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post #331 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 12:28 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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Originally Posted by Wazza View Post
This is the key point. I agre it's a danger. Not having OSF is one way to handle it. Not the only way IMO, but you may disagree.

I think you see one on one with OSF as basically dating. Is that right? I don't (obviously) though I think you need to be careful.
I understand that there is a different mind-set between dating and one on one with OSFs; I call it date-like. After giving it some thought, I guess i compare it more to the "first few dates" of a growing relationship where the two are getting to know each other enjoying other's company, and going to some activities together, which often leads to a deeper bond.

Again, it's probably about individual culture and what's available in a town. If for example, my lady friend from work that I went to high school with asked me to hang out one evening. Lets say I went along. We'd probably go eat, talk, laugh, maybe see a movie, or go to a local event, which is basically the same thing I'd do on a first date. That's why it seems date-like to me. If a person's idea of a real date is to be a lot more intimate, then I understand the difference.

I guess it's like ranching and farming; some people would say they are totally different, and some would say they are very similar.


There is nothing more sad or glorious than generations changing hands- John Mellencamp
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post #332 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 02:48 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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I understand that there is a different mind-set between dating and one on one with OSFs; I call it date-like. A
I had to use that expression with my (future) husband. Any discussion I tried to have about his just friend ex got derailed with "she's just a friend." Fortunately, he was not a very neat person and he left receipts and credit card statements around. And yes, I decided to look at his e-mails and his FB account.

So I was able to go toe to toe with many things he did with and for her which sadly sometimes showed how he was shortchanging.

How can you say that you care more about someone when you don't even care whether they safely got on the bus (which you don't pay for) at the end of a date but will make damned sure that you get to a cash machine to pay for your friend's taxi fare when she arrives for one of your (date-like) outings.

No, I didn't make a lot of money at that time going from to contract. She told him, he told me, that she made GBP40,000 a year. (this is the UK) She also put him up to asking me how much I made I guess so that she find some spin on whatever that I made to make herself look more attractive. She had already compared herself favorably to me on that basis of age (21 years younger), state of health (well, at least it's not cancer).

I think because there has been a lot written on whether women who are "properly" dating a guy should go 50/50 on a date or at least help out more often than not, it makes men more keen to have that discussion with a woman they are dating.

But when it comes to the female friend, there must still be an element of wanting to impress the woman which sometimes comes out as "well, I had to do it, it would have been rude otherwise." "I suggested hanging out, not her......" ... and so on.......
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post #333 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 03:31 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

Yikes, with everyone stating their age I didn't realize this was a thread for a retirement home ...





















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post #334 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 03:41 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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I had to use that expression with my (future) husband. Any discussion I tried to have about his just friend ex got derailed with "she's just a friend." Fortunately, he was not a very neat person and he left receipts and credit card statements around. And yes, I decided to look at his e-mails and his FB account.

So I was able to go toe to toe with many things he did with and for her which sadly sometimes showed how he was shortchanging.

How can you say that you care more about someone when you don't even care whether they safely got on the bus (which you don't pay for) at the end of a date but will make damned sure that you get to a cash machine to pay for your friend's taxi fare when she arrives for one of your (date-like) outings.

No, I didn't make a lot of money at that time going from to contract. She told him, he told me, that she made GBP40,000 a year. (this is the UK) She also put him up to asking me how much I made I guess so that she find some spin on whatever that I made to make herself look more attractive. She had already compared herself favorably to me on that basis of age (21 years younger), state of health (well, at least it's not cancer).
I can see where it would cause problems, and it's just difficult for me to believe that OSFs are healthy for a marriage. I can see where it could cause resentment at the very least.

Another reason I'm not for it is simple personality. Some people are thrill seekers and risk takers, but that's not my personality. I like to play it safe. I know that sounds as boring as watching paint dry, but everyone is different. Some will argue that the percent of OSFs that lead to cheating isn't very high. They may be right, but if it does happen, the cost is high.

If I invest $100 in something and it fails, that's not devastating to me, but the cost of a bungee jump gone wrong could be devastating. Some people will do that for the thrill, and I'm sure the percentage of people that get hurt compared to the number that do it is low. But if it goes wrong, the price is high, and to me, it wouldn't be worth the thrill of the jump.

If i lived, I'd be lying in the hospital thinking, "Ok, I'm not lying here because I was fighting for my country or trying to rescue someone from a fire, I'm lying here because i tied a chord to my body and jumped off a bridge. How ridiculous! What was i thinking?"

There is nothing more sad or glorious than generations changing hands- John Mellencamp
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post #335 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 03:43 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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Yikes, with everyone stating their age I didn't realize this was a thread for a retirement home ...



























I just celebrated my 110th birthday.

There is nothing more sad or glorious than generations changing hands- John Mellencamp
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post #336 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 03:52 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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Yikes, with everyone stating their age I didn't realize this was a thread for a retirement home ...





















Wait... didn't you say you were my dad's age? 😛

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post #337 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 05:06 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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Originally Posted by southbound View Post

Another reason I'm not for it is simple personality. Some people are thrill seekers and risk takers, but that's not my personality. I like to play it safe. I know that sounds as boring as watching paint dry, but everyone is different. Some will argue that the percent of OSFs that lead to cheating isn't very high. They may be right, but if it does happen, the cost is high.
Let's also remember that the problem with OSFs is not just cheating -- particularly when one uses the traditional meaning of cheating.

As others have mentioned, a lot of energy goes out of the marriage and into the relationship of an OSF.

Men who feel the need to look like a provider at all times will think nothing of spending the household budget on "just a friend" and then will think nothing of saying "I don't even like her all that much..... now, will you forgive me for not being able to make the full mortgage payment this month........"
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post #338 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 05:17 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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If I invest $100 in something and it fails, that's not devastating to me, but the cost of a bungee jump gone wrong could be devastating. Some people will do that for the thrill, and I'm sure the percentage of people that get hurt compared to the number that do it is low. But if it goes wrong, the price is high, and to me, it wouldn't be worth the thrill of the jump.
yeah, you could try it on with one woman for example, only to be completely dissed out of that social circle. OTOH, there may be some women / couples who will give you a second chance.

This is why feel that when some people are aggressive with me -- or anyone else for that matter, it means they do't give a sh!t about a future relationship with that person.

my husband admitted to me that his just a friend ex stood him up for a concert they planned to go to. He bought the tickets on this occasion she agreed to pay for hers. didn't show up; didn't pay for the ticket. But 2 months later, they met up for another concert in which she had paid for both of tickets. He paid her for his even though she still hadn't paid him back for the one she stood him up on.

Around this same time, while I was using his coffee grinder, it broke on me. A not so special appliance that he had had for 3 years already, did I break it or was it planned obsolescence? He was adamant that I replace it. To replace that coffee grinder was about the same price as a concert ticket. I was furious.
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post #339 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 05:41 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

Next, I totally agree that the things you are citing can be problems.

My "answer" is openness with my wife. Not keeping secrets. She has access to my phone, Facebook, emails, etc. I put "answer" in quotes because if I wanted to cheat, I could. So could she. But I think I would know, or at least know enough to be suspicious.

Ummm...did you actually conclude that your husbands "friend" was more than a friend? I can't remember if you stated it, but faced with some of what you list, I would have wondered?
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post #340 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 06:04 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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Originally Posted by Wazza View Post
Next, I totally agree that the things you are citing can be problems.

My "answer" is openness with my wife. Not keeping secrets. She has access to my phone, Facebook, emails, etc. I put "answer" in quotes because if I wanted to cheat, I could. So could she. But I think I would know, or at least know enough to be suspicious.

Ummm...did you actually conclude that your husbands "friend" was more than a friend? I can't remember if you stated it, but faced with some of what you list, I would have wondered?

HE was trying to date / court her before he met me. With so much digital info, I can see that he and she became FB friends 4 months before he met me. He admitted that they had had sex a couple of times. but it wasn't great,he told me, of course.

But I did find a few message between them in which he was begging. The coup de grace came when she invited him -- the day of - to he b-day party and then told him to f^ck off when he arrived. I can see that discussion in their texting. 2 weeks later he was at a meetup activity where I was. He asked me out. He FB messaged her the night before our first date.

She told him at several points either "she was not looking for anything serious right now" OR that she was actively looking elsewhere.

From my husband's point of view, it's possible that he was serious about her and used the friendship line to stay in touch with her. So I'm glad that before the end of our first year dating, I pointed out to him that if he needed her friendship, I would start dating other men again.

I think from her point of view, she didn't like him enough to be serious about him. Because she was 29 at time, she felt, I think, that she still had a few more years before her bio clock dried up....... now that it's reported that women can have healthy babies even in their 40s.

Her attitude towards me went back and forth. One minute telling him that a relationship with me was good for him (possibly so that he would leave her alone for a change) to playing divide and conqure. ie, Having a table at paub for Superbowl, telling him that he's welcome to come but I'm not.

Yes, she did give him advice on our relationship. And my (future) husband shared some of that advice with me. I felt as felt as is our relationship was being moderated by a third party.

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post #341 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 10:41 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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Originally Posted by southbound View Post
I understand that there is a different mind-set between dating and one on one with OSFs; I call it date-like. After giving it some thought, I guess i compare it more to the "first few dates" of a growing relationship where the two are getting to know each other enjoying other's company, and going to some activities together, which often leads to a deeper bond.

Again, it's probably about individual culture and what's available in a town. If for example, my lady friend from work that I went to high school with asked me to hang out one evening. Lets say I went along. We'd probably go eat, talk, laugh, maybe see a movie, or go to a local event, which is basically the same thing I'd do on a first date. That's why it seems date-like to me. If a person's idea of a real date is to be a lot more intimate, then I understand the difference.

I guess it's like ranching and farming; some people would say they are totally different, and some would say they are very similar.
I've no doubt culture plays a role, yet I've experienced the same attitude as my own with different women of different cultural and ethnic backgrounds. In my social circles, no one seems to care what others do within their own consenting adult relationships.

I'm (almost 45) a British Australian dual national (atheist), who was raised in Australia by a (North Western) English parent (non-religious, mostly Scottish background) and an Anglo-Australian parent (lazy Protestant, mostly Scottish and English background). Most relatives in now in Australia, most of the rest in England, Scotland and the United States.

My wife (almost 46) is an Australian woman (atheist) who was raised in Australia and Italy by Italian immigrants (entirely East Coast Sicilian, very Catholic with almost all relatives in Italy).

My before mentioned friend (51) is an English woman (atheist) raised in Southern England by non-religious Anglo-English parents. All relatives in England.

My ex-wife (43) is an English woman (badly practicing Catholic), raised in London by very Catholic Mauritian parents (black African and French background) most relatives in England and Mauritius. My ex-wife cheated on me with a man who wasn't an OSF, thus I immediately ended our marital relationship. She didn't happen to have OSF's, I did which was fine with her. Again despite the fact I had OSF's, I never cheated on her.

My other platonic OSF's and former sexual partners have mostly been (atheist) tertiary educated professionals. That are Australian, Russian, Polish, Cambodian, Spanish, French, Irish, Portuguese, Israeli, Japanese, Scottish, English and German women.

I can't recall any of them having any issues with having OSF's, being OSF's and catching up with OSF's alone or otherwise, to the point that it has never been talked about.

I also concur different experiences can lead to different things, I'm turning 45 soon and have been with the same woman for 20 years now. So my adult dating experience with others was a long time ago.

Yet through all of that dating (straining my memory here) I most often had sex on the first or second date, less frequently the third and once on the fourth. The only dating I have done that didn't lead to sex was on one occasion that went no further than the first date.

So for me catching up with other sex friends is not like dating, since there's no sexual tension, there's no having that feeling that sex is mutually wanted and can be easily had even if it will wait till the second date.

Even now when I frequently date my wife, we always flirt and still feel that sexual buzz. So for me catching up with my friends never feels like dating.

In all of my sexual relationships so far, I've never encountered the dramas that @NextTimeAround has mentioned.
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post #342 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-11-2016, 11:08 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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Yet through all of that dating (straining my memory here) I most often had sex on the first or second date, less frequently the third and once on the fourth. The only dating I have done that didn't lead to sex was on one occasion that went no further than the first date.

So for me catching up with other sex friends is not like dating, since there's no sexual tension, there's no having that feeling that sex is mutually wanted and can be easily had even if it will wait till the second date.
That explains a lot; our ideas of dating are different. It dawned on me in my last post that people's views of what constitutes a date probably varies widely.

There is nothing more sad or glorious than generations changing hands- John Mellencamp
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post #343 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-12-2016, 02:06 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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I had to use that expression with my (future) husband. Any discussion I tried to have about his just friend ex got derailed with "she's just a friend." Fortunately, he was not a very neat person and he left receipts and credit card statements around. And yes, I decided to look at his e-mails and his FB account.

So I was able to go toe to toe with many things he did with and for her which sadly sometimes showed how he was shortchanging.

How can you say that you care more about someone when you don't even care whether they safely got on the bus (which you don't pay for) at the end of a date but will make damned sure that you get to a cash machine to pay for your friend's taxi fare when she arrives for one of your (date-like) outings.

No, I didn't make a lot of money at that time going from to contract. She told him, he told me, that she made GBP40,000 a year. (this is the UK) She also put him up to asking me how much I made I guess so that she find some spin on whatever that I made to make herself look more attractive. She had already compared herself favorably to me on that basis of age (21 years younger), state of health (well, at least it's not cancer).

I think because there has been a lot written on whether women who are "properly" dating a guy should go 50/50 on a date or at least help out more often than not, it makes men more keen to have that discussion with a woman they are dating.

But when it comes to the female friend, there must still be an element of wanting to impress the woman which sometimes comes out as "well, I had to do it, it would have been rude otherwise." "I suggested hanging out, not her......" ... and so on.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by NextTimeAround View Post
my husband admitted to me that his just a friend ex stood him up for a concert they planned to go to. He bought the tickets on this occasion she agreed to pay for hers. didn't show up; didn't pay for the ticket. But 2 months later, they met up for another concert in which she had paid for both of tickets. He paid her for his even though she still hadn't paid him back for the one she stood him up on.

Around this same time, while I was using his coffee grinder, it broke on me. A not so special appliance that he had had for 3 years already, did I break it or was it planned obsolescence? He was adamant that I replace it. To replace that coffee grinder was about the same price as a concert ticket. I was furious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NextTimeAround View Post
HE was trying to date / court her before he met me. With so much digital info, I can see that he and she became FB friends 4 months before he met me. He admitted that they had had sex a couple of times. but it wasn't great,he told me, of course.

But I did find a few message between them in which he was begging. The coup de grace came when she invited him -- the day of - to he b-day party and then told him to f^ck off when he arrived. I can see that discussion in their texting. 2 weeks later he was at a meetup activity where I was. He asked me out. He FB messaged her the night before our first date.

She told him at several points either "she was not looking for anything serious right now" OR that she was actively looking elsewhere.

From my husband's point of view, it's possible that he was serious about her and used the friendship line to stay in touch with her. So I'm glad that before the end of our first year dating, I pointed out to him that if he needed her friendship, I would start dating other men again.

I think from her point of view, she didn't like him enough to be serious about him. Because she was 29 at time, she felt, I think, that she still had a few more years before her bio clock dried up....... now that it's reported that women can have healthy babies even in their 40s.

Her attitude towards me went back and forth. One minute telling him that a relationship with me was good for him (possibly so that he would leave her alone for a change) to playing divide and conqure. ie, Having a table at paub for Superbowl, telling him that he's welcome to come but I'm not.

Yes, she did give him advice on our relationship. And my (future) husband shared some of that advice with me. I felt as felt as is our relationship was being moderated by a third party.
Since this is your (future) husband why are you still thinking of marrying him? What you've described here isn't an OSF it's a person that he seems hung up on and you are waiting around hoping he'll change.
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post #344 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-12-2016, 02:10 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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I have to take people's word for it, but it's difficult for me to understand finding a woman interesting enough that a guy wants to be with her, but there is zero sexual attraction, and I doubt that a lot of people's OSFs are ugly.
That is really quite sad.
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post #345 of 349 (permalink) Old 06-12-2016, 03:48 PM
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Re: Friends with Opposite Sex

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Originally Posted by WonkyNinja View Post
Since this is your (future) husband why are you still thinking of marrying him? What you've described here isn't an OSF it's a person that he seems hung up on and you are waiting around hoping he'll change.

We've been married for 2 years now. This problem occurred during the first year that we were dating.
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