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post #181 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-23-2018, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife and prayer

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This is my take on “Church” people such as your wife’s group and especially her mentor.
They see themselves as an insular group,they consider themselves “In the know” and while they will be very friendly and nice to strangers they never give an inch.The prayer leaders response to your concerns is an example.Also her praying for you is so patronizing I would have been unable to stop myself telling her exactly what to do with her meaningless platitudes.
When someone’s answer to a question or a difference of opinion is to start quoting scripture then it’s time to change the subject,and this thread is starting to go a little biblical for my taste.��

But above all @aRubix Cubed I want you to remember this.
These people judge everybody but themselves by their actions.
They judge themselves by their intentions.
I agree with much of the above sans the generalization that they are ALL that way, as I've seen it as well.
I do disagree with your take on the leader praying. Her prayer was more about my wife and I working this out and making a better marriage. I wish I had thought to record the whole meeting, with everyone's permission, so I could review it and pick up anything that I missed.
The bolded seems pretty accurate for many of them, but that also holds true for many non-Christians as well.Pretty much anyone who thinks strongly their cause is just. It's a pisser either way.

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post #182 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife and prayer

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BTW if either of you guys want to message me privately at any time please do.
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post #183 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 02:27 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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I can completely agree with #1. As far as #4 goes, if I have to be around others back slapping me to keep my faith, then my faith must be pretty weak.
I have been turned off more by pushy proselytizers than ever turned on, and it seems to me it makes more sense to share his word OUTSIDE of the church in a way that doesn't shut people off. Inside the church, you are literally preaching to the choir.
1. faith and preaching to the choir

Christians live in the same world as non Christians. We have the same pressures, disappointments, temptations.

God created people as social beings. He also knows that we can serve, encourage, teach, and love one another if we get together with Him as our main focus. That is Church.

It is not always the faith that grows weak, it is the flesh.

Even athletes have coaches and fans that encourage them to keep on going to win the race when they are tired and want to stop for a breath or to ease the pain. Why would an athlete who has trained for a race need to be encouraged to keep going? Has the athlete lost his desire to win just because he is tired and hurting? Usually not. It is just that he is pushing himself past his physical limits, and his body is crying out so loudly that it is in danger of overtaking his will to finish the race.

I cannot count the times I have been struggling with something and then I hear another Christian, whether it is the Pastor, a friend, a Bible Study partner, or a You Tube clip quote a Bible verse that addresses an aspect of my struggle, encouraging me, or sometimes completely re-framing my issue so I can see it in a different light and keep going forward.

Last September I had a major re-direction as a result of studying the Bible and discussing the chapters with other Christians who were studying the same chapters.

No one spoke what God made me realize. The understanding came as a result of everything I was reading and hearing with God's Spirit sorting it out inside of me.

2. back slapers

I don't know how you can say that, since you do not know what is in every person's heart and mind.

Respectfully, I want to say that you sound very judgmental of Christians.

I've been to shallow churches, where most of the people don't open up about what is really going on in their lives and they don't want to hear the difficult parts of other people's lives. Even in those churches my family has met some honest, open, vulnerable people who want to minister to others, or be encouraged themselves.

When a church has mostly superficial or closed off people, our family has moved on to find a group of people, or "church" where people are genuine and not afraid to acknowledge that everyone's lives are not always perfect.

Our current Pastor has pointed out multiple times that life and relationships are messy...for Christians and non Christians. He knows some (many) people sitting in front of him are hurting, frustrated, disappointed, etc. We are all encouraged to listen, help and encourage one another.

There is a couple at our church who are greeters. On the surface they seem like happy people who have it all together. Their adult son died a couple of years ago, and they still struggle with sadness over that. Are they "back slappers" because they forget about their pain for a few minutes and smile as they greet people at the door? I think being greeters is a great ministry for them. They are able to forget about their personal pain for a while and bring some happiness into other people's lives when they greet them with a smile and a hug.

There is a current poster here on TAM who is so obsessed with his own disappointing life that he is a total downer for his wife and she is contemplating divorcing him. He would be better off if he took a few minutes to put himself aside and bless others, like the couple at our church. Then someone could catch him during a good moment and accuse him of being a "back slapper."
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post #184 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 02:38 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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but that also holds true for many non-Christians as well.Pretty much anyone who thinks strongly their cause is just. It's a pisser either way.
Pool boy or bible study boy-

Your wife imparted intimate details about your personal life that she knew you hated her doing.

If the pool boy wanted to "pray" for you and your marriage in between chlorine addition and scrubbing-

How would that matter?

Your wife is hiding behind the skirts of gospel, bible studies with the opposite sex and being naive?
What? Who me? We were praying for YOU.

I know you don't like me and think I should be banned but I've read your posts to other posters ...

You are not the poster boy for patience and kindness

Judge not lest you be Judged and all that good stuff.
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post #185 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 02:54 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Pool boy or bible study boy-

Your wife imparted intimate details about your personal life that she knew you hated her doing.

If the pool boy wanted to "pray" for you and your marriage in between chlorine addition and scrubbing-

How would that matter?

Your wife is hiding behind the skirts of gospel, bible studies with the opposite sex and being naive?
What? Who me? We were praying for YOU.

I know you don't like me and think I should be banned but I've read your posts to other posters ...

You are not the poster boy for patience and kindness

Judge not lest you be Judged and all that good stuff.
I realized something about religion once and I have never shared it with anyone but here goes.
There is a lot of hiding places in a church but there are a lot more in a bible.
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post #186 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 03:02 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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I I wish I had thought to record the whole meeting, with everyone's permission, so I could review it and pick up anything that I missed.
If you ask for their permission to record the meeting they will be very careful with what they say. As long as one person (you) know the meeting is being recorded, you are legal. You don't owe them any advance warning that you are recording the meeting, even if they are Christians.

I record every important meeting I'm in since a Pastor yelled at me and falsely accused me during a phone conversation years ago. I told my husband about what was said, and he took it to the elders. The pastor denied it, and of course they believed him. Had I recorded that conversation, the Pastor would have been forced to admit what he said, and held accountable. We left that church.

Later on someone from that church called me to ask why we weren't going anymore. When I told her what the pastor said to me, she said that she had heard a similar story from another woman whose family left.

That church was actually the only one we attended where many of the people seemed fake. We weren't fake, and that is why the pastor didn't like me. He said that "I was like a woman who used to attend." He later denied having said that, along with other things.
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post #187 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 03:16 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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I realized something about religion once and I have never shared it with anyone but here goes.
There is a lot of hiding places in a church but there are a lot more in a bible.
Jim Jones could recite scripture that would put most to shame.

That little Guyana bible study did not end well for the faithful flock.

The Boys at the Vatican?

And then there are your home towners...
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post #188 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Respectfully, I want to say that you sound very judgmental of Christians.
Respect is earned and it's a two way street. It's a reap what you sow thing.
I went to church for a decade and a half when I was young ,before I stopped. I saw the hypocritical backstabbers, the money changers (folks who use church for business) still alive and well, and people who were at church for every reason but God. I choose not to be around that even if it means I miss out on the good people that are there.
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post #189 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 03:38 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Jim Jones could recite scripture that would put most to shame.

That little Guyana bible study did not end well for the faithful flock.

The Boys at the Vatican?

And then there are your home towners...
Yeah, Cardinal Francis Law could give the mafia a few lessons.
TOM McCarthy **** on those paedo bastards from on high.
Which of them believed he was doing the lords work do you think?
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post #190 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 03:42 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Sans the mumble jumble(is that a Rickyism?) part, I have to agree with you. More like a minefield. Unless maybe you met your spouse in church.
Well I have found that being in a Christian marriage is great, but if you dont share the faith its hard.

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post #191 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 03:42 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Respect is earned and it's a two way street. It's a reap what you sow thing.
I went to church for a decade and a half when I was young ,before I stopped. I saw the hypocritical backstabbers, the money changers (folks who use church for business) still alive and well, and people who were at church for every reason but God. I choose not to be around that even if it means I miss out on the good people that are there.
I don't find that here. It seems to be the genuine believers who go to church here. No we aren't perfect but we are all out for God.
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post #192 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 03:48 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Well I have found that being in a Christian marriage is great, but if you dont share the faith its hard.
Here is the Point-

Religion does not bathe an evil person in goodness and light and many times draws the moth to the flame and we all know how that ends up.

Some of the most vile and destructive in world history could out scripture you Diana and then make it a glowing Sunday love sermon.

And one of them might be your next door neighbor that you invite over for pint after service.
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post #193 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Pool boy or bible study boy-

Your wife imparted intimate details about your personal life that she knew you hated her doing.

If the pool boy wanted to "pray" for you and your marriage in between chlorine addition and scrubbing-

How would that matter?

Your wife is hiding behind the skirts of gospel, bible studies with the opposite sex and being naive?
What? Who me? We were praying for YOU.

I know you don't like me and think I should be banned but I've read your posts to other posters ...

You are not the poster boy for patience and kindness

Judge not lest you be Judged and all that good stuff.
I'll try to respond point by point.

I'm with you on most of this with the exception she hasn't tried to hide behind "it" since she told me, she certainly seemed to before that though. Using it originally to justify to herself that hiding it from me was OK for those 4 years, then switching up to she was scared how I would respond to being told.

Doesn't matter a bit to me. I'm not hung up on the circumstance and I cut no more slack to the pious flirt than I do the "poolboy" (which seems pointless since I don't have a pool, remind me to fire him). You seem to be the one hung up on the circumstance. If anything I hold the pious flirt MORE accountable because he, being a Christian, knows better, there is no excuse for it.

To be clear, I don't dislike you. I do not like when you storm into threads with obvious/useless information and express it in a way that is provoking and trying to push the OP's buttons like a troll. This post wasn't one of those posts. It seemed to have a purpose beyond trying to get a rise out of someone. When I replied to you earlier I had just read your attack on donesies and then me, just for context.

re: My patience and kindness. I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I think maybe you read me wrong. I have NEVER claimed to be patient or full of kindness, and I don't think I have tried to fool anyone, especially on TAM or this thread, into thinking that I am. I'm trying to do better but I also prefer to cut to the chase and be succinct. In the words of Jules Winnfield "But I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd."

Last edited by Rubix Cubed; 02-24-2018 at 04:46 PM.
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post #194 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 04:05 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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The difference in @Diana7 and me is very clear.She is a woman who had a long marriage with children,she divorced her husband and stayed single for a number of years and then she met her second husband on a Christian dating site,fell in love with him and married.She has been very clear on numerous threads that her two husbands are the only men she has ever slept with and her current husband also only ever slept with Diana and his first wife.
I played the field for years,I traveled constantly and had a (God given ��) ability to attract women and I used it to its full extent.I never tried to pick up married or engaged women,if they were wearing a ring then it was a no go area as far as I was concerned.
The reason I’m making these points is that Diana just doesn’t know how most men think,she has had a sheltered existence when it comes to the opposite sex.I’m not judging by any means but a woman or a man who has never had a ons or a weekend fling has no right telling someone what is going on in the mind of a player or what seems to be the case here a wannabe player. It’s as ridiculous as a catholic priest who practices celibacy advising married couples on their sex life.
I’m not surprised your wife hates my posts,the truth hurts even if it only partly true.

As far as me seeing the worst case scenario,in my business that’s what keeps you going when others flounder.
Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
You are so very wrong about me, I have seen and experienced far more of this sort of thing that you think. I have had multiple people in my family cheat or be cheated on, with divorces caused by it, including my dad who had a long affair with another woman and probably several more as well. My first husbands father cheated on his mum, his grand father did the same, my grandfather on my dads side did the same and 2 sisters in law cheated.
I have 2 brothers, a son and 2 step sons and a Son in law, so yes I spend lots of time with adult men. I have also been married to one man(not a Christian who had had sex with several women before we met), for 25 years, and one for 12 years so yes I know men fairly well.
However not all men are players and most men in the church aren't in my experience of mixing with Christians for a lot of my 61 years.
My life has been anything but sheltered. A lady I once spoke to who was a trained counsellor said that she had never met anyone who has been though more in life than I had. I just don't go on about it or mention it on a public forum and I am not going to now. This is as well as what I have already mentioned.

You have no proof at all of what this man is like, presumably you think he is like you and the men you know?Actually there are many men in the church who are pretty naive when it comes to women, and many more who are genuine good moral guys.

You are judging a man you know nothing about, not all men are just out to get a woman to bed believe me.


You are also presumably not a churchgoer/Christian so have little experience of Christians and the groups they hold.

Last edited by Diana7; 02-24-2018 at 04:15 PM.
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post #195 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-24-2018, 04:24 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Here is the Point-

Religion does not bathe an evil person in goodness and light and many times draws the moth to the flame and we all know how that ends up.

Some of the most vile and destructive in world history could out scripture you Diana and then make it a glowing Sunday love sermon.

And one of them might be your next door neighbor that you invite over for pint after service.
I have had experience of being married to a non Christian and then a Christian. I know which is by far the best. I would never marry someone who didn't share my faith again.
I am sure there are a tiny number of people who aren't genuine Christians in the church, but to be honest they could far more easily get a quick lay outside the church than in it, so why bother? They could go to a night club or bar and probably meet a women who was too drunk to what what she was doing and take advantage of her and have sex with her that night. Or they could find a prostitute.
My experience of Christian men is that most have strong moral values and bags of integrity.
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