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post #16 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 10:05 AM
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Re: What should dad do?

I guess I'm going to be the dissenting voice here (which surprises me a little)....this is not an object, or even a puppy, this is a small, defenseless PERSON who is going to live FOREVER with the consequences of the decisions that the adults around her make. I don't know if I'm PMSing, or if the Eating Disorder thread has me a little raw, but the callousness of people who ought to see the actual VALUE of the life of this little one stings my heart.

I know it sounds like I'm judging people for their feelings, but I'm NOT...I just can't understand. I know that most people are not generous with themselves, even if they are willing to give money....somehow, being open and giving in spirit is more costly. But that's why we are here, on earth! What else for...to accumulate as much "stuff" as we can? Or money...? Or free-time...or peace and quiet...?? HOW is that more valuable than what we get by giving to other people?

In my lifetime, as an adult (so far), I have had puppies, dogs, cats, kittens, bunnies, birds, tadpoles, snakes, young children, teens, and even other adults within my sphere of care (and living IN my house), and I have NEVER EVER regretted the decision. Especially with the people, but also the animals. Is it challenging - YES. So freakin' what, what the heck are we here for if not to BE WITH other people when they need us...??? I can't be the only person on here who understands this...

Again, this is a HUMAN BEING, an utterly vulnerable, TRUSTING, oh-so-valuable tiny little human -- her emotional well-being is so much more valuable than keeping money, not making sacrifices, or her mother's x-husband's FEELINGS about his x-wife...this is a defenseless human being IN NEED, and of course, it's up to her sister to do her best to meet that need, and then the father's job to meet the need of his daughter, by allowing it (and helping her) - as it would be for ANY adult in that position!

If dad was a truly caring father, he would do everything he could to make his daughter's deepest wish come true - the outcome here will affect her for the rest of her life, no matter what he decides. He's not going to make it go away by forcing her to give the baby up. He may lose his daughter all together. It will be difficult, but the most rewarding experiences often are.

REMEMBER -- Ghandi said the greatness of a society is shown by how it treats it's weakest members...I don't think he meant that as how a society's government treats them, but the individual people in that society when they are called upon to make a choice. And I totally agree.

Please tell her that if her dad throws her out, she's welcome to come stay with me and my family if she needs to....my kids will double-up to make room, and I'd be honored to offer assistance to such a wonderful person as she must be. AND I MEAN THAT.

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post #17 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 10:38 AM
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Re: What should dad do?

I am appalled that anyone would not suggest the bio-father be found and made to be responsible in some manner. This is a sickness of society, today.

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post #18 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 11:10 AM
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Re: What should dad do?

I think every effort should be made to find the father and offer him a chance to raise his child.

If finding the father isn't possible or he rejects the baby, the sister should have custody since she wants the baby. However, I think this means that she needs to be employed full time, living independently, and have childcare in place for the baby. If she wants to become a mother she needs to grow up and fast. I know a lot of you seem to disagree, but I was a wife and mother at 19. I worked and lived independently because I was an adult and that is what adults do. Was it hard? Sometimes. But that's what you sign up for when you're a legal adult who chooses to have a child whether it be by birth or adoption.

If Sister realizes she cannot care for the baby then I think the baby should be given for adoption to a family who will love and raise the child in a stable home.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.
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post #19 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 02:10 PM
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Re: What should dad do?

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Originally Posted by MJJEAN View Post
I think every effort should be made to find the father and offer him a chance to raise his child.

If finding the father isn't possible or he rejects the baby, the sister should have custody since she wants the baby. However, I think this means that she needs to be employed full time, living independently, and have childcare in place for the baby. If she wants to become a mother she needs to grow up and fast. I know a lot of you seem to disagree, but I was a wife and mother at 19. I worked and lived independently because I was an adult and that is what adults do. Was it hard? Sometimes. But that's what you sign up for when you're a legal adult who chooses to have a child whether it be by birth or adoption.

If Sister realizes she cannot care for the baby then I think the baby should be given for adoption to a family who will love and raise the child in a stable home.
I too was a young wife and mum. Married at 19, bought first home at 20, had first child at 21, it wasn't unusual then. Its only now that young people take so long to actually grow up and mature. As long as she is a mature young lady she will be fine. I admire her for her willingness to care for this poor child.
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post #20 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 02:19 PM
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Re: What should dad do?

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Originally Posted by LisaDiane View Post
I guess I'm going to be the dissenting voice here (which surprises me a little)....this is not an object, or even a puppy, this is a small, defenseless PERSON who is going to live FOREVER with the consequences of the decisions that the adults around her make. I don't know if I'm PMSing, or if the Eating Disorder thread has me a little raw, but the callousness of people who ought to see the actual VALUE of the life of this little one stings my heart.

I know it sounds like I'm judging people for their feelings, but I'm NOT...I just can't understand. I know that most people are not generous with themselves, even if they are willing to give money....somehow, being open and giving in spirit is more costly. But that's why we are here, on earth! What else for...to accumulate as much "stuff" as we can? Or money...? Or free-time...or peace and quiet...?? HOW is that more valuable than what we get by giving to other people?

In my lifetime, as an adult (so far), I have had puppies, dogs, cats, kittens, bunnies, birds, tadpoles, snakes, young children, teens, and even other adults within my sphere of care (and living IN my house), and I have NEVER EVER regretted the decision. Especially with the people, but also the animals. Is it challenging - YES. So freakin' what, what the heck are we here for if not to BE WITH other people when they need us...??? I can't be the only person on here who understands this...

Again, this is a HUMAN BEING, an utterly vulnerable, TRUSTING, oh-so-valuable tiny little human -- her emotional well-being is so much more valuable than keeping money, not making sacrifices, or her mother's x-husband's FEELINGS about his x-wife...this is a defenseless human being IN NEED, and of course, it's up to her sister to do her best to meet that need, and then the father's job to meet the need of his daughter, by allowing it (and helping her) - as it would be for ANY adult in that position!

If dad was a truly caring father, he would do everything he could to make his daughter's deepest wish come true - the outcome here will affect her for the rest of her life, no matter what he decides. He's not going to make it go away by forcing her to give the baby up. He may lose his daughter all together. It will be difficult, but the most rewarding experiences often are.

REMEMBER -- Ghandi said the greatness of a society is shown by how it treats it's weakest members...I don't think he meant that as how a society's government treats them, but the individual people in that society when they are called upon to make a choice. And I totally agree.

Please tell her that if her dad throws her out, she's welcome to come stay with me and my family if she needs to....my kids will double-up to make room, and I'd be honored to offer assistance to such a wonderful person as she must be. AND I MEAN THAT.
:i agree::
Well if you are dissenting then so am I.
Fantastic post, and I agree entirely. My husband and I have spent most of this year helping and supporting a family member and her baby who has several medical issues, and we will carry on doing so. In fact we are trying to sell our house so that we can live nearer to them. Are we exhausted? Yes many times we have been, especially during and after the operations she has had to have, we are both well into our 60's now. Has it been worth it? Absolutely, the baby is a delight and we have a very special close relationship with her.

I would never ever dream of throwing one of my children out if she wanted to care for her own sister, no matter who the dad was. My children come first before my own resentments and negative feelings. I would be so proud to have that lady as my child and would do all I could to support her in her vitally important task. The fathers attitude is appalling. He will loose her and rightfully so.

Last edited by Diana7; 11-17-2019 at 02:28 PM.
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post #21 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What should dad do?

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1)What should dad do?

Just what he wants to do.


2)Let the baby come to his house or chuck his daughter out?

I thought this daughter was grown with her own career? Why is she still there at home when she has a life of her own? He isn't chucking anyone out. She's using him. Time for her to get her own life and be an adult who visits dad and step mom once in a while.



3)What is the baby's relationship with this dad seeing he is the father to its siblings but was born after the divorce s cannot be step dad.?

Only what he wants it to be. He owes this child nothing.


4)What is he?

The father of the two half sisters of the orphan girl.


I think he is doing the right thing, if that's what he wants. He may over time accept the orphan as nice little young person who his daughter deeply cares about and the love might run over onto her.

One thing you don't say a word about is the father of the orphan. Is he dead? Are they looking for him? Do they know who he is? Can they find out? That guy is the *******, not this guy you are asking about. That guy needs to be responsible for his actions. He needs to at the very least, pay for his daughter's living, at least in part. My thinking is, he needs to pay it all. He's the only parent she has. Go find him and force him through the courts to pay. This is bull**** making this guy in the op out to be like the bad guy. That's worse than wrong.
The father of the orphan is not known by anyone who is around the baby now. The husband was divorcing the woman on grounds of cheating and getting pregnant. The woman had not contested it or tried to pin the baby on him, meaning she was aware that the baby was not his.

The real father, I am not sure if anyone knows him. It is also not clear if the Social Services will actually allow the girl to look after the baby. All that is known now is that she is determined to keep the baby and the Social services are considering the matter.
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post #22 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 03:54 PM
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Re: What should dad do?

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Originally Posted by MaiChi View Post
The father of the orphan is not known by anyone who is around the baby now. The husband was divorcing the woman on grounds of cheating and getting pregnant. The woman had not contested it or tried to pin the baby on him, meaning she was aware that the baby was not his.

The real father, I am not sure if anyone knows him. It is also not clear if the Social Services will actually allow the girl to look after the baby. All that is known now is that she is determined to keep the baby and the Social services are considering the matter.
If Dad says no, and threatens to throw his daughter out, he risks souring his relationship with her for ever.


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post #23 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What should dad do?

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I am appalled that anyone would not suggest the bio-father be found and made to be responsible in some manner. This is a sickness of society, today.
I agree, but how could he be found?
What is even more appalling is that people have affairs and make that infinitely worse by not using contraception. If a woman does not declare who the baby father is, how can anyone, including authorities find out? Its also a concern that we do not accept that we are liable to death and we could leave chaos behind. We need to put our lives in some sort of order.
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post #24 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What should dad do?

I am amazed by the fact that a lot of people I know would happily look after a baby found abandoned, who they know nothing about. This baby deserves the same treatment but is causing a lot of unrest.
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post #25 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 11:25 PM
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Re: What should dad do?

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I am amazed by the fact that a lot of people I know would happily look after a baby found abandoned, who they know nothing about. This baby deserves the same treatment but is causing a lot of unrest.
I'm not sure what is amazing about that. The baby actually brings negative emotions to the table.

Look, if I decided to take him my sibling's orphaned son, that baby has a positive sum on my relationship ledger. Assuming I have a good relationship with my sibling, it will transfer positivity to my relationship with my orphaned nephew.

If a baby is found abandoned on the doorstep, there is no prior history of a relationship. There is a "zero" in the "relationship ledger" to transfer to the baby. But I may take in the baby out of kindheartedness.

But a baby who is a child of someone who hurt me (and the cheating wife is someone who caused hurt), brings NEGATIVE emotions to the "relationship ledger". Since the baby is only conceived as a result of her infidelity and moving on (as opposed to our own children we shared), it is much MORE of a constant reminder of the infidelity than our shared children would be.

So, I'm not surprised that this baby would bring more tension than an anonymous baby. I don't find it amazing at all. I find it consistent with expectations, actually.

Sure, it would be great if he was magnanimous and could take the baby in. But if he harbored resentment and the baby felt that resentment while growing up, and was treated differently, would it actually be in the best interests of the baby to come to that household? It seems the baby would be better off with an unrelated family.

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post #26 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 08:58 AM
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Cool Re: What should dad do?

I'm of the opinion that Dad should be ruled out of paternity by having him take a DNA test. If he is cleared, then proceed accordingly!

The 19 year old daughter has a beautiful soul for wanting to keep the family intact. If she cannot care for the child on her own, she should try to solicit other heartfelt family members to take the child and her in until such time that she can exercise total responsibility for caring for the child!

My heart goes out to that young lady! God is truly smiling on her!

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post #27 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 09:39 AM
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Re: What should dad do?

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I'm not sure what is amazing about that. The baby actually brings negative emotions to the table.

Look, if I decided to take him my sibling's orphaned son, that baby has a positive sum on my relationship ledger. Assuming I have a good relationship with my sibling, it will transfer positivity to my relationship with my orphaned nephew.

If a baby is found abandoned on the doorstep, there is no prior history of a relationship. There is a "zero" in the "relationship ledger" to transfer to the baby. But I may take in the baby out of kindheartedness.

But a baby who is a child of someone who hurt me (and the cheating wife is someone who caused hurt), brings NEGATIVE emotions to the "relationship ledger". Since the baby is only conceived as a result of her infidelity and moving on (as opposed to our own children we shared), it is much MORE of a constant reminder of the infidelity than our shared children would be.

So, I'm not surprised that this baby would bring more tension than an anonymous baby. I don't find it amazing at all. I find it consistent with expectations, actually.

Sure, it would be great if he was magnanimous and could take the baby in. But if he harbored resentment and the baby felt that resentment while growing up, and was treated differently, would it actually be in the best interests of the baby to come to that household? It seems the baby would be better off with an unrelated family.

Your (rather unfeeling) beliefs about relationships is why it's setup that adults have the ability (or SHOULD HAVE) and responsibility to set aside THEIR feelings and THEIR desires to take care of others who NEED us....there is NO excuse.

And I'm sure the loss that this poor daughter has suffered (from having such a selfish mother, to losing her in childbirth) is going to darken her heart for the rest of her life...that's probably why she feels so compelled to take her baby sister. And for the father to overlook this need that she has, for his own emotional comfort, is not only selfish and non-parental, but it's short-sighted as well -- it's not like if he gets his way she will go back to being a carefree 19yr old (if she ever was) - this situation, and her new little sister, has marked her for life, and will haunt her if she has to let her go.

And almost always, the best place for any baby is with people who love them - if a family who wants to adopt and love a child of their own could be found, that could be the EQUAL of staying with her sister, but almost never better.
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post #28 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What should dad do?

Thank you very much all of you for clearly articulating your view points. I found my own view swinging from one end to another and back when I put myself in different people involved's shoes. Then I am looking at the powers that be, Social Services, who can be blamed if something later happens to that poor baby. Then the woman's husband who could have gone either way.
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post #29 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 11:05 PM
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Re: What should dad do?

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What is the baby's relationship with this dad seeing he is the father to its siblings but was born after the divorce s cannot be step dad.?
Nothing. No relathionship.

Quote:
What is he?
ex husband.
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post #30 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-19-2019, 07:56 AM
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Re: What should dad do?

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What should dad do? Let the baby come to his house or chuck his daughter out?
Why does it have to be either/or? Besides, it's pretty obvious that the teenager is in NO position to support herself and live in her own place. So she just assumes her step-father should foot the bill for her to raise this baby.

The husband has every right to feel the way he feels. He's not responsible for the child his ex wife died giving birth to.

Jeez, there are millions of childless couples longing for a baby to love and raise. The best thing for this baby is adoption to loving parents who WANT him/her.

Let's get REAL here - the father doesn't want to be a part of raising this child. He's entitled to NOT have to. And if he did grudgingly give into the teenager, what kind of environment is THAT going to be for this poor kid, sensing the resentment from him, and having NO parents at all, except a sister? Sometimes, you need to look at the bigger picture, not the immediate one.

Unless the teenager is financially independent and has her own place AND daycare set up (which I highly doubt), she's in no position to demand ANYTHING from her step-father and she's certainly in no position to 'raise' a child. Besides, it's pretty likely she won't be the one doing the lion's share of raising that kid anyway. It will fall on everyone else's shoulders as is usually the case when a teenager living at home has a kid (even in this case where she didn't give birth to the baby). It almost always falls on the parents.

Once you start seeing your worth, you'll find it harder to stay around people who don't.
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