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post #106 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 03:24 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Originally Posted by Rubix Cubed View Post
Same question to everyone. Do you tell your spouse if you feel an attraction to someone?

For clarification I was more referring to a person they have an ongoing presence with like a co-worker, classmate, neighbor, business associate, bible study group co-attendee, etc. Someone you and your spouse will/may run into through your daily life, not strangers walking down the street or unattainable movie stars.
Language is complicated. For me, "feel an attraction" to someone is definitely stronger than "thought someone was good looking". I think feeling an attraction means that you have a real desire to be with someone.

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post #107 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 03:31 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

@Rubix Cubed you said in a previous post about when you met the leader of the prayer group along with your wife that you thought they would gang up on you but you were surprised when they didnít.
They did,you just didnít realize it.You left the meeting quite happy that your wife and her mentor/prayer group leader agreed with all your points and the leader would reinforce your boundaries if necessary.They have agreed to nothing of the sort and both tried to alleviate your fears by saying that the other man was harmless.The only person who conceded any ground here was you in saying you would consider allowing your wife back to the prayer meetings,however when you asked ,your wife said she wasnít going to attend this semester,but you had allready said you hadnít given your wife permission to attend anyway?
Then you gave the prayer leader the ok to contact this guy to explain what is going on.That was just her way of tipping off one of her flock.The most worrying thing I have read on this thread was your wife and her mentor both agreed that om was ďharmlessĒ,how many times have we heard this before.
I am scratching my head here because for some reason you seem convinced that you have came across as a strong willed man who is in control of his marriage.You are dealing with religion here and I donít think you fully understand where they are coming from.You called it a happy family and you are right but you are not a member of this family so they donít care about you.They only care about themselves and if your have to lose your wife so that their little group stays intact,well thatís gods work and who are we to question him.
Accept this.Your wife is lying to you,she remembers every discussion she ever had about you and youíre marriage but itís easier to say she canít remember than to be honest with you about how she enjoyed chatting with this guy.Trying to get information from your wife must be exhausting.You call it browbeating but itís more like pulling teeth.
Suncmars puts it more eloquently than I could, but do what he suggests about telling your wife how much she means to you,but ad the proviso that you will not share your mate and would prefer to be alone than have this nightmare continue.
Again, keep the fox out of the henhouse,even if he is disguised as a lamb.
One more thing.Is Diana7 your wifeís prayer group leader?
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post #108 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 03:50 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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@Rubix Cubed
I am scratching my head here because for some reason you seem convinced that you have came across as a strong willed man who is in control of his marriage.You are dealing with religion here and I donít think you fully understand where they are coming from.You called it a happy family and you are right but you are not a member of this family so they donít care about you.They only care about themselves and if your have to lose your wife so that their little group stays intact,well thatís gods work and who are we to question him.
Accept this.Your wife is lying to you,she remembers every discussion she ever had about you and youíre marriage but itís easier to say she canít remember than to be honest with you about how she enjoyed chatting with this guy.Trying to get information from your wife must be exhausting.You call it browbeating but itís more like pulling teeth.
Suncmars puts it more eloquently than I could, but do what he suggests about telling your wife how much she means to you,but ad the proviso that you will not share your mate and would prefer to be alone than have this nightmare continue.
Again, keep the fox out of the henhouse,even if he is disguised as a lamb.
One more thing.Is Diana7 your wifeís prayer group leader?
Andy, you obviously don't know the heart of every Christian. There are people who call themselves Christians who are more concerned with their "ministry" surviving than they are about being in God's will.

However there are Christians who love God more than they do themselves, and want to do what is right even at their own expense.

You do not know the leader to know which she is. You have no right to falsely accuse her without knowing her heart.


That is a ridiculous statement, Andy. Can you even remember the names of every woman you spent hours bedding? I'm sure you cannot. You cannot remember the conversations you had with them either.

Rubix Cube's wife may very well have forgotten the details of the one conversation she had with him...which only lasted for minutes.


What you said about @Diana7 is low and uncalled for.
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post #109 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 03:57 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Andy, you obviously don't know the heart of every Christian. There are people who call themselves Christians who are more concerned with their "ministry" surviving than they are about being in God's will.

However there are Christians who love God more than they do themselves, and want to do what is right even at their own expense.

You do not know the leader to know which she is. You have no right to falsely accuse her without knowing her heart.


That is a ridiculous statement, Andy. Can you even remember the names of every woman you spent hours bedding? I'm sure you cannot. You cannot remember the conversations you had with them either.

Rubix Cube's wife may very well have forgotten the details of the one conversation she had with him...which only lasted for minutes.


What you said about @Diana7 is low and uncalled for.
First of all what I said about Diana was a joke and I think she will get it even if you donít.
When it comes to organized religion I know a hell of a lot more about it than you think.
As for the conversation between her and him,if she only had one conversation with him then surely she can remember it.
And Iím not really sure what my ex girlfriends have to do with the matter anyway but if I only had one Iím pretty certain I could remember her name.
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post #110 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 04:48 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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First of all what I said about Diana was a joke and I think she will get it even if you don’t.
When it comes to organized religion I know a hell of a lot more about it than you think.
As for the conversation between her and him,if she only had one conversation with him then surely she can remember it.
And I’m not really sure what my ex girlfriends have to do with the matter anyway but if I only had one I’m pretty certain I could remember her name.
Your post about Diana, coming from an internet stranger, to another internet stranger, sounded like a sarcastic jab. I didn't know you knew Diana that well. I just know her from her posts here. I hope you are right, and I just didn't get your joke, and if I stuck up for her needlessly, I apologize for butting in where I didn't belong.

Regarding the prayer group leader, you are accusing a person, and you defend yourself by saying you know "organized religion." They are not equal. Individuals make up organized religions, and those people are not all identical. I have known amazingly fair and just Christians, and have known ones like you described, yet you paint all with a dark brush.

Are all Muslims child rapists even if their book says it is OK? No.

Are all Christians lovers of themselves and their prayer group's existence ignoring the Biblical mandate to "love your neighbor as yourself." No. That mandate means one's Christian and non Christian neighbor. If I had to choose who should live, a Christian or a non Christian, I would choose for the non Christian to live, because it would give the non Christian more time to know Christ, whereas the Christian knows Christ and would be going to be with Him in death. So your accusation that Christians don't love non Christians (people not in their group, according to you) is untrue beginning with me. I know there are a lot more Christians than just myself who would be willing to give their own life if they were forced to choose who lives and who dies.

The reason I brought up your ONS (my knowledge is based on your own posts in other threads over the year) is to stress the point that people forget things. They even forget things said by and to people with whom they spent hours. (And I don't believe you remember the names of every woman you bedded. Girlfriends, yes, ONS, no.)

I don't believe Rubix's wife is lying, because she didn't ever need to tell him anything in the first place. Maybe she is lying, maybe she is not. No one knows for certain either way. Even in a court of law, one cannot be convicted unless they are proven to be guilty. If there is any doubt, they must be found not guilty. The circumstances around Rubix Cubed's wife's conversation 4 years ago leave a lot of room for doubt.
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post #111 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 04:58 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Your post about Diana, coming from an internet stranger, to another internet stranger, sounded like a sarcastic jab. I didn't know you knew Diana that well. I just know her from her posts here. I hope you are right, and I just didn't get your joke, and if I stuck up for her needlessly, I apologize for butting in where I didn't belong.

Regarding the prayer group leader, you are accusing a person, and you defend yourself by saying you know "organized religion." They are not equal. Individuals make up organized religions, and those people are not all identical. I have known amazingly fair and just Christians, and have known ones like you described, yet you paint all with a dark brush.

Are all Muslims child rapists even if their book says it is OK? No.

Are all Christians lovers of themselves and their prayer group's existence ignoring the Biblical mandate to "love your neighbor as yourself." No. That mandate means one's Christian and non Christian neighbor. If I had to choose who should live, a Christian or a non Christian, I would choose for the non Christian to live, because it would give the non Christian more time to know Christ, whereas the Christian knows Christ and would be going to be with Him in death. So your accusation that Christians don't love non Christians (people not in their group, according to you) is untrue beginning with me. I know there are a lot more Christians than just myself who would be willing to give their own life if they were forced to choose who lives and who dies.

The reason I brought up your ONS (my knowledge is based on your own posts in other threads over the year) is to stress the point that people forget things. They even forget things said by and to people with whom they spent hours. (And I don't believe you remember the names of every woman you bedded. Girlfriends, yes, ONS, no.)

I don't believe Rubix's wife is lying, because she didn't ever need to tell him anything in the first place. Maybe she is lying, maybe she is not. No one knows for certain either way. Even in a court of law, one cannot be convicted unless they are proven to be guilty. If there is any doubt, they must be found not guilty. The circumstances around Rubix Cubed's wife's conversation 4 years ago leave a lot of room for doubt.
I would really love to get into a debate about religion,organized or not,but this isnít my thread so I will leave it at that.
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post #112 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Originally Posted by Araucaria View Post

That is a ridiculous statement, Andy. Can you even remember the names of every woman you spent hours bedding? I'm sure you cannot. You cannot remember the conversations you had with them either.

Rubix Cube's wife may very well have forgotten the details of the one conversation she had with him...which only lasted for minutes.

Just to clarify for accuracy, there were many conversations.They were in this prayer group together for 10 years, 2 of them being AFTER the known inappropriate conversation and She can't remember any of them with the comment that, many were about scripture or him quoting scripture. I'm with Andy on this. I think there are lies of omission and minimization here. I'm almost certain of it. She recalls what he said to her because she was shocked, but can't remember anything she said about me. The end result being someone else committed the known foul. She has told me in general what she said to other women about me, but I believe that is being minimized as well. Short of using some serious interrogation techniques (my jumper cables are broken and I'm out of sponges, by the way) the only way I'll get this is when she decides I do. It's not helping things the longer it takes, and hopefully she realizes that.

@Andy1001
Quote:
Trying to get information from your wife must be exhausting.You call it browbeating but it’s more like pulling teeth.
Yep, it truly sucks and wastes a huge amount of time when we could be moving on and trying to make things better.

I did come out of that meeting feeling good but don't think for a second that your thought wasn't on my mind the whole time. Even though they didn't verbally gang up on me I knew I was the odd man out, and I'm way out, I've told her this before. I agree with you somewhat about the loyalties but I also know many of the other people in this group and their character, and I'm reasonably sure (like 99% only because I never say never) they wouldn't let something like this happen in front of them and or try to enable it. Though I may come across on here as being undecided, I'm anything but a weak minded individual. At this point, there is no difference in what is happening and what I offered, but I do have a better idea of my wife's commitment. She already made it clear she enjoyed chatting with this guy, and he being made aware really doesn't change a thing, it may give him the opportunity to not act like a dumbass again if he actually is innocent. My email to him left no doubt what I thought, so he was not unaware. I'm listening to everyone and contemplating what has been advised, but I also have a plan to proceed and adapting as needed.

I've also been reading daily on these forums for over 2 years and remember when you showed up. I followed your story closely and as far as payback it's one of the best , but that aggressiveness seems to show up in your posts no matter the offense or at what level, NTTIATWWT /not judging, and I take that with the rest and try to come up with what I can live with. So instead of telling me what I'm doing wrong, tell me exactly what you think I should do and what your endgame would look like, and keep in mind I don't have the re$ource$ that you do so having my own private spec ops team kidnap the guy and interrogate him on my private island isn't an option this week.

Last edited by Rubix Cubed; 02-21-2018 at 05:27 PM. Reason: clarification.
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post #113 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife and prayer

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I would really love to get into a debate about religion,organized or not,but this isnít my thread so I will leave it at that.
Take it to Politics and Religion, start it up and I'll be there with bells on.
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post #114 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 05:39 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Just to clarify for accuracy, there were many conversations.They were in this prayer group together for 10 years, 2 of them being AFTER the known inappropriate conversation and She can't remember any of them with the comment that, many were about scripture or him quoting scripture. I'm with Andy on this. I think there are lies of omission and minimization here. I'm almost certain of it. She recalls what he said to her because she was shocked, but can't remember anything she said about me. The end result being someone else committed the known foul. She has told me in general what she said to other women about me, but I believe that is being minimized as well. Short of using some serious interrogation techniques (my jumper cables are broken and I'm out of sponges, by the way) the only way I'll get this is when she decides I do. It's not helping things the longer it takes, and hopefully she realizes that.

@Andy1001

Yep, it truly sucks and wastes a huge amount of time when we could be moving on and trying to make things better.

I did come out of that meeting feeling good but don't think for a second that your thought wasn't on my mind the whole time. Even though they didn't verbally gang up on me I knew I was the odd man out, and I'm way out, I've told her this before. I agree with you somewhat about the loyalties but I also know many of the other people in this group and their character, and I'm reasonably sure (like 99% only because I never say never) they wouldn't let something like this happen in front of them and or try to enable it. Though I may come across on here as being undecided, I'm anything but a weak minded individual. At this point, there is no difference in what is happening and what I offered, but I do have a better idea of my wife's commitment. She already made it clear she enjoyed chatting with this guy, and he being made aware really doesn't change a thing, it may give him the opportunity to not act like a dumbass again if he actually is innocent. My email to him left no doubt what I thought, so he was not unaware. I'm listening to everyone and contemplating what has been advised, but I also have a plan to proceed and adapting as needed.

I've also been reading daily on these forums for over 2 years and remember when you showed up. I followed your story closely and as far as payback it's one of the best , but that aggressiveness seems to show up in your posts no matter the offense or at what level, NTTIATWWT /not judging, and I take that with the rest and try to come up with what I can live with. So instead of telling me what I'm doing wrong, tell me exactly what you think I should do and what your endgame would look like, and keep in mind I don't have the re$ource$ that you do so having my own private spec ops team kidnap the guy and interrogate him on my private island isn't an option this week.
If you have a problem with someone interfering in your marriage,even if it is by enabling someone else then cut them out of your life.
In other words do not let your wife have any contact with the guy in question and if he is welcome at the prayer meeting then make it clear to your wife she will not be attending,if she wants to still be your wife that is.And I donít trust the prayer group leader,anyone whoís answer to you being worried about your marriage is to tell you the other man is harmless is bad news.
Thatís what you hear when someone does something crazy,Ēoh we thought he was harmlessĒ

As far as me being aggressive is concerned it is only on tam,in my regular life I am the most relaxed man you will ever meet.My girlfriend tells me I never raise my voice even when I am really pissed but she knows the signs,Iím just not used to people not doing what I tell them lol.I sold my private Island by the way,too many tourists donít you know.

ďIf you have a problem with a man and you get rid of the man then you also get rid of the problemĒ
I bet Iím the first person on tam to ever quote Josef Stalin.😀

Last edited by Andy1001; 02-21-2018 at 05:57 PM.
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post #115 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 05:39 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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That's great info and how she would likely see it. I just wish God had been a bit more expedient as in the night it happened and this would have been a much smaller deal to me.

I'm trying to keep this in perspective and think I have done a good job with that, asking for advice here when I thought I may be overdoing it. If it had been an EA my request for advice would have been more along the lines of who's a good attorney.

Yes I think you have done a good job. I think you are both working together on this. I have strong boundaries as well as I have seen too many marriages and lives destroyed through people getting too close to others, some in my own family, and that's why I know they are important. I hope and pray that you will be able to forgive and look forward now. I think God is on the case.

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post #116 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 05:44 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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@Rubix Cubed you said in a previous post about when you met the leader of the prayer group along with your wife that you thought they would gang up on you but you were surprised when they didn’t.
They did,you just didn’t realize it.You left the meeting quite happy that your wife and her mentor/prayer group leader agreed with all your points and the leader would reinforce your boundaries if necessary.They have agreed to nothing of the sort and both tried to alleviate your fears by saying that the other man was harmless.The only person who conceded any ground here was you in saying you would consider allowing your wife back to the prayer meetings,however when you asked ,your wife said she wasn’t going to attend this semester,but you had allready said you hadn’t given your wife permission to attend anyway?
Then you gave the prayer leader the ok to contact this guy to explain what is going on.That was just her way of tipping off one of her flock.The most worrying thing I have read on this thread was your wife and her mentor both agreed that om was “harmless”,how many times have we heard this before.
I am scratching my head here because for some reason you seem convinced that you have came across as a strong willed man who is in control of his marriage.You are dealing with religion here and I don’t think you fully understand where they are coming from.You called it a happy family and you are right but you are not a member of this family so they don’t care about you.They only care about themselves and if your have to lose your wife so that their little group stays intact,well that’s gods work and who are we to question him.
Accept this.Your wife is lying to you,she remembers every discussion she ever had about you and you’re marriage but it’s easier to say she can’t remember than to be honest with you about how she enjoyed chatting with this guy.Trying to get information from your wife must be exhausting.You call it browbeating but it’s more like pulling teeth.
Suncmars puts it more eloquently than I could, but do what he suggests about telling your wife how much she means to you,but ad the proviso that you will not share your mate and would prefer to be alone than have this nightmare continue.
Again, keep the fox out of the henhouse,even if he is disguised as a lamb.
One more thing.Is Diana7 your wife’s prayer group leader?
Not likely as I am from the UK.
I just sense that this wasn't too serious and that they can put it behind them. If she didn't care, then why would she tell him about it after 2 years? Her conscience was telling her to confess, and how many women would have done that?

I cant remember conversations that I had with people that far back. I am sure that not many of us could. Remember that the church is a family like our blood families. Families do get close and that why we need to be cautious and careful. She made a mistake, not a very serious one, and its being dealt with. Please move on and enjoy your marriage together. Don't let ones mans views make you doubt your wife.

So many here think the worse of others, and sometimes that doesn't apply and I feel strongly that this lady haS realise that she didn't act as she should and that God is dealing with her about it.

Last edited by Diana7; 02-21-2018 at 06:00 PM.
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post #117 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 05:51 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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@Rubix Cubed you said in a previous post about when you met the leader of the prayer group along with your wife that you thought they would gang up on you but you were surprised when they didn’t.
They did,you just didn’t realize it.You left the meeting quite happy that your wife and her mentor/prayer group leader agreed with all your points and the leader would reinforce your boundaries if necessary.They have agreed to nothing of the sort and both tried to alleviate your fears by saying that the other man was harmless.The only person who conceded any ground here was you in saying you would consider allowing your wife back to the prayer meetings,however when you asked ,your wife said she wasn’t going to attend this semester,but you had allready said you hadn’t given your wife permission to attend anyway?
Then you gave the prayer leader the ok to contact this guy to explain what is going on.That was just her way of tipping off one of her flock.The most worrying thing I have read on this thread was your wife and her mentor both agreed that om was “harmless”,how many times have we heard this before.
I am scratching my head here because for some reason you seem convinced that you have came across as a strong willed man who is in control of his marriage.You are dealing with religion here and I don’t think you fully understand where they are coming from.You called it a happy family and you are right but you are not a member of this family so they don’t care about you.They only care about themselves and if your have to lose your wife so that their little group stays intact,well that’s gods work and who are we to question him.
Accept this.Your wife is lying to you,she remembers every discussion she ever had about you and you’re marriage but it’s easier to say she can’t remember than to be honest with you about how she enjoyed chatting with this guy.Trying to get information from your wife must be exhausting.You call it browbeating but it’s more like pulling teeth.
Suncmars puts it more eloquently than I could, but do what he suggests about telling your wife how much she means to you,but ad the proviso that you will not share your mate and would prefer to be alone than have this nightmare continue.
Again, keep the fox out of the henhouse,even if he is disguised as a lamb.
One more thing.Is Diana7 your wife’s prayer group leader?
I have been to many different churches over 60 years and believe me they care very much about others especially the families of those they know. I have several friends whose husband's don't go to church and we never talk badly about them EVER, and if they are ill or whatever we always pray for them and ask after them. The same with other family members they have, we care.

I don't see what you do at all, I think the leader dealt with it very well and with wisdom and common sense.
His wife seems sorry, repentant and prepared to do what it takes to make this right. We don't get spouses on here very often who do that.

Last edited by Diana7; 02-21-2018 at 06:01 PM.
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post #118 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 05:56 PM
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Originally Posted by Rubix Cubed View Post
Just to clarify for accuracy, there were many conversations.They were in this prayer group together for 10 years, 2 of them being AFTER the known inappropriate conversation and She can't remember any of them with the comment that, many were about scripture or him quoting scripture. I'm with Andy on this. I think there are lies of omission and minimization here. I'm almost certain of it. She recalls what he said to her because she was shocked, but can't remember anything she said about me. The end result being someone else committed the known foul. She has told me in general what she said to other women about me, but I believe that is being minimized as well. Short of using some serious interrogation techniques (my jumper cables are broken and I'm out of sponges, by the way) the only way I'll get this is when she decides I do. It's not helping things the longer it takes, and hopefully she realizes that.
:
Being in a prayer group is not the same thing as going away alone and having a private conversation. How many private conversations did they have that she can't remember?

Like Diana I've not been in a Bible study where anyone complained or exposed intimate details about their spouse or marriage, except for a couple of women going through nasty separations or divorces with abusive, neglectful or drug addicted spouses (who were not walking with God at the time).

Many prayer groups are too big, and there are people in them that you don't know that well, so it is not a good idea to tell things that can be misjudged or taken out of context by people who do not know you and your spouse well. When people are still married and not actively divorcing they usually don't want to say things about their spouse that will be held against them by outsiders long after the problems have been resolved.

If she can't remember anything she has said about you to the prayer group over the years, yet she admits she has shared things, I agree with Andy that she is lying. Even if she doesn't remember the exact words, she can remember what was happening and her feelings about it and that it was big enough to bring up in the prayer group.

Last edited by Adelais; 02-22-2018 at 04:30 PM. Reason: grammar
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post #119 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife and prayer

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In other words do not let your wife have any contact with the guy in question and if he is welcome at the prayer meeting then make it clear to your wife she will not be attending,if she wants to still be your wife that is.
Those were the exact words I used and that's where it stands right now. The upside is she chose it to be that way whether I demanded it or not.

[/QUOTE]
As far as me being aggressive is concerned it is only on tam, in my regular life I am the most relaxed man you will ever meet.My girlfriend tells me I never raise my voice even when I am really pissed but she knows the signs,Iím just not used to people not doing what I tell them lol.I sold my private Island by the way,too many tourists donít you know.

ďIf you have a problem with a man and you get rid of the man then you also get rid of the problemĒ
I bet Iím the first person on tam to ever quote Josef Stalin.😀[/QUOTE]

That's funny, because I'm more aggressive than I come off on here, but I'm working on that.
I googled your Stalin quote because I actually kind of like it and didn't really want to like a Stalin quote. The results are frickin hilarious.
https://www.google.com/search?q=%E2%...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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post #120 of 295 (permalink) Old 02-21-2018, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife and prayer

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Originally Posted by Araucaria View Post
Being in a prayer group is not the same thing as going away alone and having a private conversation. How many private conversations did they have that she can't remember?
It was private in the sense that it wasn't during the group meeting, like on a break, before or after, walking out to the cars. She says other people were "around" just not part of their conversation. I wouldn't consider talking in a group private. As far as how many times, who knows, she doesn't or won't divulge it to me if she does.
Can you get amnesia without hitting your head?

Last edited by Rubix Cubed; 02-21-2018 at 07:06 PM. Reason: Grammar
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