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post #91 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 11:58 AM
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

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Originally Posted by 3Xnocharm View Post
This is what my XH used to do to me. He would get bent out of shape off the rails over something stupid like this, while I stand there with my mouth hanging open because its so absurd, and he wouldnt talk to me for 3 days. Once he got done pouting, he would go back to talking without another mention of said offense nor any apology ever.
For me it was different. She would start an absurd argument. I would refuse to participate in said argument. I would try to talk about something else and she would be cold. This lead to nobody talking. After a few days (sometimes weeks) I would eventually give in. At this point, she declares that I was pouting. That I don't communicate.


2/3s dead!
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post #92 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Why Bother View Post
What I say was not accurate, what I seen was not accurate his opinion was the only one that mattered mine didn't.
Maybe just maybe...... could yours and others who experience this type of treatment be. Who will get the last word of the argument, (literally) is already known and the person just decided not to go down the same beaten path over and over and therefore a choice between the lesser is performed yet again. And could be thought in the stonewallers mind l know how this dance ends.

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post #93 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 11:05 AM
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

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Originally Posted by Tilted 1 View Post
Maybe just maybe...... could yours and others who experience this type of treatment be. Who will get the last word of the argument, (literally) is already known and the person just decided not to go down the same beaten path over and over and therefore a choice between the lesser is performed yet again. And could be thought in the stonewallers mind l know how this dance ends.
Maybe, yes. I think sometimes people are protecting themselves, other times they are doing it to hurt others.

Besides being silent when they other person is just angry and argumentative, or using it to hurt the other person on purpose when their spouse is trying to communicate.

A third option might be that the person who goes silent feels there's nothing they can really say for themselves besides "I messed up, I'm sorry. I'll try to be better" but that's not really satisfactory for the partner who is pushing the issue for a fix. They need MORE! But what else is there to give? They keep pushing and poking and you've really got nothing else to say at that point that hasn't already been said. At this point, you have two options. Engage in anger back towards them, or just go silent and hope their anger goes away.

Then there are some who bring up the past in every argument. So the silent one doesn't engage even when they might be right in this particular scuffle, because they did something 15 years ago that will surely get brought back up which basically makes any gripe they have invalid.

There's many reasons people stone wall. Turns out I can only think of one reason that isn't a defense mechanism, and several that are. So it begs the question, who has the issue with communication? The silent one, or the one being stonewalled?

If my devils are to leave me, I'm afraid my angels will take flight as well.
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post #94 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 11:13 AM
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

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Originally Posted by Ursula View Post
This can be dangerous too though because with texting, thereís no tone. From personal experience, at times during a texting argument/discussion, my messages have been taken the wrong way because the person on the receiving end canít gauge my tone, and they usually gauge it wrong, and then I need to backpedal to explain things further. So, when arguing or even just having a deep discussion over text, please be careful. With my current beau, if something needs to be said that has even a small possibility of being taken the wrong way, I pick up the phone and call him instead of texting.
Further explaining isn't a bad thing. There's already a misunderstanding being worked out in an argument. Not to mention I've had people assign their own meaning to my spoken words just the same, and I had to go back and clarify what I meant. It's really no different.

If my devils are to leave me, I'm afraid my angels will take flight as well.
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post #95 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 11:21 AM
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

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Originally Posted by TheDudeLebowski View Post
Further explaining isn't a bad thing. There's already a misunderstanding being worked out in an argument. Not to mention I've had people assign their own meaning to my spoken words just the same, and I had to go back and clarify what I meant. It's really no different.
This is true as well. Iím just going by my own experiences in that arguing over text is a bad way to do things. However, if it works for you and your SO, then thatís fantastic, and Iíd say to keep doing it. I have much better luck waiting until weíre in-person, or I pick up the phone.
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post #96 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 05:37 PM
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[QUOTE=TheDudeLebowski;19933155]
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Originally Posted by Tilted 1 View Post
The silent one, or the one being stonewalled?
I lean to the "aggressor" is the more offensive of the two. Not knowing when to stop and only has his/her method to be the fulfilled or desire to be accomplished. Self serving and angry is the recipe for disaster.

If your not the object of your lovers heart, then your just an object.
If you think the grass is greener on the otherside it's not, what you see are the weeds.
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post #97 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 05:53 PM
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

[quote=Tilted 1;19933399]
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Originally Posted by TheDudeLebowski View Post

I lean to the "aggressor" is the more offensive of the two. Not knowing when to stop and only has his/her method to be the fulfilled or desire to be accomplished. Self serving and angry is the recipe for disaster.
I tend to agree. Again, the self described "strong" people are generally just jerks most of the time. Strength comes in many forms. Being loud, angry, and argumentative isn't one of them, and only these types of people describe it as being strong. Its kind of like how people who call themselves cool are usually anything but cool.

If my devils are to leave me, I'm afraid my angels will take flight as well.
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post #98 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

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Originally Posted by Tilted 1 View Post
. He doesn't criticize me, mainly because I would honestly tell him to F off. I grew up in a house with strong women, and I am surrounded by them at work. It's not funny how such a seemingly innocent thing like silence can.

^This... Ok could it be the reason for the stonewalling from your SO?
Just wondering if you had read the entire conversation. An earlier post explained that this would have been used in the presence of a soul-crushing, full on critical assault. Something which my H doesn't do
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post #99 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

[quote=TheDudeLebowski;19933403]
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Originally Posted by Tilted 1 View Post

I tend to agree. Again, the self described "strong" people are generally just jerks most of the time. Strength comes in many forms. Being loud, angry, and argumentative isn't one of them, and only these types of people describe it as being strong. Its kind of like how people who call themselves cool are usually anything but cool.
I read something last week that described my situation to a T.
When a partner goes silent, it creates a flight or fight reaction in the person being stonewalled. This can often escalate the situation as the person's fear at being shut out turns to terror..and then anger. The person being stonewalled will react emotionally...tears, anger and will project increasing emotion into the situation in an effort to get a reaction, any reaction from the offender.
Being shut out emotionally is a painfully lonely thing.

I always like to try to understand where people are coming from, walk in their shoes as it were. I hope that a little research will help people to understand that:
1. sometimes online we can't always explain fully the situation we are in, or use exactly the right words
2. when in doubt, give people the benefit of that doubt and try to be helpful
3. cherry picking comments and snap judgments are unhelpful
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post #100 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 08:27 PM
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

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Originally Posted by aquarius1 View Post

I read something last week that described my situation to a T.
When a partner goes silent, it creates a flight or fight reaction in the person being stonewalled. This can often escalate the situation as the person's fear at being shut out turns to terror..and then anger. The person being stonewalled will react emotionally...tears, anger and will project increasing emotion into the situation in an effort to get a reaction, any reaction from the offender.
Being shut out emotionally is a painfully lonely thing.

I always like to try to understand where people are coming from, walk in their shoes as it were. I hope that a little research will help people to understand that:
1. sometimes online we can't always explain fully the situation we are in, or use exactly the right words
2. when in doubt, give people the benefit of that doubt and try to be helpful
3. cherry picking comments and snap judgments are unhelpful
I apologize, this thread sort of got derailed into a general discussion which is what I've been talking about in my last few posts, not really about your situation in particular. The "strong" comment I keep harping on because I know too many of these people and they are all complete jerks. They are anything but strong people.

As said in the general discussion, I think your husband needs to be man enough to tell you "I need some time to think about this" but he needs to understand that he has to talk at some point.

I would work from that angle. Approach him with this subject when you are both in good spirits. Just a discussion, not a fight. Tell him how it makes you feel. Then tell him you understand some people need time and even though it goes against how you operate, you will respect the way he goes about handling a situation. However, and this is a big however, HE needs to be the one to come back within 24 hours and give his thoughts, tell his apologies, whatever needs to be discussed, you expect him to initiate the conversation once he's gathered his thoughts. This is where HIS compromise comes in.

Work at it from the angle that you are extending an olive branch and coming to a level of compromise for him first. Then lay out what you expect in return. What his compromise in this communication mess looks like and find an acceptable one from both of you. Then at the end, cover that this new situation isn't set in stone right off the bat. It can be fluid until you find something that works well enough for both of you but you expect from yourself and from him to try something different because it isn't working and you're becoming apathetic as a result of his silence.

Listen to Tool - Schism.

"I know the pieces fit
'Cause I watched them fall away
Mildewed and smouldering
Fundamental differing
Pure intention juxtaposed
Will set two lovers' souls in motion
Disintegrating as it goes
Testing our communication

The light that fueled our fire then
Has burned a hole between us so
We cannot seem to reach an end
Crippling our communication

I know the pieces fit
'Cause I watched them tumble down
No fault, none to blame
It doesn't mean I don't desire
To point the finger, blame the other
Watch the temple topple over
To bring the pieces back together
Rediscover communication

The poetry
That comes from the squaring off between
And the circling is worth it
Finding beauty in the dissonance

There was a time that the pieces fit
But I watched them fall away
Mildewed and smouldering
Strangled by our coveting
I've done the math enough to know
The dangers of our second guessing
Doomed to crumble unless we grow
And strengthen our communication

Cold silence has... a tendency to
Atrophy any... sense of compassion
Between supposed brothers
Between supposed lovers
"

Repeat that last bit to him. Make him understand.


If my devils are to leave me, I'm afraid my angels will take flight as well.
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post #101 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

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Originally Posted by TheDudeLebowski View Post
I apologize, this thread sort of got derailed into a general discussion which is what I've been talking about in my last few posts, not really about your situation in particular. The "strong" comment I keep harping on because I know too many of these people and they are all complete jerks. They are anything but strong people.

As said in the general discussion, I think your husband needs to be man enough to tell you "I need some time to think about this" but he needs to understand that he has to talk at some point.

I would work from that angle. Approach him with this subject when you are both in good spirits. Just a discussion, not a fight. Tell him how it makes you feel. Then tell him you understand some people need time and even though it goes against how you operate, you will respect the way he goes about handling a situation. However, and this is a big however, HE needs to be the one to come back within 24 hours and give his thoughts, tell his apologies, whatever needs to be discussed, you expect him to initiate the conversation once he's gathered his thoughts. This is where HIS compromise comes in.

Work at it from the angle that you are extending an olive branch and coming to a level of compromise for him first. Then lay out what you expect in return. What his compromise in this communication mess looks like and find an acceptable one from both of you. Then at the end, cover that this new situation isn't set in stone right off the bat. It can be fluid until you find something that works well enough for both of you but you expect from yourself and from him to try something different because it isn't working and you're becoming apathetic as a result of his silence.

Listen to Tool - Schism.

"I know the pieces fit
'Cause I watched them fall away
Mildewed and smouldering
Fundamental differing
Pure intention juxtaposed
Will set two lovers' souls in motion
Disintegrating as it goes
Testing our communication

The light that fueled our fire then
Has burned a hole between us so
We cannot seem to reach an end
Crippling our communication

I know the pieces fit
'Cause I watched them tumble down
No fault, none to blame
It doesn't mean I don't desire
To point the finger, blame the other
Watch the temple topple over
To bring the pieces back together
Rediscover communication

The poetry
That comes from the squaring off between
And the circling is worth it
Finding beauty in the dissonance

There was a time that the pieces fit
But I watched them fall away
Mildewed and smouldering
Strangled by our coveting
I've done the math enough to know
The dangers of our second guessing
Doomed to crumble unless we grow
And strengthen our communication

Cold silence has... a tendency to
Atrophy any... sense of compassion
Between supposed brothers
Between supposed lovers
"

Repeat that last bit to him. Make him understand.

These are such helpful points. Thank you.

In MC he was advised to come back around, but I think he fails to understand why itís important. I guess he figures if he waits long enough the problem will evaporate.

There are some things here that I have needed to learn. Instead of letting MC dictate that my H should learn to communicate like me, we should both have been taught to respect each otherís style but keep each other informed as you suggested.

Another majorly important thing I learned was that my H really needs me to meet his need for physical connection, just as I need emotional connection. Nobody ever told me this in MC.

Iíve learned HERE on TAM about the profound effect that a lack of physical connection has especially on the male of the species. People here talk about sexless marriages, lack of sex. What I see now after reading it is that people are starving for intimacy and connection. For many that is expressed physically. Just because that isnít my language doesnít mean itís not important.

Thanks for providing me with a more detailed explanation of what was inside your thinking.
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post #102 of 106 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius1 View Post
1. sometimes online we can't always explain fully the situation we are in, or use exactly the right words

3. cherry picking comments and snap judgments are unhelpful

It was not my intent to do the above aquarius, l have read the entire post and I do agree to your #1 remark and do not intend to do #3 but only to help you with what you have written for all of us to see and give their take and advise to hopefully shed some light from what you do share.

Tilted

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If you think the grass is greener on the otherside it's not, what you see are the weeds.
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post #103 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 05:14 PM
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

It will be very crucial for you to know if there is anything he is facing emotionally that that is affecting him which he thinks there's no need to disturb you with it since originally that's not how he behaves when you guys newly met.

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post #104 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 11:21 AM
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

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Originally Posted by StillSearching View Post
Some people Grey Rock others......but they have a reason to do so.
Yeah, I think if one is being verbally assaulted into submission, shutting up and playing the silent game is one way to defend yourself without engaging the other in the mud, or escalating the fight.

But of course, to abusive people, defending one's self by staying silent is "Stonewalling."

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigBesuden View Post
My wife does this sometimes. I just do it back to her. Cuz thatís how I roll.
I think it very much depends on who is doing it and why. I wrote about the problems in my own marriage here; I didn't mention it in the thread, but after some of our more heated fights, my wife would frequently accuse me of "stonewalling" her, and saying it made her feel vulnerable and scared.

Of course, I'd only go silent after reasonable attempts to discuss something failed, and she was changing her story, screaming at me to "stop yelling at me" (!!!), etc. and the only thing I could think to do next, verbal communications having failed, was to either pick her up and throw her through a window, or withdraw from the "conversation."

Typical example: we're planning a trip for my cousin's wedding. Wife knows this. Wife has agreed to it.
Me: my mom said they would be here on these dates, flight arriving at these times, and suggested we go here for these other dates, or come XYZ day and visit other relatives. (basic trip planning information.)

Wife: (suddenly enraged, pupils dilated, eyes wide) claims I'm "working behind her back" and "keeping secrets" and my mom will never "control" her, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Me: No, I'm not saying I committed to anything, but just giving you the dates, I know we need to discuss and plan ourselves.

Wife: Interrupts, screams something incoherent about abuse, storms off and slams door.

Me: *Thinking to myself having endured this behavior for years, and dreading planning this trip in the first place*... Communication has failed. I'm done talking. All I can expect is 4-7 days of cold treatment, and a "discussion" in which I'm blamed for her hostile reaction, and if I don't tread carefully and accept responsibility, the same fight will happen all over again.

- No communication for the next 48 hours in which I keep to myself -

Wife: You're stonewalling me, and it's abusive.
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post #105 of 106 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Why Do People Stonewall?

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Originally Posted by TomNebraska View Post
Yeah, I think if one is being verbally assaulted into submission, shutting up and playing the silent game is one way to defend yourself without engaging the other in the mud, or escalating the fight.

But of course, to abusive people, defending one's self by staying silent is "Stonewalling."



I think it very much depends on who is doing it and why. I wrote about the problems in my own marriage here; I didn't mention it in the thread, but after some of our more heated fights, my wife would frequently accuse me of "stonewalling" her, and saying it made her feel vulnerable and scared.

Of course, I'd only go silent after reasonable attempts to discuss something failed, and she was changing her story, screaming at me to "stop yelling at me" (!!!), etc. and the only thing I could think to do next, verbal communications having failed, was to either pick her up and throw her through a window, or withdraw from the "conversation."

Typical example: we're planning a trip for my cousin's wedding. Wife knows this. Wife has agreed to it.
Me: my mom said they would be here on these dates, flight arriving at these times, and suggested we go here for these other dates, or come XYZ day and visit other relatives. (basic trip planning information.)

Wife: (suddenly enraged, pupils dilated, eyes wide) claims I'm "working behind her back" and "keeping secrets" and my mom will never "control" her, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Me: No, I'm not saying I committed to anything, but just giving you the dates, I know we need to discuss and plan ourselves.

Wife: Interrupts, screams something incoherent about abuse, storms off and slams door.

Me: *Thinking to myself having endured this behavior for years, and dreading planning this trip in the first place*... Communication has failed. I'm done talking. All I can expect is 4-7 days of cold treatment, and a "discussion" in which I'm blamed for her hostile reaction, and if I don't tread carefully and accept responsibility, the same fight will happen all over again.

- No communication for the next 48 hours in which I keep to myself -

Wife: You're stonewalling me, and it's abusive.
Yea, that's not the kind of situation that I was talking about.

I will say this however, in your case it is YOU that's being abused and your wife is in the WRONG. THat's just bullsh*t and no wonder you shut down
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