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post #61 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 01:07 PM
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

Well, 'dating' has only been around (roughly) 100 years.

So we've gone from the extreme of women not being allowed alone in the presence of a man without a chaperon to the extreme of having sex within hours after meeting someone. In 100 years. Out of the entire history of human relations.

Of course not everyone in the past abided by those rules, but still, the standards for acceptable behavior for both sexes were very clear to everyone.

Now all that's been tossed aside and relationships are a complete mess.

And I blame women.

We have squandered our freedom and our power in order to behave more like men.

And - relationships used to be based on values and a true need for survival, with everyone contributing and doing their part. Now it's just about finding who entertains you for the moment.

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Definitely a counselor would see them as codependent.

Years back I read an article by an old psychologist discussing the issue.

What was once considered part of a normal healthy relationship has been twisted into a disorder or unhealthy dependency issue.



Last edited by minimalME; 12-02-2019 at 01:11 PM.
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post #62 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by minimalME View Post
Well, 'dating' has only been around (roughly) 100 years.

So we've gone from the extreme of women not being allowed alone in the presence of a man without a chaperon to the extreme of having sex hours after meeting someone. In 100 years. Out of the entire history of human relations.

Of course not everyone in the past abided by those rules, but still, the standards for acceptable behavior for both sexes were very clear to everyone.

Now all that's been tossed aside and relationships are a complete mess.

And I blame women.

We have squandered our freedom and our power in order to behave more like men.

And - relationships used to be based on values and a true need for survival, with everyone contributing and doing their part. Now it's just about finding who entertains you for the moment.

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Definitely a counselor would see them as codependent.

Years back I read an article by an old psychologist discussing the issue.

What was once considered part of a normal healthy relationship has been twisted into a disorder or unhealthy dependency issue.
But but but thats '**** shaming'. Gasp.
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post #63 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 01:16 PM
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I would say there is an unhealthy amount of non co-dependency in marriage. People ready to hop any hiccup or opportunity comes along. The modern day Walk Away Wife Syndrome is an example of this.
I'd call it the "walkaway SPOUSE syndrome". With more women being able to bring home a decent pay, walkaway husbands are becoming just as common as walkaway wives.
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post #64 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 01:22 PM
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

It's truth. And it is whorish behavior.

As I've said on here before, I see it as a notch or two lower than prostitution.

To me modern dating is dehumanizing. That's why I don't participate anymore.

And women thinking they can be promiscuous with no consequences is a complete denial of the differences/wants/goals between men and women.

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But but but thats '**** shaming'. Gasp.
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post #65 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 01:34 PM
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It's truth. And it is whorish behavior.

As I've said on here before, I see it as a notch or two lower than prostitution.

To me modern dating is dehumanizing. That's why I don't participate anymore.

And women thinking they can be promiscuous with no consequences is a complete denial of the differences/wants/goals between men and women.

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But but but thats '**** shaming'. Gasp.
FWIW, there are men who don't find it particularly attractive. Thats how I found my first wife... a hookup a couple hours after our first meetup. Now I find these women revolting. I hope I'm not being too harsh, but what I once thought of as acceptable behavior in women, I've now have become conditioned to find it repulsive. I think its also repulsive in men to a certain degree, but men are not women and vice versa.
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post #66 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 02:20 PM
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

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Originally Posted by minimalME View Post
Well, 'dating' has only been around (roughly) 100 years.

Now all that's been tossed aside and relationships are a complete mess.

And I blame women.

And - relationships used to be based on values and a true need for survival, with everyone contributing and doing their part. Now it's just about finding who entertains you for the moment.
Very true.
Many Men and women have suffered a menticide which promulgated the idea of commodification of each other. Really too many treat people in their life as they would some item they tire of.


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post #67 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 02:35 PM
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by minimalME View Post
Well, 'dating' has only been around (roughly) 100 years.

So we've gone from the extreme of women not being allowed alone in the presence of a man without a chaperon to the extreme of having sex within hours after meeting someone. In 100 years. Out of the entire history of human relations.

Of course not everyone in the past abided by those rules, but still, the standards for acceptable behavior for both sexes were very clear to everyone.

Now all that's been tossed aside and relationships are a complete mess.

And I blame women.

We have squandered our freedom and our power in order to behave more like men.

And - relationships used to be based on values and a true need for survival, with everyone contributing and doing their part. Now it's just about finding who entertains you for the moment.
Relationships are a complete mess?

Just because people didn't talk about them being messed up in the 50's doesn't mean they were good in the 50's.

Which 'freedoms' and 'power' have women 'squandered?' Which relationship style is valid for you?

If one were to look at the sum total of human history, many styles and roles have been tried - from matriarchies to patriarchies to men with many wives to women with many husbands. To men as the hunters to women as the hunters. Etc. Hell, there have been sacred prostitutes that were both men and women!

This smacks of puritanism to me - plus aspiring to the ideals of a past that were never true.

Whatever works for you, do it. But let other people be whatever works for them.

Last edited by Marduk; 12-02-2019 at 02:40 PM.
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post #68 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 06:32 PM
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

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Definitely a counselor would see them as codependent.

Years back I read an article by an old psychologist discussing the issue.

What was once considered part of a normal healthy relationship has been twisted into a disorder or unhealthy dependency issue.
I'm reading about it and discussing it in counseling. The more that is discovered, the less we know. Well, that's my uneducated opinion worth about two cents in the new plated pennies.
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post #69 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 06:41 PM
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

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It's the brave new world. Where traditional relationships are viewed as abnormal
The definitions of words like 'traditional' have come to mean oppression to women. I understand what they mean. In many relationships, it was true. When you grow up in it and it is looked upon as normal, it's tough to see. As I think back on things while in counseling, I discover more.

However, the ideal 'traditional' relationship would allow women to choose to be at home. It would not force them. Men would not have all the power in the relationship. It would be shared. While I see how it was shared between my parents, I can see others in my family through my mind's eye because they are all gone, who showed signs of things that don't look good.

I can remember at family gatherings, my aunts and uncles separating after dinner and going to different rooms to talk. I do think they liked that. They got to talk about the things women and men talk about among themselves. If they were living in a good relationship, they would go home and discuss the things they felt needed to be shared. I don't really see anything wrong with that. I see it commonly done here.

Though, it is done in a virtual setting like some room that is formed and those invited can discuss things. I was in one a little, but it didn't catch on for me. That's no one's fault.
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post #70 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 06:49 PM
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

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I would say there is an unhealthy amount of non co-dependency in marriage. People ready to hop any hiccup or opportunity comes along. The modern day Walk Away Wife Syndrome is an example of this.
There really is no such thing as the WAWS. Many of the women I've known took time to figure out what they wanted to do. They consulted their friends. They consulted family members. They thought about it. They connected things they were told with what was going on in their marriage. Now, they might have been led astray by those interested in some selfish gratification.

However, in the end, these women made a decision and then made a move. Sometimes, maybe many times, they will date a little and even have sex when they are comfortable with their decision to leave. Once that happens, it's pretty well over for them. They never took it lightly.

A few will cheat on their husband's as a revenge. Those women may have some issues with self-esteem. I don't know. They may just be super pissed, too. Everyone is different. Some things are or seem similar.

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post #71 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 07:50 PM
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

One should read the book Coercive Control. The author has a couple of chapters about the history of domestic violence and how society treated it over the centuries. More detailed of course in the 50 years. One fact that I am very impressed with (and not in a positive way) is that it was not until 1976 that the UK repealed the law that a wife had to give all of her wages to her husband. no counter responsibility from the husband at all.

After reading that book, I was left contemplating how stressful life must have been for women until recently.

And if anyone wants to watch how savagely women were treated at the upper end of society, just watch the film The Duchess with Keira Knightly.
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post #72 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 08:39 PM
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

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One should read the book Coercive Control. The author has a couple of chapters about the history of domestic violence and how society treated it over the centuries. More detailed of course in the 50 years. One fact that I am very impressed with (and not in a positive way) is that it was not until 1976 that the UK repealed the law that a wife had to give all of her wages to her husband. no counter responsibility from the husband at all.



After reading that book, I was left contemplating how stressful life must have been for women until recently.



And if anyone wants to watch how savagely women were treated at the upper end of society, just watch the film The Duchess with Keira Knightly.


Its on Netflix. Thanks!


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post #73 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 09:28 PM
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

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So basically you have let what happened to you make you into a worse person who uses others selfishly. You know, what is inside us comes out when we face hard times. For good or bad. I know people who have been through the most terrible things yet they are still living a good lives of integrity. The things we go through can shape us into being even better people if we let them.
When I was dumped, one of my first reactions was that I should have never put forth effort or cared since in the end it didn't matter. I can't imagine holding on to that feeling for that long though. When I was deciding to marry my wife I was a bit naive in that I assumed eventual balance or reciprocity and thought as long I was responsible, helpful, and tried to make her life easier and more fun she'd do the same for me. Affection would be returned, feelings would grow and we'd live happily ever after. I'm not as naive anymore.

At 20 I was legitimately worried that I would end up alone so I kind of overlooked how much my fiancee was treating me like a checklist and not like a real person. At 42 I now know that living alone isn't a worst case scenario. I don't have Bob's bitterness but even after being separated over a year, the thought of going on a date makes me squeamish. I *know* on average a long term relationship is better than being single. My marriage, even though it didn't end well was probably at least balanced long term.

There's nothing inherently wrong with either gender though they tend to have perspectives different from each other which causes all kinds of misunderstandings and excuses for bad behavior or attitudes.
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post #74 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

I don't consider myself "bitter" and I don't project that attitude to others. I have just changed. Calloused is probably the right word. My dad recently almost died and I guess it was a good test to how calloused I am now. To be right honest, I realized that I was way too sensitive and I needed to become more non-reactive to survive better in this world. I think women were built strategically to open someone's feelers like an onion, then grab the lighter fluid once everything is open.

And people probably think I am just projecting my "hurt feelings", but really, it's seriously like continuously grabbing a hot fence wire repeatedly! At some point, you smarten up.

What I have been able to do is "get out of the game". I spent many years in the game and I can assure that staying on the sidelines gives a totally different perspective. You literally get to study all the "plays" and see what people do. You also learn how many have "secret lives", which is a LOT.

I am certainly not advocating to "go be single", but wow, the odds just aren't good, and the down side is not good. I realize this site is a pool of "problems" but even when I look over my FB list, there is about 50% or more than have lost at the game. And they will all just saddle up and do it again, and again, and finally stick with someone when they are about 60 because they need help getting up the steps. OMG, there are a few female singles on my FB that constantly need to post how they don't need a man, they are super strong, but today I need one, single sucks, single life, blah!!!!! We get it! You are single and need to get laid!

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post #75 of 83 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 11:13 PM
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Re: What a bleak picture to relationships this forum brings....lol

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I don't consider myself "bitter" and I don't project that attitude to others. I have just changed. Calloused is probably the right word. My dad recently almost died and I guess it was a good test to how calloused I am now. To be right honest, I realized that I was way too sensitive and I needed to become more non-reactive to survive better in this world. I think women were built strategically to open someone's feelers like an onion, then grab the lighter fluid once everything is open.

And people probably think I am just projecting my "hurt feelings", but really, it's seriously like continuously grabbing a hot fence wire repeatedly! At some point, you smarten up.

What I have been able to do is "get out of the game". I spent many years in the game and I can assure that staying on the sidelines gives a totally different perspective. You literally get to study all the "plays" and see what people do. You also learn how many have "secret lives", which is a LOT.

I am certainly not advocating to "go be single", but wow, the odds just aren't good, and the down side is not good. I realize this site is a pool of "problems" but even when I look over my FB list, there is about 50% or more than have lost at the game. And they will all just saddle up and do it again, and again, and finally stick with someone when they are about 60 because they need help getting up the steps. OMG, there are a few female singles on my FB that constantly need to post how they don't need a man, they are super strong, but today I need one, single sucks, single life, blah!!!!! We get it! You are single and need to get laid!
Ohmygosh!!! You've reverse-engineered the Inuit word for snow.

"Bitter". "Calloused". "Problems".

All female words for "No".

Bwahahahahah!

If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to. Dorothy Parker
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