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post #31 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:04 AM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

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Pam needs to stay relevant and Assange apparently is not getting her the attention she was hoping for.
So does that negate her opinion? I am not a pro and anti Pam person, but it does seem like a topic she would have a decent amount of insight in to. Now, if she was in an article about taxes, then I would more quickly disregard lol

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post #32 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:06 AM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

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I don't understand what this has to do with feminism.
This is true. Men have come forward to tell about abusive situations visited upon them as well.
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post #33 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:31 AM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

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This is true. Men have come forward to tell about abusive situations visited upon them as well.
Terry Crews got his crank nearly yanked off by Adam Venit and is filing charges. He didn't place himself in a position to be molested by a coked up agent, yet it still happened. That's not the fault of feminism, flirting, millennials, or anything else that seems to be in vogue to blame everything on. That is the fault of a coked up agent looking to cop a feel, same as Weinstein.

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post #34 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:42 AM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

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Maybe in a regular, everyday occupation. But Hollywood is different. If you want fame and a multi-million dollar fortune, you might just make it on hard work alone. But you may have to sacrifice something in the early years to get there. Do the ends justify the means? Pamela admitted that she made mistakes early on, until she established her boundaries. And it may have cost her some roles but she has no regrets.
Why? Because it has always been so? Viva la power broker establishment?
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post #35 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:45 AM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

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There is all the difference in the world between a woman who voluntarily uses sex to get ahead in the world and a woman who is forced to have sex in order to keep her job.

BTW - neither is good. In the first case the woman is at fault for creating an improper atmosphere in the workplace. In the second the man is guilty of harassment / assault / rape depending on the details.


This is not new. Back in the the late 50s my mother was an opera singer. She had moved into a smaller professional opera company but was told in no uncertain terms that to get into the Met, she would have to have sex with the conductor. Ended her singing career.

Even if other singers did have sex with him "voluntarily" it creates a biased workplace with serious harassment.
Interesting.... happened to my mother too.

She did have a contract singing at the Met in the 1940's. The guy who controlled her contract was sexually harassing her. He told her that if she did not have sex with him he would cancel her contract. She did not comply and her contract was cancelled. That basically ended singing her career.

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post #36 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:57 AM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

That's really sad. Shows that harassment in the workplace has been going on a long time.

I don't see any reason actresses, opera singers, entertainers etc should be expected to have sex any more than any other workers should.

There is the fascinating question of the harassment rules for sex workers, but that is a different discussion.


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Interesting.... happened to my mother too.

She did have a contract singing at the Met in the 1940's. The guy who controlled her contract was sexually harassing her. He told her that if she did not have sex with him he would cancel her contract. She did not comply and her contract was cancelled. That basically ended singing her career.
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post #37 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:57 AM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

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"Forced to make a choice" - what is that exactly? Pam Anderson mentioned a 3rd option - just walk away. You may not get the role but at least you won't get "rolled".

In the early 1970's I worked for a guy who owned several businesses. I was in my early 20's and he was in his 50's. I spent a lot of time alone with him in a jewelry work shop where I was grinding stones and making jewelry (silver and gold smithing). He used to blab on for hours.. one of the topics he liked to go on about was all the women that he put in situations where they can to have sex with him or lose their jobs.

one of his other businesses was a restaurant. He said that he only hired waitresses that were single mothers with no help from the father of their children. Basically women in dire straights, trying to feed their kids. Once he hired them he would start demanding sex. He told me that he knew that he got them in a position where they depended on their job and could not just quit. He would laugh about them and tell me all about it. This was a town where there were no other jobs and the economy was bad. So the women were lucky to have any job at all. And he was more than glad to take advantage.

Shoot the bad economy and lack of jobs were the only reason I was working for the pig. I did have to eventually quit because after telling me all that he started pressuring me for sex. He was a family "friend". I knew his wife and kids. He knew my family, etc. But he still thought this was ok. When I quit, I job searched for the better part of a year and could not find a job... had to live off my MIL. Eventually I joined the Army to get away.

I was lucky because I was able to tell my MIL what was going on (My husband told me that I should just have sex with the guy and get lots of free jewelry that we could sell.) and she helped me out. So I was not some poor woman with no one who would help her, children to feed and a boss who held the control over the only job she could get. I could leave and did.

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post #38 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 11:08 AM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

@EleGirl, Do you think he was badmouthing you to potential employers?

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When I quit, I job searched for the better part of a year and could not find a job... had to live off my MIL. Eventually I joined the Army to get away.
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post #39 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 11:13 AM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

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That's really sad. Shows that harassment in the workplace has been going on a long time.

I don't see any reason actresses, opera singers, entertainers etc should be expected to have sex any more than any other workers should.

There is the fascinating question of the harassment rules for sex workers, but that is a different discussion.
This has gone on since the dawn of time, nothing new. What is new is that in more recent decades, we have enacted laws against this kind of harassment. They are still hard to enforce, but at least our society is trying to do something about it.

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post #40 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 11:17 AM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

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@EleGirl, Do you think he was badmouthing you to potential employers?
I have never thought of that. But an interesting thought....

What I do know that I could not find a job locally. Left NM and drove to NJ to live with my grandmother. I was able to get a good paying job in a week.. only applied for one job and go it. Then I joined the Army because there was no way I could live with my Grandmother and aunts... LOL


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post #41 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 12:48 PM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

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Why? Because it has always been so? Viva la power broker establishment?
Cause the only qualification is young and hot. No BS degree required to join SAG and star in a film. Thousands of new starry eyed's climb off the bus every year.
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post #42 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 01:05 PM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

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It would be interesting to get an opinion from an HR or legal professional who has had to deal with these issues.

I suppose it could be a long road for someone in the department to prove that the boss's paramour did not deserve the favoritism that they got.

But at the same time, some employers have rules that intimate relationship between employees at any level is not allowed. So just on that rule alone, all you would need to do is prove that an inappropriate relationship is in motion.
I helped get someone fired because he had raped two young female trainees.

They had confided in me and I encouraged them to report it to the woman who owned the company.


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post #43 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 01:30 PM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

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I helped get someone fired because he had raped two young female trainees.

They had confided in me and I encouraged them to report it to the woman who owned the company.
The scenario that I am referring to would be you trying to prove that your co-worker is having an affair with the boss and he /she is unfairly getting the better projects, perks and other signs of favoritism. In other words, that it appears (in any case) to be a consensual relationship.

Of course, things could happen...... A saleswoman told me that the head of sales was having an affair with one of the saleswomen. One evening her husband arrived in the company parking "to have a word with the gentleman......" (if you know what I mean). The head of sales was immediately demoted.
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post #44 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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"Forced to make a choice" - what is that exactly? Pam Anderson mentioned a 3rd option - just walk away. You may not get the role but at least you won't get "rolled".

In the early 1970's I worked for a guy who owned several businesses. I was in my early 20's and he was in his 50's. I spent a lot of time alone with him in a jewelry work shop where I was grinding stones and making jewelry (silver and gold smithing). He used to blab on for hours.. one of the topics he liked to go on about was all the women that he put in situations where they can to have sex with him or lose their jobs.

one of his other businesses was a restaurant. He said that he only hired waitresses that were single mothers with no help from the father of their children. Basically women in dire straights, trying to feed their kids. Once he hired them he would start demanding sex. He told me that he knew that he got them in a position where they depended on their job and could not just quit. He would laugh about them and tell me all about it. This was a town where there were no other jobs and the economy was bad. So the women were lucky to have any job at all. And he was more than glad to take advantage.

Shoot the bad economy and lack of jobs were the only reason I was working for the pig. I did have to eventually quit because after telling me all that he started pressuring me for sex. He was a family "friend". I knew his wife and kids. He knew my family, etc. But he still thought this was ok. When I quit, I job searched for the better part of a year and could not find a job... had to live off my MIL. Eventually I joined the Army to get away.

I was lucky because I was able to tell my MIL what was going on (My husband told me that I should just have sex with the guy and get lots of free jewelry that we could sell.) and she helped me out. So I was not some poor woman with no one who would help her, children to feed and a boss who held the control over the only job she could get. I could leave and did.
Very compelling story. I have heard others very similar. It breaks my heart that these male pigs could be so cruel and take advantage of a situation.

But what about personal integrity? Is there a line you wouldn't cross? My W was a model, starting as a teen. She constantly got propositioned to do nudes, dance at strip clubs, do porn, escort service, etc. She was taken advantage of several times with contracts/money management, yet she never crossed her personal boundary. Even after she became homeless for a time and was living out of her car when trying to switch careers.

A perfect marriage is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

Last edited by MAJDEATH; 12-07-2017 at 12:10 AM.
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post #45 of 51 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 04:20 PM
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Re: Victim-hood Feminism

Men aren't the only pigs in Hollywood. George Reeves (original Superman) was supposedly coerced into an affair with the wife of an MGM producer. Ethel Merman was known to go after the young guys like Jerry Orbach who toured with her.
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