no contact letter is that any in person or phone no contact "meeting" just gives the cheating spouse and their affair partner another chance to talk about their feelings for each other. So it seldom ends an affair. Only leads to the need for yet another phone call or another in-person meeting.

It take a lot of work on his part to prove that he could be trusted. He seem to be a very manipulative person. Is that his normal way of being towards you?

I told him I'm not going to the movies with him. But that I will go to the counseling appointment with him next week.

I definitely need to see him make an effort, and prove something to me... because the more I think about it, the more I feel like he's doing things he knows will play on my sympathy and good nature in order for him to try to maintain what he has going on.
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That's the thing! He's never been close to this way towards me. Never manipulative at all. He was always the type to go out of his way to be kind to me, surprise me with something if I wasn't feeling well, give me a card just because, stop by my job on his way home to bring me coffee. A real sweetheart and a gentleman. I've known him 10 years.

Now that's not to say I haven't caught him in lies, with his manic episodes there's been issues. But I always tried to be understanding and never held it against him.

Unless it's possible that I've just had blinders on for a decade
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Well, I had blinders on, or at least rose coloured glasses on, for my whole marriage, so yeah, it's possible.

For this reconciliation to have a chance, he needs to be 100% remorseful, of his own volition, because he's realized his mistake. He needs to cut off contact with the other woman, including changing jobs, and do whatever is needed to earn your trust back. He has to think of these things on his own, not because you or a marriage counsellor told him they were important.

Do you think he's telling you what he thinks you want to hear, or telling you honestly what he thinks and feels?

Here's a great site you shouldn't let him see. Real Remorse? Or Genuine Imitation Naugahyde Remorse? - ChumpLady.com

Yes it is possible that you have had blinders on for a decade.

That is what 'being in love' does to us. Our body/brain produces and uptakes a lot of oxytocin when we are 'in love'. That is the hormone that makes us feel attached to someone and in love. It is also called the amnesia hormone. Why? Well it's the one a woman's body puts out by the bucket load when they give birth. That's why women do not really recall the depth of the pain of child birth. Oxytocin keeps us in lala land... we see our mate through rose colored glasses.

Men's bodies produce it too, mostly during sex. Which is why a lot of sex is good in marriage. It's also produced when a couple does a lot of non-sexual bonding.. like talking, snuggling, etc. It keeps the couple bonded and in love. And it makes them not see each other's flaws quite as clearly.

It's pretty easy to tell when a couple has lost their bond. For example after they have stopped spending a lot of time together and the sex falls off. Then the oxytocin levels fall. At that point we see people who complain about everything their spouse does. They start to see the flaws. and we see both men and women not want sex with their partner. When oxytocin gets really low, people do not want their partner to touch them. The rose colored glasses are off at that point.

You got it right on both counts. If he wants you, now he has to WORK for it. I hope for your sake he makes the effort, but if not, you seem like a very decent, worthy woman so don't worry. There will be plenty of decent men interested in you should you decide to divorce.

Good luck and stay strong. I've been there; you will be just fine.

YES. Chump Lady can help you put things in perspective real quick. She cuts through all the BS your H is doing and saying.

I think you would be wise to quit doing the pick-me dance. It's not your H's decision to make. It's yours, all yours.

He's got it made! He's a cake-eater galore.

Sorry to jump in late on this one, I have been off TAM for a few months. I don't want to say all people are the same but your spouse might be my STBXH twin! I feel your husband might have narcissist personality disorder, he can be charming and loving, but selfish at the same time. He worries the most about what others think of him and worst of all he will NEVER have the ability to feel empathy.

Have you ever discussed a possibility of a personality disorder with your MC without him present? I would suggest you get a professional opinion, if you are dealing with a personality disorder then you really need to educate yourself.

I have been living on my own for over 12 months and my STBXH still does the same things your spouse does, try to plan family trips and events, ask me to go out, and basically keeping in arms reach in case somehow I lose my mind and want to come back, all while still in contact will the initial OW. He met two more while we were separated but reconciling and he is still in contact with them as well. He sees nothing wrong with it and because of his NPD he never will.

Good luck!

I totally hate all those f#cking facebook quotes like 'if you can't handle me at my worst then you don't deserve me at my best'. But! This one is totally relevant here. Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option.― Maya Angelou

Is it something that comes and goes? It does describe how he's been recently but not how he's always been. How can anyone possibly live with some one like that long term??

I thought about seeing the MC without him a bit ago, but now not even sure if it's worth it.
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