Long term consequences of lies/omissions & RJ - Page 15 - Talk About Marriage
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post #211 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Long term consequences of lies/omissions & RJ

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Originally Posted by Livvie View Post
At a certain point you need to think of yourself, too. And what being treated-- not well-- does to you. Don't get so caught up in the possible fantasy of "what made her this way and how it's going to absolutely get fixed" that you harm yourself...
Yes! And this whole thing started with ME going to IC. She had pretty much stopped going to her shrink and therapist, thinking she didn't need to. The IC got the MC thing going and encouraged me to encourage her to get back to her IC and shrink.

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Originally Posted by In Absentia View Post
I think @Casual Observer is entitled to try whatever he can to save his marriage. He is not happy with the status quo and has stated that he would divorce his wife if these issues are not solved. I understand that, because I've done just that. The only difference is that my wife never agreed to IC (and subsequent CBT therapy) and I never "forced" her to go. Well, I threatened divorce at some point and she agreed to it, because she didn't want to face her ghosts. So, in a way, the OP is progressing and there is hope. Personally, I think he's being selfish (sorry!), because this is mainly about him and wanting to feel better, being accepted and loved. These are all valid and understandable feelings, but it takes two to tango and I think that, at the end of the day, the OP will be highly disappointed with the outcome.
Yes, trying to make things better for myself is definitely a selfish act. I do think about that. Often. But the alternative is, for her, worse. We've discussed this. Leave everything alone, and just go through the motions, marriage on the momentum train. But the thing is, I never before considered getting off that train. She never thought I'd consider that. She wants to stay on the train with me, and she's willing to exchange some very hard work on her part (and that's really what it comes down to... work... and maybe even more than that, doing something that wasn't your idea) to keep the train on its tracks and running too fast for me to be able to get off. I don't really know if that's a good metaphor or not?

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Originally Posted by Blondilocks View Post
You feeling like you were deceived and gypped of a passionate marriage is understandable. Wanting to help your wife confront her demons is compassionate.

What is curious is why you would marry a woman who you knew had lost her passion for you two years prior to marriage. Chalking it up to her feeling guilt due to her religion isn't flying.

You checked all the boxes for her (except for sex) - is it fair to say that she checked all the boxes for you (except for sex)? Thinking that a marriage ceremony would suddenly turn on the passion is naive and maintaining that stance is disingenuous, I believe.

Do you feel any responsibility for the state of your marriage and where you find yourself, now? You don't need anyone's approval to declare that this marriage doesn't meet your needs and exit. What would be beneficial to you would be to accept that this isn't all on your wife and this isn't all due to her withholding info 40 plus years ago.

I sincerely hope you and your wife can save your marriage and make it better than it has ever been. Good luck.
Yes, I feel some responsibility because this flip did happen two years before we got married. I managed to rationalize that it was her religious beliefs and everything would change once married. People are not so smart when they're 21 or 22 or 23. I also came to believe through her.

I'm trying to be open and not defend my position, but I do feel it necessary to point out that "it" wasn't just 40 plus years ago. Conversations about this continued throughout the marriage, and she pretty much guaranteed that when she had the breakdown three years into the marriage, hysterically crying and talking about something she did before she met me that she hadn't told me about and would someday but she couldn't then. How much more can you do to create an indelible memory that reinforces something? If she hadn't done that, it likely would have faded away. But she did, so it would come up every few years or so. Anything you want to talk about? No, not ready for that conversation yet. After 15 years or so she said she didn't recall the breakdown or the memory.

And it's on me for putting up with a good 12 years of extraordinarily infrequent (for me) intimacy. 2-3 times per month maybe? And then it became a "duty" type of thing, again, something I should have dealt with. We should have had counseling. That would NOT work because she didn't want to talk with ANYONE about such private matters. I decided not to rock the boat. My fault.

But that was then, this is now. She's exploring her early memories and finding some other interesting things that really disturbed her. One about her Dad that might explain a lot of the nastiness she exhibits towards him the past few decades. The IC/MC and shrink can use such things as "input" for a process to help her get better. It almost doesn't matter what the input is. That's the strange thing I'm learning. It's just accepting that something happened that screwed you up and you can change how you feel about it and get better. I think?

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post #212 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 03:50 PM
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Re: Long term consequences of lies/omissions & RJ

@Casual Observer,

You know, I'm not sure what to make of the posts from @farsidejunky, @Faithful Wife, and @Personal. I think I will leave it to them to make the point(s) they are trying to make.

What I recognize is two things happening simultaneously...and one does not exclude the other:

1) Your wife had a trauma of some sort 40+ years ago. Since that time, she has blocked all memory of it and she numbed herself emotionally. Speaking as a survivor of trauma myself, I know the difference between the "black and white" emotional numbness prior to dealing with the trauma--and the "living color" of emotional awareness after dealing with the trauma. I think, in essence, your hope is that if she deals with the trauma now, with a safe counselor at a safe time in her life, that her ability to be emotionally available will be improved.

2) At the same time, all these hopes and dreams you have for your wife to face her trauma and become emotionally available are all rooted in YOU and your reasons. That is to say, this all started with YOU being unsatisfied, and YOU being uncomfortable, and YOU wanting more and YOU ... You ... you. Get it? It wasn't her saying to herself "Hey you know what? I am uncomfortable being the woman I am"[and note to self, that is how my own personal transformation started. I did not like who I was and wanted to be different--thus my motivation was internal and self-propelling.] Her "motivation" (if you will) is probably partially fear ... fear of losing you, fear of losing her lifestyle, fear of losing security, fear of getting older alone--you name it. But the idea is that the catalyst of all this change is YOU wanting to change HER.

Now, I'm not going to even speak to HER. I believe she is in the competent hands of a good IC, a good MC, and a good psychologist, and she may or may not have her own motivations for doing what she's doing. She's not here. So let's not even look at her side of the street right now.

You ARE here. So yeah--let's do look at you. Do you have ulterior motives? Are you trying to control her or your relationship? Are you pushing and insisting that she do things your way or the highway? These are reasonable and valuable questions to ask yourself. Part of HER growth will definitely be YOU growing and changing too, because if she does have an emotional awakening and become emotionally and mentally healthy, she will require an equally emotionally healthy PARTNER.

Thus, rather than focusing on her, and what she needs to do, and where she needs to grow (note to self...see how I said "needs" there a couple times? That's an indication of control. It's like "should." Those are words that are like hints that you are putting your rules onto someone else) how about if we use this space for YOU and how You are doing and ways that You are growing to be a better person and partner?

In conclusion, I do understand that you two are on a schedule for intimacy and that the schedule is working for you both (for the most part). I also understand that you do not desire to "rock the boat" since it is going well right now. Yet when I suggested that you ask her for what you need, I was not suggesting that you say "Hey I'd like sex please" after a trip, nor that you change up your schedule and thus throw a monkey wrench into a good thing. Rather, what I was suggesting was that you be emotionally open with her. If you came home and you were feeling vulnerable and thinking "I could use a little support and reassurance", it's easy to do one of two things: HINT and hope she catches the hint, and when she doesn't, get all pouty about it... or talk, maybe even state or complain, and then give her no idea how to make it better. Neither way will feel like a "win" for her and you will still feel crummy. So instead of hinting or giving her no solution, I recommend a method to folks "When you... I think...I feel... So..." It goes like this:

"When you..." = identify the behavior that starts or ignites the thoughts and feelings in you. This is not a blame time ("When you act like an idiot" or "When you are all cold and emotionless" would be blaming) but rather IDENTIFYING the events that occur that start this situation. A good example from this specific instance might be "When I am away on a business trip and I come home..." See how that is just identifying when this situation occurs?

"I think..." = say right out loud the thoughts that run through your head. Now, if you are anything like me, my thoughts can be fairly unfiltered. I would not recommend using expletives (even if your thoughts include them...and mine do!) nor using You Statements, but rather this is an opportunity to share what you honestly think. I try to be rawly honest and open, but at the same time kind. Make sense? An example from this specific instance might be "...I think about whether I'll come home to a safe haven or a fight..."

"I feel..." = sharing your feelings. Now I happen to be a Myers Briggs Feeler, so for me, finding feeling words is super easy and I am very aware of my feelings. For some, they may FEEL...but finding the word for that feeling is hard. So again, don't blame or try to make the other person responsible for your feelings...just share as honestly as you can. Again, I filter only for some degree of kindness whilst making sure I'm being transparent and letting my real feelings be known. An example from this specific instance might be "...I feel afraid of what might face me and I feel like I could use some reassurance that we are heading in the right direction and I'm okay..."

"So..." = here is where you make a request about what the other person could do about your thoughts and feelings. Here's the thing--so many times we'll say what we think or feel and just leave the other person hanging with no clue what we need or what would make it better! It's like all we want to do is complain and give them no chance to figure us out or fix it! And to be honest, for me I can identify my thoughts and feelings pretty well...fairly easily...but the request is always harder because sometimes I feel the swirl of the thoughts and feelings and have no clue MYSELF what would make it better! So having to think about it and figure out "XYZ would be helpful" actually is helpful, and no matter who is using this technique it kind of gives that person a chance to think "Well...what do I want exactly? What would make a difference? Is that realistic?" etc. Anyway, an example from this specific instance might be something like: "...So I'd like to ask if you'd be willing to cuddle for a bit on the couch, tell me some of the ways we're heading in a good direction with all this counseling, and maybe say right out loud that we are okay and offer some reassuring support. Would you be willing to do that?"

Put it all together:

"When I am away on a business trip and I come home...I think about whether I'll come home to a safe haven or a fight...I feel afraid of what might face me and I feel like I could use some reassurance that we are heading in the right direction and I'm okay...So I'd like to ask if you'd be willing to cuddle for a bit on the couch, tell me some of the ways we're heading in a good direction with all this counseling, and maybe say right out loud that we are okay and offer some reassuring support. Would you be willing to do that?"

Now the rule about the request is just that--it is a REQUEST and not a demand. A demand means that the person can't say "no"...a request means that they are free to say "no" with no punishment. BUT ... if the person says "no" then they come back with what they ARE willing to do. For example, if she was afraid the cuddling on the couch would be pushed for sex, she could say "I am really not comfortable cuddling because I'm afraid you'll push for sex. But I am willing to sit right beside you, hold hands, and stroke your arm. Would that work?"

The reason I recommend that you ask for what you need is that a) if you don't you are hiding your True Self from your spouse, b) if you don't, she may or may not have any idea that you need "that", c) if she doesn't have a clue, she may unwittingly not give you what you need when she has good intent in her heart, d) it is a good way for her to begin to learn YOU if you share your thoughts, feelings, and REQUESTS. I state again, be sure they are REQUESTS to which she is free to say "no" without reprisal...and not demands. Requests are respectful...demands are controlling.


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Last edited by Affaircare; 10-24-2019 at 03:57 PM.
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post #213 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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@Casual Observer, ...
Put it all together:

"When I am away on a business trip and I come home...I think about whether I'll come home to a safe haven or a fight...I feel afraid of what might face me and I feel like I could use some reassurance that we are heading in the right direction and I'm okay...So I'd like to ask if you'd be willing to cuddle for a bit on the couch, tell me some of the ways we're heading in a good direction with all this counseling, and maybe say right out loud that we are okay and offer some reassuring support. Would you be willing to do that?"

Now the rule about the request is just that--it is a REQUEST and not a demand. A demand means that the person can't say "no"...a request means that they are free to say "no" with no punishment. BUT ... if the person says "no" then they come back with what they ARE willing to do. For example, if she was afraid the cuddling on the couch would be pushed for sex, she could say "I am really not comfortable cuddling because I'm afraid you'll push for sex. But I am willing to sit right beside you, hold hands, and stroke your arm. Would that work?"

The reason I recommend that you ask for what you need is that a) if you don't you are hiding your True Self from your spouse, b) if you don't, she may or may not have any idea that you need "that", c) if she doesn't have a clue, she may unwittingly not give you what you need when she has good intent in her heart, d) it is a good way for her to begin to learn YOU if you share your thoughts, feelings, and REQUESTS. I state again, be sure they are REQUESTS to which she is free to say "no" without reprisal...and not demands. Requests are respectful...demands are controlling.
Returning to the trip, I was afraid to make the request. There was certainly not a demand. There have been virtually zero demands, except that we cannot ignore the elephant in the room. If I am telling her that I am unhappy enough to leave if things stay as they are, that is not exactly a "request." We can pretend all we want, but no matter how you rephrase it, the person receiving that information is likely to see it as a demand. I just think it's disingenuous to suggest that "If x then y, otherwise z" is anything other than a demand.

For me, the key is to have a credible path that makes both choices available (a better word might be "reasonable") to the other person. It would be totally unfair to expect the other person to change something that is clearly not within their capability. It would not be unfair, I think, to propose a change that the other person would need to put some effort into.

Getting back to coming home from the biz trip, another elephant in the room is my fear of rejection. Nobody else has brought that up, but it's a real thing. That's caused some bad choices on my part, and is why I'm responsible for some of the issues that have come up. I've never meant to suggest it's all her.

The sharing thoughts stuff is really tough, due to the hugely differing notions of privacy. That *is* changing! She actually asked if I'd like to go to her next physical therapy appointment with her. It doesn't sound like a big deal, but it is. I've been shut out of all of her oncology appointments so far. In the future, I don't think that will be the case. This is such a significant milestone I'm actually close to tears typing this. I didn't give much thought about it until just now. She mentioned this (the upcoming appointment) yesterday. This sounds so corny. That's ok. If someone else has a laugh at my expense, what did it really cost me?

Thanks-
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post #214 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-24-2019, 04:58 PM
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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Returning to the trip, I was afraid to make the request. There was certainly not a demand. There have been virtually zero demands, except that we cannot ignore the elephant in the room. If I am telling her that I am unhappy enough to leave if things stay as they are, that is not exactly a "request." We can pretend all we want, but no matter how you rephrase it, the person receiving that information is likely to see it as a demand. I just think it's disingenuous to suggest that "If x then y, otherwise z" is anything other than a demand.
Well let me challenge you a little bit. You are not DEMANDING that she change. You are statiing where you are: "If things stay the same, I will leave." She has the choice to change or stay the same. The consequence of staying the same is that she loses you/the benefit is she doesn't have to face something she is afraid of. The consequence of changing is that it's scary and hard work/the benefit is she doesn't have to change her lifestyle and she gets to keep you.

See, a demand is no option to say "no." She has the choice to say "no" to the elephant in the room. The result of her no would be a divorce, but that option to say "no" is still there.

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For me, the key is to have a credible path that makes both choices available (a better word might be "reasonable") to the other person. It would be totally unfair to expect the other person to change something that is clearly not within their capability. It would not be unfair, I think, to propose a change that the other person would need to put some effort into.
Again, I somewhat challenge this point of view. What I think is reasonable for you may be far from reasonable in your mind. I don't get to determine what is and is not reasonable, and neither do you. I think it is much more authentic and transparent to say "Here's where I am. Here's what I need. I'd like to ask for ___. Are you willing?" Now, when you decide what to ask for, you can take into consideration what you think their capability may be. I mean, I'm not going to ask EB to be tall! That would be unfair! But what I might ask for is a stool...because neither one of us, being shorties, can reach that high thing. You get the drift, right? Sure, ask for what is within their ability, but the point of the exercise is for YOU to be open and transparent...let them see the True You. It should be authentic, and not an image of what you think they want to see.

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Getting back to coming home from the biz trip, another elephant in the room is my fear of rejection. Nobody else has brought that up, but it's a real thing. That's caused some bad choices on my part, and is why I'm responsible for some of the issues that have come up. I've never meant to suggest it's all her.
Okay fear of rejection is a biggie for me as well, so I totally get ya. Hey, my own parents beat me up, so my loveability is a constant struggle for me. And yet, a) I know it is MY issue, not anyone else's and b) I can be honest about it if I'm having a wobble. It's okay to be a human being that couldn't bear the weight of the world in that moment. So I get it--you're afraid that if you do ask, she'll say "no" or she'll outright reject you. But IN REAL LIFE, you do think X and you do feel Y...and part of being intimate with your partner is not only sharing physically, but also emotionally and mentally WHO YOU TRULY ARE.

I say start with sharing the technique and giving a test run to an easy "I think...I feel...So I'd like to ask..." so she gets the hang of it and you get one "non-rejection" under your belt. Go for a one-minute hug and nothing more. That's a good start!

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The sharing thoughts stuff is really tough, due to the hugely differing notions of privacy. That *is* changing! She actually asked if I'd like to go to her next physical therapy appointment with her. It doesn't sound like a big deal, but it is. I've been shut out of all of her oncology appointments so far. In the future, I don't think that will be the case. This is such a significant milestone I'm actually close to tears typing this. I didn't give much thought about it until just now. She mentioned this (the upcoming appointment) yesterday. This sounds so corny. That's ok. If someone else has a laugh at my expense, what did it really cost me?

Thanks-
It is GIGANTIC that she invited you and is including you in her appointments. That is her actively opening herself to some vulnerability. A) Do not loose sight of how HUGE a gift that is. She let you IN! B) She gave a try to you and is trusting you to be kind and thoughtful of her in her medical things--reciprocate. Give it a try and trust her to be kind and thoughtful with what you need. Don't ask for a grand romantic gesture...just something simple but meaningful.


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post #215 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-25-2019, 08:35 AM
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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See, a demand is no option to say "no." She has the choice to say "no" to the elephant in the room. The result of her no would be a divorce, but that option to say "no" is still there.
Of course the option of saying no is still there, but like my wife used to say to me when I was threatening her with divorce... "you are blackmailing me into having sex with you"...
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post #216 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-26-2019, 03:02 PM
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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Of course the option of saying no is still there, but like my wife used to say to me when I was threatening her with divorce... "you are blackmailing me into having sex with you"...
This is a terrible thing to say to a partner who is expressing their need to their partner!! It sounds like a manipulation, and an attempt to redirect the focus of the conversation.

I hope things worked out for you...
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post #217 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-26-2019, 03:14 PM
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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....the point of the exercise is for YOU to be open and transparent...let them see the True You. It should be authentic, and not an image of what you think they want to see.

This whole post (and your other one!) is terrific and very important for me to read, but this one part is the crux of MY issues, and I didn't even realize it until I read this post -- I LIKE being the image of what my partner wants to see!!! I like having control of it, so I can be sure I will make him happy and he will love me and want me!

WOW -- I don't know if this helped CO or anyone else, but it's brought up something important for me, and I'm grateful to you for it!

Now to get the courage to want to disturb my comfort zone....I don't think I'm there yet!
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post #218 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-27-2019, 04:15 AM
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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I hope things worked out for you...
They are not working out at all... we separated not long ago, only to cancel it the other day because she is having a major depressive episode and I need her to be stable... I don't really care about myself right now.

She uses the blackmailing thing quite often... but then blaming others is part of her illness.
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post #219 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-27-2019, 09:59 AM
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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They are not working out at all... we separated not long ago, only to cancel it the other day because she is having a major depressive episode and I need her to be stable... I don't really care about myself right now.

She uses the blackmailing thing quite often... but then blaming others is part of her illness.
Well, at least you are making the effort to get her claws out of you...are you sure her "illness" isn't just Narcissistic Personality Disorder??

It's hard to disrupt the stability of your regular life, no matter how miserable you might be, so there's no shame in struggling with it - it's scary and uncertain, and feels "wrong", especially when you can't see the light at the end of that tunnel.
No matter what she (or anyone else) has made you feel, remember, you deserve to have YOUR needs met, and there's nothing wrong with HAVING those needs either! So just be as strong as you can be, and keep prying her claws out of you, one little step at a time, and you WILL get there.
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post #220 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-27-2019, 10:10 AM
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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Well, at least you are making the effort to get her claws out of you...are you sure her "illness" isn't just Narcissistic Personality Disorder??
She has "Pure O" OCD... intrusive thoughts she doesn't act on. Mainly catastrophic ones.

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So just be as strong as you can be, and keep prying her claws out of you, one little step at a time, and you WILL get there.
I'm doing that, but it's a painful and slow process, which will require some time. I'm trying to "condition her", so she doesn't see me as the "bad guy" and maybe she will accept my departure one day without having an episode...

But I don't want to threadjack CO's journey towards Nirvana (sorry! )... which is a bit like mine. I failed, but I hope he will succeed!

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post #221 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-28-2019, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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No matter what she (or anyone else) has made you feel, remember, you deserve to have YOUR needs met, and there's nothing wrong with HAVING those needs either!
I realize that your comment is regarding someone else, not me, yet it's still relevant. The issue with telling her that you have needs that deserve to be met is this: She may very well believe she's meeting those needs, as best she can, in her way. She may become very frustrated that you don't respect her efforts to try and meet those needs. She will accuse you of expecting perfection from her and being unwilling to compromise. She will cry her eyes out over how much she's done, how much she's changed, all for you.

Anyway, I just heard this happens. No personal experience. None at all. Just sayin'. :-)
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post #222 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 08:34 AM
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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I realize that your comment is regarding someone else, not me, yet it's still relevant. The issue with telling her that you have needs that deserve to be met is this: She may very well believe she's meeting those needs, as best she can, in her way. She may become very frustrated that you don't respect her efforts to try and meet those needs. She will accuse you of expecting perfection from her and being unwilling to compromise. She will cry her eyes out over how much she's done, how much she's changed, all for you.

Anyway, I just heard this happens. No personal experience. None at all. Just sayin'. :-)
UGH!!! WHERE are these women coming from...?!!!

In a partnership, this type of reaction is immature, utterly self-centered, and total manipulation. Not only is she unwilling to try and meet her partner's needs, she wants to PRETEND that she is actually trying -- this would hurt me deeply and infuriate me!!! I cannot imagine how love can stay alive in an environment like this.

She is trying to SHAME her partner into turning everything back around onto HER getting her needs met - her partner isn't even allowed to expect anything else I guess. THIS is Narcissism, I hate to say it. Maybe not a full-blown personality disorder (like my father has), but it's absolutely narcissistically manipulative, and WRONG. I grew-up with this stuff directed at me, and it was deeply damaging, even though I knew pretty early on that HE was the one with the problem. After nearly 20 years of No Contact with him, I STILL feel ashamed to ask for things I want or need in my relationships!

If I was with someone like this, I would sit-down and give them a Come To Jesus Moment - if I mean SO little to them that they would treat me this way, then I'd rather be alone.
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post #223 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 10:45 AM
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
I realize that your comment is regarding someone else, not me, yet it's still relevant. The issue with telling her that you have needs that deserve to be met is this: She may very well believe she's meeting those needs, as best she can, in her way. She may become very frustrated that you don't respect her efforts to try and meet those needs. She will accuse you of expecting perfection from her and being unwilling to compromise. She will cry her eyes out over how much she's done, how much she's changed, all for you.

Anyway, I just heard this happens. No personal experience. None at all. Just sayin'. :-)
In IA's case, she ISNT putting any effort at all into meeting his needs, never has been. She doesnt give half a damn what he needs or wants. She is manipulative and selfish, and has some serious mental issues.

However YOUR W seems to be making a real effort. Personally I am still not sure what exactly her motivating factor IS for trying, but the fact remains that she is. Of course its up to you going forward how and for how long you choose to work with her on this.

Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you.


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post #224 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 11:05 AM
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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Originally Posted by 3Xnocharm View Post
Personally I am still not sure what exactly her motivating factor IS for trying, but the fact remains that she is.
She knows that CO will divorce her if the situation doesn't improve. But at least she is trying...
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post #225 of 383 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: OK, major privacy milestone I almost didn't see

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Originally Posted by In Absentia View Post
She knows that CO will divorce her if the situation doesn't improve. But at least she is trying...
That makes it sound so harsh. It's the truth, but somehow it seems better to say that the frustration I feel has become so great that I can't see things working out if she can't find it within her to understand what it is she does (or doesn't do) that makes me feel the way I do. It's a conversation she goes out of the way to avoid, because it makes her cry. I carry with me the pain of things in our relationship throughout the day, nearly every day, and she thinks it's too much burden on her to deal with it maybe an hour a week.

I don't think I'm explaining things very well here. Part of it is that I've got a couple of threads on different things and it's easy to lose track of where I am.

The good thing, and it remains a good thing, is that she's opened up ever-so-slightly on the privacy stuff and allowed me to come to her PT appointment. What still needs work is her attitude about what her shrink has told her, how she needs to change her attitude and how she looks at things. What needs to change, FOR me, FOR us, because it's not all about her, is for her to be more open about what's going on, let me know what it is that needs to change, so I can help her with it. The 100% truthful reason she doesn't like that is because she has an entire life of agreeing to something for a few weeks and then sliding back into her comfort zone. The last thing in the world she wants is accountability. And that will be the topic I bring up at tomorrow's MC session.
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