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Friends with Opposite Sex

33K views 348 replies 38 participants last post by  Katiebird 
#1 ·
So after reading this forum for a short while, I must say that I am very surprised how many posters believe that a spouse should effectively have zero contact with members of the opposite sex (outside of professional) after marriage. Perhaps it is because I am reading a lot in the infidelity forums where trust is an issue, but is that really what people think? That getting married means that half of the Earth's population is now off limits as a friend? That it is impossible to have a friendship with a member of the opposite sex without it becoming more? That seems like pretty paranoid and immature thinking to me.

Comments welcome.
 
#2 ·
Been debated her at length.

Does not mean you don't talk to OSF.

But it means you don't text men/women, you don't go out to dinner and lunch with them.

OSF are friends of BOTH people.

For most this is natural and if you feel you can't just let that guy/gal go from your life and will keep even if your spouse is uncomfortable with it then you have to question yourself.

This short video is pretty good summary of how it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xMtGdEjqYI

And for you women who think you have a guy who is really just a friend. You should watch and listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLqK0DTevxA
 
#5 ·
Sorry for rehashing, but at this point, haven't MOST topics been discussed at length? I did not see anything recent to read, so instead of incurring wrath by reviving an old thread I decide just to start one.

First video: I totally agree that keeping details from your spouse is toxic, as is persisting in behaviors that your spouse finds uncomfortable. I am more thinking about totally in the open friendships, that the spouse is fully aware of. However, I think there is a strong potential for a little cause and effect shifting if you are asking an infidelity coach about OSFs. I agree that many, if not most, affairs start as OSFs, however I don't agree that most, or many, OSFs become affairs.
 
#20 ·
Sorry for rehashing, but at this point, haven't MOST topics been discussed at length? I did not see anything recent to read, so instead of incurring wrath by reviving an old thread I decide just to start one.

First video: I totally agree that keeping details from your spouse is toxic, as is persisting in behaviors that your spouse finds uncomfortable. I am more thinking about totally in the open friendships, that the spouse is fully aware of. However, I think there is a strong potential for a little cause and effect shifting if you are asking an infidelity coach about OSFs. I agree that many, if not most, affairs start as OSFs, however I don't agree that most, or many, OSFs become affairs.
Can you get a certification in that? What is the practicum like? >:)
 
#6 ·
I think the fundamental issue here is the defining of the word friend. IMO a friend is someone in whom you can confide, trust implicitly, share intimate thoughts and feelings with and be yourself, completely. In so doing there develops an emotional attachment and then "love". Why would one want to engage in such an arrangement where the possibility of physical attachment can occur with someone other than their spouse?

Now if we use the word acquaintance, which denotes no emotional involvement then that is a different matter.
 
#7 ·
It's a matter of priorities. If your marriage is of the utmost importance to you, then you'll be less inclined to risk it's health.

To some people, a friendship is worth the risk.
 
#10 ·
And many people have no problems with OSFs without risking the health of the marriage. You can be friends with someone for the pleasure of their company and intellect without having to have sex with them, outside of the Bonobo kingdom it can be done.

Yes, it is possible that some people start out as friends and end up having an affair but some people go out to the grocery store and end up dying in a car crash, however you still need to get groceries so you try and drive safely.

If any of my OSFs started saying anything negative about my wife they would cease to be Fs.
 
#8 · (Edited)
So after reading this forum for a short while, I must say that I am very surprised how many posters believe that a spouse should effectively have zero contact with members of the opposite sex (outside of professional) after marriage. Perhaps it is because I am reading a lot in the infidelity forums where trust is an issue, but is that really what people think? That getting married means that half of the Earth's population is now off limits as a friend? That it is impossible to have a friendship with a member of the opposite sex without it becoming more?
I absolutely feel that opposite sex friends have no place in a marriage, with all my heart, and have lived my marriage by that rule for the last 30 years. It was something my wife didn't really agree with in the beginning, but she has lived by as well. No opposite sex, close, personal friends for either of us. Whenever we are with opposite sex friends (really acquaintances), they are part of other couples and we see them as a couple. That's it, end of discussion. I'd rather cut out half the population as potential friends than risk either one of us getting too close to a member of the opposite sex and potentially hurting our marriage or each other. If that makes me paranoid and immature, then I'll wear that as a badge of honor.

That seems like pretty paranoid and immature thinking to me.

Comments welcome.
Actually, I think that suggesting that OSFs are not an issue in a marriage is immature and naive. Here is an blog that can explain why you are so hopelessly wrong much better than I can. Maybe it will open your mind a little.

https://danielmiessler.com/blog/on-spending-time-with-the-opposite-sex/
 
#14 ·
We both have plenty of OSFs - always have, always will. All are friends to us both, and we will usually all do things together - but, we can and do get together sometimes without the spouse. We find it easy to establish and maintain boundaries - because our marriage is so important, we aren't tempted to cross them. Even though we have an open relationship, that just means the boundaries need to be very clear and are very important, and open communication is paramount. We've never had any problems in over 16 years.
 
#15 ·
As w/ all things, the details matter.

Having and maintaining a friendship w/ an OSF isn't in and of itself a bad thing, so long as certain boundaries are in place.

Maintaining an OS friendship w/ an ex, though? I can imagine that most would view that w/ a certain level of scrutiny.

Changes in the way that OS friendships are viewed also has to be taken into account. Let's say, for example, that a given person had never really been known to have OS friendships outside of casual workplace relationships, "my friend's spouse/SO" relationships, couples/mutual friends relationships, etc, and then -- all of a sudden -- started talking about this new friend of the opposite sex. I'd imagine that would raise some eyebrows as well, even if only slightly.
 
#38 ·
My thoughts are similar to @GusPolinski. I wouldn't be concerned for example if my W has an OSF (not an ex) that was part of her life before we met. Naturally though there would need to be some sort of boundaries (the closer/more personal that friendship is the bigger a problem it could be, so that needs to be factored in).

However, since we have been together neither one of us has really had OSF (aside from mutual friends). That would be a big red flag IMO if suddenly my W befriended a guy (and likewise, I am sure it wouldn't sit well with my W if I did the same with a gal).

That being said, right now my W and I get very little time together, so if any friend (same sex or opposite) started eating up more of that time that would probably become an issue. I guess I can put this to the test, show up at home with my hot new female friend from the gym :D

This got me thinking, talking about the equivalent in a gay relationship, would the same sex friend be the one looked negatively at or the OSF b/c of the potential for switching teams???
 
#29 ·
Most people here are paranoid.

My best friend is a guy that I've known since I was 8. There is no way I'll ditch him.

I think that it's okay to have OSFs as long as there are boundaries. My friend has been there for me, and I love him as a brother.

Honestly, I'd see a man who demand that I end my friendship as insecure and a potential ex.

This is the interesting irony about a socalled friend for whom you would readily dump your husband.

So while you would expect your husband to:
1. stop dating and having sex with other women
2. put up with your family members especially during precious holiday time
3. integrate finances, maybe you even expected your husband both before and after marriage to pay for the dating / social expenses......

you would still expect him to let you call the shots with "just friends." While of course, your good friend is able to:
1. date and have sex with whomever and whenever he pleases
2. is able to turn down invitations to hang out with you or you and your family
3. maintains his own finances; may even insist on going dutch with you......

It would still be more important to keep him in your life than your husband........

Your friend has a sweet deal. Wonder how his future wife is going to organize you into their life when she comes on the scene.......
 
#17 ·
This is why you discuss it.
I'd dump you the minute I heard you say accept him or I'm gone.

Because you would be telling me I have no choice. So I would then say here's my choice: Buh-bye.

So after reading this forum for a short while, I must say that I am very surprised how many posters believe that a spouse should effectively have zero contact with members of the opposite sex (outside of professional) after marriage. Perhaps it is because I am reading a lot in the infidelity forums where trust is an issue, but is that really what people think? That getting married means that half of the Earth's population is now off limits as a friend? That it is impossible to have a friendship with a member of the opposite sex without it becoming more? That seems like pretty paranoid and immature thinking to me.



Comments welcome.


Most people here are paranoid.

My best friend is a guy that I've known since I was 8. There is no way I'll ditch him.

I think that it's okay to have OSFs as long as there are boundaries. My friend has been there for me, and I love him as a brother.

Honestly, I'd see a man who demand that I end my friendship as insecure and a potential ex.
 
#19 ·
Your best friend is supposed to be your spouse.

I can't imagine when I was married to my wife of 20 years her telling me her best friend was another guy.

There are a lot of men who won't take your deal. If I'm not my ladies number 1 then she's gone.

honey, let me ask my best friend Mikey what he thinks about where we are going for our anniversary. Ok dear tell me if he approves. /sarcasm

Honey I'm going to dinner tonight with my best friend Mikey don't wait up. Ok dear enjoy your date. /sarcasm

Dad, I was walking by Applebee's and I saw mom and some guy having dinner. It's ok daughter, it's just some guy friend taking mom on dinner dates. /sarcasm

Perception matters too...

I'm not insecure. I have enough self respect to not intertwine my life with someone who would put me as second option.


This is why you discuss it.
I'd dump you the minute I heard you say accept him or I'm gone.

Because you would be telling me I have no choice. So I would then say here's my choice: Buh-bye.


Good riddance?
 
#24 ·
I think opposite friends arent an issue as long as you do not have direct lines of communication that cannot be viewed publicly or at least by your spouse.

So if you have opposite face book friends that you want to make plans with, leave your Facebook open for your spouse to see. Share passwords etc.

At no time do I think it is appropriate to be planning or spending alone time with an OSF, meeting for drinks, dinner, movies, and the like.

Hang out in groups, chat openly, and you can enjoy your friendship as much as you want without giving place for confusion or betrayals.

Oh and never confide in your OSF about your relationships, unless you never want your SO to confide in you again.

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk
 
#25 ·
These women who have male friends as their "bestie" will have "guy friend" who will have no qualms about inserting his opinion, thoughts, and commentary on any guy that comes along. Essentially he has insight to any and everything in your relationship.

And when a woman says she's already a package deal with her male friend, count me out.

These male friends essentially become frenemies from day one. I went through this with my exF. And way too many times at some point a woman will have done at least kissing with guy friend from the sexual tension that exists. You really can't every trust a woman's story about the history of her and guy friend.

You can be sure guy friend will have access and be able to comment on the relationship. Whereas if you tell your lady, I'm not too keen on guy friend then you are insecure and mean to my friend. Lose-lose.

It's a cuckold.

Guys, these kind of women about are NOT relationship material. They should come with a warning label attached to their forehead.
 
#30 ·
I had a workplace osf at one time.

I thought he did not view me sexually because I'm really only average looking, and at that time, kind of a toothpick physically. Plus, I had a bf. (My current H),

Well, it turned out I was wrong . And my reputation at work took a bit of a hit. I never so much as held the guys hand, but everyone was.assuming otherwise. Apparently, the gossip was that I was going to dump my bf, and perhaps marry osf.

Never again in a million years. Even if you don't think you are pretty enough, or smart enough to have that sort of effect on a random guy friend.

Your work buddy probably instigate and encouraged those rumors.
 
#28 ·
Sorry OP
You are correct on one thing and that is it is unrealistic unless you are locked in the house to avoid interactions with men who are not your husband or partner. But this is crap thatr these relationships do not have to CHANGE significantly when you are married.
The facts is if you read ANYTHING about infidelity is that most affairs do not occur between strangers, but they occur between "friends" or acquaintances that head down a slippery slope. How about reading the book "Not Just Friends".

Your statement or others that they are like brothers may be true but these forums are crammed full of affairs with "friends" of the opposite sex.

It never ceases to amaze me how women on here think their husbands or boyfriends should be just fine with then hanging out alone with other men, going to their houses and even sleeping over alone, or going away for trips with another man, and then tell their spouse he is just a "FRIEND"

Now, probably 90% of folks who enter into an affair would make the statement that it was NEVER supposed to happen, and if you read threads by WW they very often start with thie following statement

"I never thought I would cheat. But the OM just kept showier ing me with compliments and I could not resist the ego kibbles"

Of course, you think you are unique or different. But you are not.

There is NOTHING wrong with having ACQUAINTANCES of the opposite sex. But your husband is no Neanderthal for not accepting you running around alone with another man whenever the urge strikes you. And your past with the OM is meaningless.

If you want to not change anything when you are married, you need to talk to your husband about non monogamy. You are not going to find the majority of men on this planet happy with their spouse or partner with a make best friend.
 
#31 ·
It's very simple, IMO. If my spouse is trustworthy, then it doesn't matter who they have as a friend, or even when or where they see that friend. A trustworthy spouse will maintain boundaries, and even end a friendship where the friend can't respect boundaries. If they are not trustworthy, it still doesn't matter, because they will not remain my spouse - why would I want to keep them, or try to control someone I can't trust? I will find out sooner or later (probably sooner), if boundaries aren't being observed.
 
#33 ·
I agree with you and will take it a step further....... a trustworthy person who is AND wants to appear to be trustworthy will avoid situations that are or even just look inappropriate in the first place.

So, yea, having good standards and boundaries means that you can get rid of a non trustworthy person before any real problems arise.
 
#32 ·
I'm trying to even figure out why I would even want a female best friend.

Maybe my sister, I don't mind sticking my nose in her drama and stirring the pot, so-to-speak, but it's more of a love hate relationship.

I don't have the patience, motivation, or energy to warrant a OSF.

If we were to be more than just friends, I might find some time to "hang out, and chill."

Sent from my Z936L using Tapatalk
 
#35 ·
I am one of the few that don't seem to have a problem with it, I have several female friends. Yes my GF has met all of them, no she isn't jealous of any of them, I give her no reason to be. I will hang with them alone or we go out as couples. I wouldn't be with someone who ever tried to define my relationships with other people. It's not my job to coddle insecurity.

That said I do agree we are products of our past. My X cheated on me with a co-worker she only knew for a month. Had it been a long time friend I may feel different on the matter.
 
#39 ·
Several people have alluded to not wanting their partner to be alone with OSF as being insecure.

It's just the opposite. I know what boundary I can accept and having a wife or girlfriend who wants to hang out with some other guy tells me she is a cake eater. Plenty of women out their who have the exact same values to not being alone 1:1 with the opposite sex when in a committed relationship.

It's actually not common amongst long term married couples.

What is funny is how often the "bestie" is usually single too. I bet many of those female friends will end up with H's who say no way to having you in the picture.

Live by the sword die by the sword.
 
#36 ·
I would never try to tell a partner that they were not allowed to have an opposite sex friend. That said, I also would not have a relationship with a partner who insisted on maintaining close, personal, intimate friend relationships with members of the opposite sex. That's not about controlling them, that's about what I find I'm personally willing to tolerate in a relationship. I'd be incompatible with that person's values and outlook on life. No harm, no foul, we're just not a good match.

To me, the tolerance for opposite sex friendships in a relationship is a point of compatibility. Those who want to maintain opposite sex friendships are just basically incompatible with those who do not accept opposite sex friendships while in a committed relationship, and vice versa.
 
#79 ·
I would never try to tell a partner that they were not allowed to have an opposite sex friend. That said, I also would not have a relationship with a partner who insisted on maintaining close, personal, intimate friend relationships with members of the opposite sex. That's not about controlling them, that's about what I find I'm personally willing to tolerate in a relationship. I'd be incompatible with that person's values and outlook on life. No harm, no foul, we're just not a good match.

To me, the tolerance for opposite sex friendships in a relationship is a point of compatibility. Those who want to maintain opposite sex friendships are just basically incompatible with those who do not accept opposite sex friendships while in a committed relationship, and vice versa.
:iagree:

For me the bolded is the boundary of a friend situation.
 
#42 ·
I don't think it's fair to call people paranoid. Maybe that's the technical correct word, but it still sounds hurtful/rude. Many people have been burned by the "OSF" line. Don't we all learn from our past experiences? So, if someone has experienced the OSF affair, it's totally normal for them to reject their next partner for having OSFs and for them to be suspicious of OSF of their next partner. It has NOTHING to do with how trustworthy that partner is. It has to do with you, personally, not wanting to be hurt again....which is completely understandable. People who have been hurt take precautions to not get hurt again. Does it always work? No, we can't prevent it completely, but there are ways to minimize the risk.

Not everyone takes those precautions even after being burned. It's all personal preference. I've been hurt my whole life. There is not a single person on this planet that I trust. At all. I will never trust anyone. That's just been my life experience. Everyone is out to get something and they will use you to get it. It's unfortunate, but that's the life I had.

So, for example, since I've been burned (She's just a friend, she doesn't mean anything, she's ugly so I don't think of her that way...blah, blah, blah), I absolutely would not accept someone with OSFs. That's completely okay as there are PLENTY of people who feel the exact same way. Likewise, there are PLENTY of people who don't feel that way and they can gravitate to each other as well.

That's the whole purpose of weeding potential mates, isn't it?
 
#57 ·
I really like what you wrote.

I've been where you are on trust at one stage. I won't thread jack (much). Just wanted to say that if you can figure out what motivates someone, you can form a view on where to trust them and where to be careful.

And I see no problem with drawing the boundaries where you think they should be. If someone cares for you they will respect your boundaries, even when those boundaries differ from theirs.
 
#43 ·
I have a simple rule I follow... if my wife could read about my social conversations and behaviors on the front page of the newspaper and have no concerns, I am thinking clearly.

Gender matters not, but with workplace opposite sex interactions, that rule is applied twice as a boundary check with great success.

There is an Irish saying, "When mistrust comes in, love goes out", I never want my wife to be in a position to have reason to mistrust me.

Early in my workplace days (23 years here), we hung with a group of 6 couples and had "great" friendships doing things.

My wife questioned several boundaries of those couples and pretty much said these people will cause us grief if we continued. I was puzzled as I could not see this but as time went on the couples were removed from our social side.

Today, we are the only couple still married.

If you have friends of the opposite sex, know your boundaries and listen to understand, not reply when there are concerns.
 
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#46 ·
I am bilingual. I speak English and Mandarin.

But if you think talking to your friend in another language in front of your spouse/partner is respecting him, I can't think of a more idiotic thing to do.

You won't win this debate with me. I've got the experience to see the risks and problems created FAR, FAR, FAR, exceed the potential benefits.

He may be you friend but they way you talk about him why not marry him? You are willing to put him about your bf or husband. I feel sorry for sucker who takes that deal.

I'm just thankful the majority of people in relationships see hanging out alone or messaging all the time with their opposite sex "bestie" as disrespectful.

Have you every asked your guy friend if he'd date you or have sex with you?

My friend is respectful. The funny thing is that I don't speak English with him, so a guy will have to trust what I translate since most Americans only speak English.

Lol at the last sentence!
 
#45 ·
It's quite simple.

Either opposite sex friends are friends of the marriage, or they aren't.

Which means that you don't date them (dinner, drinks, trips, etc alone), you don't share intimate details about the marriage with them, you're 100% transparent with your spouse about it, and you don't flirt with them. And if they don't support the marriage, they're gone.

The end.
 
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