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post #181 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 06:19 PM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

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This indicates that the person may be responsible and stable. It does not indicate that the person will become wealthy, powerful or have status. The potential may be there; but, there is no guarantee as there would be if the person were already wealthy, powerful or have status. There is a difference.
Well, I'm not sure if women set the standard at "likely to be wealthy" - comfortable for sure, and of course higher (upper-middle class or whatever you call it) would be nice.

That being said, nothing is guaranteed. But having a college degree (especially a graduate / professional degree) is one of the best indicators of future earning potential. It goes beyond responsible and stable to being smart and ambitious enough to get one, attributes that translate well to the workplace. Also, it has other lifestyle implications. If you have a degree you're more likely to be home nights / weekends / holidays and be present with the family, for instance.

Having a home (which I interpret to mean owning as opposed to living on your own) is a huge deal, especially in places where values are high and even well-paid professionals can't manage to get over the hump of buying one. It also goes to finances and lifestyle, not just stability.

Definitely makes sense that having a degree and a home are big deals, even with future uncertainly.

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post #182 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 06:24 PM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

mathematically speaking . . . . . 49% of men are below average. Everything else is an illusion.
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post #183 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 07:06 PM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

Or it just could be women have been conditioned to believe that they are entitled to a high (or very high) quality man regardless of what they themselves bring to the table. AKA the "Princess Syndrome".

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I think I phrased myself badly.

Many men (my impression) think women overrate their looks. If a woman is of average attractiveness, I think she generally knows it. But, with caveats. Her impression of herself takes a few years to develop and is out of date (beautiful 21 year old women might desperately try to impress you, thrity year old women generally know better). Also, she will see an average man as below average.

This leads to average women often wondering where the decent men are and average men struggling to get a woman. The difference in these complaints is key, men have little problems finding a woman they find a potentially suitable partner, women often do.

This suited in in CA, as there were plenty of women who would not have thought of themselves as having high standards being left unable to find a decent man.



Personally, I think there are very good reasons for women to have this skew in their perceptions. It is almost certainly far safer. But, it does mean they are in a position of finding the opposite sex less attractive than they would otherwise, and a situation where it is very easy for a minority to men to choose a partner and difficult for most men to find one happy to be with them.

Obviously, I am talking about human relationships like commodities. These are huge generalisations.
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post #184 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 07:52 PM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

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mathematically speaking . . . . . 49% of men are below average. Everything else is an illusion.
Precisely. And that women find 80% of guys to be below average (comes from an OkCupid survey) means either they don't know what is average (unlikely with all the media and data out there) or "below average" really means "not someone I can see spending my time with".

And the survey data shows women wind up reaching out to most of that 80% anyways. That means women perceive themselves as "settling" for the perceived poor selection of men out there, setting the stage for long-term dissatisfaction. Can you be happy with a guy you feel never really was at your level (unless your view on the importance of looks changes, or you become self-aware enough to realize that maybe you weren't such a great catch yourself)?

Seems like the only solution is to focus not so much on how a guy looks or what he has / is likely to have, and more on how he treats you, responsibility / maturity, and other attributes he can control.
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post #185 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 08:02 PM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

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I think you are giving men too much of a break. The ok Cupid study had two specific findings: 1) women have higher standards for physical beauty than men and 2) the vast majority of men are interested in only the most beautiful women. In short, average men are just as guilty as average women for any lack of success they may experience when dating.
Hmmm, not quite. That survey showed that men's ratings on the attractiveness of women is a bell curve; 50% are below average and 50% are above. So while men might initially hit on the best looking women, I'd reason that eventually they will set their sights more realistically and be happy with their choices. Or as someone else put it earlier, men have fewer problems finding someone who's an acceptable partner.

OTOH, thinking most men are below average yet chasing them anyways sets a lady up for long-term disappointment.
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post #186 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 08:18 PM
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I think you are giving men too much of a break. The ok Cupid study had two specific findings: 1) women have higher standards for physical beauty than men and 2) the vast majority of men are interested in only the most beautiful women. In short, average men are just as guilty as average women for any lack of success they may experience when dating.
Hmmm, not quite. That survey showed that men's ratings on the attractiveness of women is a bell curve; 50% are below average and 50% are above. So while men might initially hit on the best looking women, I'd reason that eventually they will set their sights more realistically and be happy with their choices. Or as someone else put it earlier, men have fewer problems finding someone who's an acceptable partner.

OTOH, thinking most men are below average yet chasing them anyways sets a lady up for long-term disappointment.

No, the study specifically found that although the men surveyed found women's attractiveness along the bell curve, they predominantly focused their messages to only the top 25-30% of women.

They didn't study whether men eventually gave up chasing the top women and "settled" for the less attractive women nor did they study whether these guys who settled were happy having done so. That's all supposition.

In my experience, being back in the dating world, just as many men as women have issues finding an acceptable partner. Few want to settle and everyone feels they are entitled to the best. It's a universal issue not specific to men or women.
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post #187 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 08:26 PM
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mathematically speaking . . . . . 49% of men are below average. Everything else is an illusion.
Precisely. And that women find 80% of guys to be below average (comes from an OkCupid survey) means either they don't know what is average (unlikely with all the media and data out there) or "below average" really means "not someone I can see spending my time with".

And the survey data shows women wind up reaching out to most of that 80% anyways. That means women perceive themselves as "settling" for the perceived poor selection of men out there, setting the stage for long-term dissatisfaction. Can you be happy with a guy you feel never really was at your level (unless your view on the importance of looks changes, or you become self-aware enough to realize that maybe you weren't such a great catch yourself)?

Seems like the only solution is to focus not so much on how a guy looks or what he has / is likely to have, and more on how he treats you, responsibility / maturity, and other attributes he can control.
The ok Cupid study was based solely using pictures to gauge attractiveness. Not their written profile. Not any real time interactions. Men are notorious for taking horrible, unflattering pictures. Flip through some online dating profiles and you'll understand what I mean. I have to agree that 75% of the photos I see on dating profiles are below average however that doesn't translate to the real world. I'm sure if there was a study done where women gauged attractiveness based on real world interactions, you'd find a bell curve too.

I think if we're going to tell women to "focus not so much on how a guy looks or what he has / is likely to have, and more on how he treats you, responsibility / maturity, and other attributes he can control", then we probably need to be telling guys to focus not so much on a woman's physical appearance but on how she treats you, her responsibility/ maturity, and other attributes she can control.
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post #188 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-04-2019, 09:50 PM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

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I think if we're going to tell women to "focus not so much on how a guy looks or what he has / is likely to have, and more on how he treats you, responsibility / maturity, and other attributes he can control", then we probably need to be telling guys to focus not so much on a woman's physical appearance but on how she treats you, her responsibility/ maturity, and other attributes she can control.
Completely agree that men would do well to follow these guidelines too.
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post #189 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 02:19 AM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

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Or it just could be women have been conditioned to believe that they are entitled to a high (or very high) quality man regardless of what they themselves bring to the table. AKA the "Princess Syndrome".
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO View Post
Precisely. And that women find 80% of guys to be below average (comes from an OkCupid survey) means either they don't know what is average (unlikely with all the media and data out there) or "below average" really means "not someone I can see spending my time with".

And the survey data shows women wind up reaching out to most of that 80% anyways. That means women perceive themselves as "settling" for the perceived poor selection of men out there, setting the stage for long-term dissatisfaction. Can you be happy with a guy you feel never really was at your level (unless your view on the importance of looks changes, or you become self-aware enough to realize that maybe you weren't such a great catch yourself)?

Seems like the only solution is to focus not so much on how a guy looks or what he has / is likely to have, and more on how he treats you, responsibility / maturity, and other attributes he can control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lila View Post
I think you are giving men too much of a break. The ok Cupid study had two specific findings: 1) women have higher standards for physical beauty than men and 2) the vast majority of men are interested in only the most beautiful women. In short, average men are just as guilty as average women for any lack of success they may experience when dating.
So, I am being too easy on men and too easy on women!

Firstly, when I say average I am not saying "good enough". That is another matter.

In the perceptions study, which I only cite as it backs up my impressions, it does not assess who women think is "good enough", only how impressive they are relatively. It might be all the women thought all the men were suitable partners and most men out there are even better.

And, hte internet and apps are visual media. To complain that the opposite sex are not bonding meaningfully over a internet profile ignores the role and charm and an emotional bond IRL can form.

Last edited by Mr The Other; 08-05-2019 at 04:37 AM.
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post #190 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 02:23 AM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

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I'll be frank....when a woman says that 75% of men are below average, unless she is Jassica Alba or Charlize Theron, I roll my eyes.

I'd say......maybe 15% of the men I know are "below average," many are in the average curve, probably at least 30% are definitely above average, and only about 3% are the kind I want to roll my eyes and b-slap while laughing.
I would say roughly a third are below average. Roughly a third are aroud average, and roughly a third are above.

The Princess aspect only comes when only the best is good enough.

In CA, many women thought I was being very precious. But, then, I found partners and they did not.

I think there is a genuine skewing of perception. Were I given the option that all women would look as beautiful as Jessica Alba or Charlize Theron do to me know, I would take that option and live in a world of beautiful women. Then danger would be that I would not be fussy enough, all the women would be able to charm me.

If I perceived women as far less attractive than they objectively are, I would be far more immune to their charms. This would make my romantic life far worse, but save me from the hypothetical risk of death in pregnancy to someone not worth it.

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post #191 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 08:42 AM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

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Originally Posted by Blondilocks View Post
This indicates that the person may be responsible and stable. It does not indicate that the person will become wealthy, powerful or have status. The potential may be there; but, there is no guarantee as there would be if the person were already wealthy, powerful or have status. There is a difference.
No sh!! there's a difference.

Nothing was included that says "here's a guarantee that xx will be a captain of industry some day".

So what in the heck is the point of your post?

Is there something else you're trying to imply or bring up passive-aggressively?

What are you trying to say? Are you trying to cast negatives or shady aspersions on someone, anyone, any group??

Say what you're saying if there's a point somewhere.
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post #192 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Blondilocks View Post
This indicates that the person may be responsible and stable. It does not indicate that the person will become wealthy, powerful or have status. The potential may be there; but, there is no guarantee as there would be if the person were already wealthy, powerful or have status. There is a difference.
No sh!! there's a difference.

Nothing was included that says "here's a guarantee that xx will be a captain of industry some day".

So what in the heck is the point of your post?

Is there something else you're trying to imply or bring up passive-aggressively?

What are you trying to say? Are you trying to cast negatives or shady aspersions on someone, anyone, any group??

Say what you're saying if there's a point somewhere.
Following the posts in context, I took her post to mean that just because a woman inquires about whether a man has a job does not mean she is a gold digger or must have money and power. These are just basic questions to ascertain someone's motivation and responsibility in life. She was responding to a post that implied that when a woman asks if a man has a job she is somehow attracted to extreme wealth and power. Which of course is a ridiculous extreme. I would help a man would ask if a woman has a job as well. No one wants to marry a lazy bum who sits around the house playing sky rim all day lol
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post #193 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 09:35 AM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

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Following the posts in context, I took her post to mean that just because a woman inquires about whether a man has a job does not mean she is a gold digger or must have money and power. These are just basic questions to ascertain someone's motivation and responsibility in life.

She was responding to a post that implied that when a woman asks if a man has a job she is somehow attracted to extreme wealth and power. Which of course is a ridiculous extreme. I would help a man would ask if a woman has a job as well. No one wants to marry a lazy bum who sits around the house playing sky rim all day lol
Thanks.

Your first two sentences cleared it up for me.

If your first sentence was the crux of her intent then my apologies to @Blondilocks. I'm not sure it was her whole meaning but I'll go with it.

Maybe I'm just cranky this morning.
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post #194 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 10:02 AM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

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Thanks.

Your first two sentences cleared it up for me.

If your first sentence was the crux of her intent then my apologies to @Blondilocks. I'm not sure it was her whole meaning but I'll go with it.

Maybe I'm just cranky this morning.
Maybe it's PMS......

(runs and hides while laughing and dodging lightning)
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post #195 of 262 (permalink) Old 08-05-2019, 10:56 AM
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Re: Are There Not Enough Eligible Christian Men?

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Maybe it's PMS......

(runs and hides while laughing and dodging lightning)
Ok, now that's funny.

But two thoughts got away from me at first. Somewhere, there are two burnt spots on the globe from the first couple microseconds reaction.

🙄 😉😉
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