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post #616 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 10:16 AM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

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The authors offer a few explanations. First, they write, men tend to underestimate how often their partner wants sex as a way to avoid rejection. For example, on days when a man’s motivation to avoid sexual rejection was high, he tended to underperceive his partner’s sexual desire.
So it is the woman rejecting the man for sex that causes men to stop asking.

Please explain how this means that men are as likely as women to cause sexless marriages. It sounds like it is the woman's rejection that is causing sexless marriages.

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Second, the authors suggest that the men might underestimate their partner’s desire as a way to avoid becoming complacent. “We don’t know exactly what men do when they underperceive, but it’s possible that this keeps them from becoming lazy about maintaining their partner’s interest,” Amy Muise, the lead author on the study, told me over email. Put differently—if men think their women aren’t interested, they’ll try harder to pique their interest.
Yes, because they are desperate to get their wives to have sex with them... until they give up. How does this mean that the man is the one making the marriage sexless?

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Curiously, when men underpercieved their partner’s sexual desire, their partner saw them as more committed and more satisfied in the relationship—so perhaps there’s something to this hypothesis.
Yes, assuming that "this hypothesis" is that the women have lower interest in sex than their husbands and it reduces their guilt to think that their husbands are okay with this.

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Notably, men in the studies did report higher levels of sexual desire overall than woman, which the authors think could be another reason why men underestimate women’s desire (they assume it’s less than their own, but have trouble gauging it beyond that). Ultimately, women’s sexual desire was still higher than men imagined it to be, so it’s safe to say guys have gone too far with their “she doesn’t want sex” assumptions. As have we all.
Or they find rejection so painful that they would rather give up than suffer it any more. Which I'm sure is still the man's responsibility, not the responsibility of the one doing the rejection in the first place.

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Consider this—when this study started making news this week, the most common headlines were some variation of “Women are more interested in sex than you think” or “Hey guys, women want sex more often than you think.” These headlines assume that we, the readers, believe women are not interested in sex to begin with, and so this news is somehow shocking.

How does this myth continue to persist? Surveys have shown that women often want more sex than they’re having. Books have been written about the strength of the female sex drive. And studies have shown that many women are “highly sexual” and more fluid when it comes to sexuality than men.

Study: Women want sex more than their partners think | Fusion
Many women have plenty of sexual desire.

Unfortunately, many times it isn't for their husbands.

This is all completely in alignment with the much-maligned red pill.


Always remember the LD motto: "Sex isn't important!!!"
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post #617 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 10:30 AM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

From the Kinsey report link:

"The survey completed by Laumann and his colleagues was particularly revealing about the subject of sexual interest in the general population (as distinct from specialty clinics). Interviewers asked respondents: “During the last 12 months has there ever been a period of several months or more when you lacked interest in having sex?” Overall, 33% of women and 16% of men answered ‘yes.’ "

So lack of interest in sex is twice as high in women as in men. Who could have guessed that?

Always remember the LD motto: "Sex isn't important!!!"
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post #618 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 10:53 AM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

They should have asked those same men and women "How much do you contribute to household chores and child-rearing on a daily basis?"
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post #619 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 11:02 AM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

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They should have asked those same men and women "How much do you contribute to household chores and child-rearing on a daily basis?"


That's what moving the goalposts really looks like.
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post #620 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 01:47 PM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

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The authors offer a few explanations. First, they write, men tend to underestimate how often their partner wants sex as a way to avoid rejection. For example, on days when a man’s motivation to avoid sexual rejection was high, he tended to underperceive his partner’s sexual desire.
So it is the woman rejecting the man for sex that causes men to stop asking.

Please explain how this means that men are as likely as women to cause sexless marriages. It sounds like it is the woman's rejection that is causing sexless marriages.
I did not post that link to address the fact that men are as likely as women to cause a sexless marriage. I posted it because I believe that marriages are complex relationships and that there are many things that can lead to a sexless marriage or one in which one partner is not always getting as much sex as they want. It’s not always that all women are lying, manipulative, horrible, hateful, cold creatures as some men here seem to believe.

Note that in the entire article, it does not say anywhere that the wives are actually rejecting the husbands, or rejecting them to any excessive manner. Surely you don’t think that a woman has to have sex with her husband every single time he asks for sex. Do you? Is there ever a time when a woman can choose to not have sex for a good reason, like she has a bad case of the flu? Maybe the wife never or almost never turns her husband down, but he’s a guy who has an excessive fear of being turned down .

I found the article interesting because some guys might want to look at their own motivation and might discover that their own fear of rejection is what is keeping them from having sex more than anything else.
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Second, the authors suggest that the men might underestimate their partner’s desire as a way to avoid becoming complacent. “We don’t know exactly what men do when they underperceive, but it’s possible that this keeps them from becoming lazy about maintaining their partner’s interest,” Amy Muise, the lead author on the study, told me over email. Put differently—if men think their women aren’t interested, they’ll try harder to pique their interest.
Yes, because they are desperate to get their wives to have sex with them... until they give up. How does this mean that the man is the one making the marriage sexless?
Again, not where did I say that this article about men making a marriage sexless. But it might explain a problem in some marriages in which the husband and wife are not communicating well about their sexual desires.

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Quote:
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Curiously, when men underpercieved their partner’s sexual desire, their partner saw them as more committed and more satisfied in the relationship—so perhaps there’s something to this hypothesis.
Yes, assuming that "this hypothesis" is that the women have lower interest in sex than their husbands and it reduces their guilt to think that their husbands are okay with this.
I did not write the article or do the study. Instead I think it is saying that since the guy is not asking for sex, his wife perceives him as being satisfied with their sex life. Again, I think it’s talking about some couples who have a huge communication gap when it comes to their sex life.

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Notably, men in the studies did report higher levels of sexual desire overall than woman, which the authors think could be another reason why men underestimate women’s desire (they assume it’s less than their own, but have trouble gauging it beyond that). Ultimately, women’s sexual desire was still higher than men imagined it to be, so it’s safe to say guys have gone too far with their “she doesn’t want sex” assumptions. As have we all.
Or they find rejection so painful that they would rather give up than suffer it any more. Which I'm sure is still the man's responsibility, not the responsibility of the one doing the rejection in the first place.
Oh good lord. You see women as to blame for everything. It’s just ridiculous. Again, it’s about couples not communicating. There is no indication that the women in this study are turning the guys down in any unreasonable amount. What the study is saying is that the men think that the women have lower sex drives than they actually have. So the men function accordingly and even have a fear that because they think that women have low sex drives they will be turned down. Again… it’s more about communication. The couples are not talking to each other about their desire for sex. That’s what needs to be fixed.. the communication.

This is one of the reasons that all this talk about how women are all LD is so harmful. Most women are not LD. Most women are pretty HD. Yet all we keep being told is that we are LD. So number of men are told that all women are LD so they treat their wives as LD.

It’s the fault of both men and women in relationships where this is going on that they are not communicating about it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
Consider this—when this study started making news this week, the most common headlines were some variation of “Women are more interested in sex than you think” or “Hey guys, women want sex more often than you think.” These headlines assume that we, the readers, believe women are not interested in sex to begin with, and so this news is somehow shocking.

How does this myth continue to persist? Surveys have shown that women often want more sex than they’re having. Books have been written about the strength of the female sex drive. And studies have shown that many women are “highly sexual” and more fluid when it comes to sexuality than men.

Study: Women want sex more than their partners think | Fusion
Many women have plenty of sexual desire.

Unfortunately, many times it isn't for their husbands.

This is all completely in alignment with the much-maligned red pill.
And many men have plenty of sexual desire, just not for their wives. IT’s a fact. But that's not what this article is about.

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post #621 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 01:51 PM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

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From the Kinsey report link:

"The survey completed by Laumann and his colleagues was particularly revealing about the subject of sexual interest in the general population (as distinct from specialty clinics). Interviewers asked respondents: “During the last 12 months has there ever been a period of several months or more when you lacked interest in having sex?” Overall, 33% of women and 16% of men answered ‘yes.’ "

So lack of interest in sex is twice as high in women as in men. Who could have guessed that?
And did they ask why they lacked interest in sex for that time period? That might be very interesting to know.

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post #622 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 02:01 PM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

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And did they ask why they lacked interest in sex for that time period? That might be very interesting to know.
It would indeed be interesting to know why. Of course, the reasons given and the REAL reasons may not be the same. This is always a possible problem when you ask people versus observing them for periods of time, but it's seldom practical to carry out such long term observation as it is invasive.

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post #623 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 02:02 PM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

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Now, is this in support of your regular claims that 50% of sexless marriages are caused by men? Really?
No, it’s an interesting article that I found that might help some people (men and women) realize that they need to communicate more about their sexual desires with their spouse.

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post #624 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 02:08 PM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

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It would indeed be interesting to know why. Of course, the reasons given and the REAL reasons may not be the same. This is always a possible problem when you ask people versus observing them for periods of time, but it's seldom practical to carry out such long term observation as it is invasive.
True, but there are a lot of studies that do ask for that kind of info. Of course not everyone will tell truth. But most will. As it stands right now, the data is incomplete because it does not tell the reason why they the people did not want sex. They why is as important as not wanting it.


In the study that was done on about 4,500 men who did not want sex, the vast majority of men said that they did not want sex with their wives. Not that they did not want sex. And they listed many reasons, basically blaming their wives for them not wanting sex. It think it’s pretty typical in any marriage to blame the spouse.

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post #625 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 02:10 PM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

Intimacy Anorexia: Healing the Hidden Addiction in Your Marriage
by Ph.D. Douglas Weiss


He's Just Not Up for It Anymore: Why Men Stop Having Sex, and What You Can Do About It


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post #626 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 02:21 PM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

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In the study that was done on about 4,500 men who did not want sex, the vast majority of men said that they did not want sex with their wives. Not that they did not want sex. And they listed many reasons, basically blaming their wives for them not wanting sex. It think it’s pretty typical in any marriage to blame the spouse.
Sometimes, the blame is well-placed. My ex usually rejected me, so eventually it was easier to stop initiating and reject her the rare times she was interested. I still wanted sex, just no longer wanted it with her - which is part of why I initiated a divorce.

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post #627 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 02:30 PM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

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Sometimes, the blame is well-placed. My ex usually rejected me, so eventually it was easier to stop initiating and reject her the rare times she was interested. I still wanted sex, just no longer wanted it with her - which is part of why I initiated a divorce.
Yes, I can say the same thing. "Sometimes, the blame is well-placed. My ex usually rejected me, so eventually it was easier to stop initiating and reject HIM the rare times HE was interested. I still wanted sex, just no longer wanted it with HIM - which is part of why I initiated a divorce."

See how that works.

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post #628 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 02:42 PM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

Sex-Starved Wives

The below text is quoted from the article because I know that many will not click through on a link on a forum.

=======================================

I heard a joke the other day that goes something like this. A couple seeks marital therapy. The wife complains that her husband isn't interested in having sex. At some point in the middle of the session the therapist grabs the woman and kisses her passionately while she "oohs" and "aahs" with delight. The therapist then turns to the husband and says, "See, your wife needs this every Monday, Wednesday and Friday." The husband is quiet for a moment and then replies, "Monday and Wednesday will work, but I can't get her here on Friday. I've got a golf game."

This joke caught my attention because it had an unfamiliar ring to it: the husband didn’t want sex. We’re used to the standard jokes about desire-less women who prefer doing just about anything—cleaning out the freezer, paying bills or taking out the garbage—over having sex with their mates. But this was a new twist, a twist I might add, that has quite a bit of truth to it.

As someone who is in the front lines with couples, I have grown increasingly aware that women have no corner on the low libido market. In fact, based on my clinical observations and casual conversations with colleagues, I’d say that low desire in men is America’s best kept secret. After all, in a culture where virility is inextricably connected with masculinity, why would any man want to broadcast his drop in desire? Most of the data available on the incidence of low libido in men is based on self-report and estimates vary widely. Do we really know what goes on behind bedroom doors? I don’t think so.

Although it isn’t hard core research by any stretch of the imagination, I teamed up with Redbook Magazine to survey women about their views on their husbands’ sexual appetites. We found some interesting results. I will mention just a few.

Sixty percent of the women surveyed said they wanted sex just as much, if not more, than their husbands. The majority of low desire men are unwilling to discuss this issue with their wives and resist seeking help from doctors or therapists. They also won’t talk to their buddies about it. (It’s hard to imagine a guy walking into a locker room, telling his friend, “I really wish my wife didn’t want sex all the time. I hate that she thinks of me as a sex object. And another thing…why can’t we hug without her thinking we have to have sex? She just has a one-track mind.”) Men’s unwillingness to openly discuss this matter leaves women feeling exasperated, lonely and hopeless.

Another interesting point is that the person with lower sexual desire (in this case, the husband) controls the frequency of sex. He has the veto power. Not only that, he expects his wife to accept it, not complain about it and to remain monogamous, an expectation that is bound to backfire over time. The survey also suggested that there is less sex in marriages when the husband has low desire than in marriages where women are the ones who say, “No.” That’s because, in our culture, men are expected to be the initiators and when it is the wife who initiates but gets turned down frequently, she is more likely to give up than her male counterpart.

Another myth-buster revealed by the survey was what women said were the causes for their husbands’ lack of desire. Contrary to popular belief that the only reason a man would turn down sex is because “his machinery isn’t working properly,” or their wives are extremely unattractive, this just isn’t so. Men, it seems, turn off to sex for many of the same reasons that their wives do- emotional disconnection, underlying resentment or unresolved problems, depression, stress and so on. In fact, one of the most common reasons men reject their wives’ advances is that they feel their wives are critical or bossy. Nagging simply isn’t an aphrodisiac.

The problem is, which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Are men turned off to being sexual because their wives complain, or do women complain and behave angrily because their husbands are physically and emotionally withdrawn? Ah yes, the infamous catch-22. And therein lies the problem. When there is a sexual divide, each spouse waits for the other to change. “If you are nice to me, then I’ll have sex with you,” or “When you have sex with me, I’ll be kinder to you.” You don’t need a degree in psychology to know that this sort of standoff is playing with fire. Stalemates make marriages go down the tubes.

And before I get nasty comments or emails about the fact that there are millions and millions of men who go to bed lonely,…. I know, I know. I have written extensively on this subject. For the record, I routinely encourage women who have little or no understanding about their husbands’ sexual needs to place more priority on their physical relationships. But now it’s time to nudge men who have shut down and turned off, to climb out of their comfort zone and reconnect with the women they love. Don’t you agree?

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Last edited by EleGirl; 08-28-2016 at 02:59 PM.
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post #629 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 03:11 PM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

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That's what moving the goalposts really looks like.
Felt a bit like bartering, controlling, and an admission that there is no real desire for sex to satiate physical needs with that particular person. I guess the last part might be wrong to the extent that it could be there for someone else. In the end, I wouldn't want sex because I'd believe it was duty sex to pay a debt, and there would be no desire and no love in it.

I'd probably say, "Just forget it".

@turnera, don't think I am assigning all of these to you. I am not. I get that it was a reaction to hurt and frustration, but not true feelings for your spouse.



Is it possible the reason women want to get married is to have someone around to help out? I guess that is expected, but it seems like this kind of response would mean that's all that is wanted. I think men and women are very far apart on things. It's sad.

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post #630 of 828 (permalink) Old 08-28-2016, 03:58 PM
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Re: Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?

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Yes, I can say the same thing. "Sometimes, the blame is well-placed. My ex usually rejected me, so eventually it was easier to stop initiating and reject HIM the rare times HE was interested. I still wanted sex, just no longer wanted it with HIM - which is part of why I initiated a divorce."

See how that works.
Yes, it can go both ways. How often it happens may be interesting, but understanding why is the only thing that may help to fix it. And as far as I can see from what I've experienced and read, that understanding is seldom forthcoming, as are solutions.

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