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post #31 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 12:06 PM
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Re: Planning to Leave

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I don't consider what this is to be a partnership. He has not met my needs since being married, including financial, as he has always insisted I "contribute" as if raising the kids nd managing everything in the home isn't contributing. He works from 6am til probably 11pm, on average - 2 jobs, 1 to help pay the bills and the other is the business he started without consulting me and which he intends to eventually be the only source of income. He doesn't ever take any days off to spend with us.

When we got married I made it clear I wanted four kids. He agreed, and he promised to raise my oldest as his own. I have the means to raise four kids without him and always have. I currently work three afternoons a week and pay a babysitter to be with the kids while I am gone. I have continued to work because at the beginning he required me to and as time went on, because I figured I would need a way to support my kids someday.

He has kids from previous relationships, one of which used to come every other weekend (my husband was rarely home for these visits). He threatened to his psychiatrist that he wanted to murder my children and actually had a plan on how he would do it. With my husband never around, I put an end to those visits, but have encouraged him to continue working on his relationship with his son (which he won't do because he is working).

I have asked him to leave twice and he won't. He told me the last time that divorce papers are the only way he will leave, and I told him I could provide them. I have made it clear on countless occasions that I am miserable with our life because we are not partners in anything. I have no say in the business and haven't from the start. I wanted to raise a family together and he wants to build his empire. We want different things. But of course I didn't know that until after we got married because he won't communicate honestly, but instead tells me what I want to hear.

I think I answered most of the questions. Perhaps that will allow for some constructive feedback.
I am not sure why some people are beating up on you over this. Perhaps they need to read your other threads.

You have clearly informed your husband that you have been seriously unhappy with this relationship for a very long time. He's apparently done nothing to address the issues from his side. It looks like you have two choices: 1) Stay and continue the unhappy farce of a marriage or 2) divorce. I see no problem with choosing #2. It seems like the right choice. It's certainly the choice I've seen suggested over and over to people here on TAM who are in a marriage with a seriously neglectful spouse.

People are also very often told to get all their ducks in row before having their spouse served with the divorce papers. Makes sense to me.

Since you are giving birth in a few weeks, waiting until August makes sense. You need to get through the birth and the first few months of your child's life. On the other hand, having him served now would work as well. Serving him with divorce papers will not get him to move out unless he does it on his own accord. The courts generally will not order him to move out until the divorce is final.

Could he, during the divorce process force the sale of your home. That would mean that both of you, and all your children, would need to move out.


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post #32 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 12:11 PM
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Hi all - I'm writing to seek advice on the emotional aspect of leaving my husband. We have been married for 5 years (6 in July) and I am preparing to give birth to my 4th child (our 3rd together) next month. I have decided to leave my husband and am planning to do so in August. I feel this gives me some time to prepare financially, not to mention recover from childbirth and begin adjusting to life with 4 kids. I am not concerned about either of the aforementioned aspects: I earn a decent amount to support us and will be near family for additional support, and I have pretty much been a single parent to my 3 kids as long as I've had 3 kids due to my husband's workaholism. The thing I struggle with is the emotional piece - putting away money secretly, planning to consult attorneys and making alternative living arrangements, all in secret while my husband continues with life as usual. I feel like it is a betrayal and I feel badly for him. I know he will be "blind-sided" when I pull the trigger, despite my having warned him for years of the consequences of his workaholism and the fact that each year I become more bitter, angry and distant because he chooses his work over our marriage and family every time. What we have isn't a marriage or a partnership. He has the business and I manage EVERYTHING else. I am beyond exhausted (third trimester 😴:-) and hopeless that our situation will never change- it hasn't since we've been married. I've told him all of these things many times every year, and it seems to me that the more I tell him, the more determined he is to continue in his choices, leaving me to barely survive with everything else. I am angry and have come to nearly hate him and his work.

But then when I think about what I am planning, I feel bad. I almost feel guilty having any sort of pleasant conversation with him, as if I am lying about the state of our life together. So, for anyone having left a spouse, how do you navigate the emotions of separating from someone you once loved, someone for whom you feel pity - I know his life will be dreadfully impacted. But I just cant keep doing the same song and dance knowing it will never change. I wish I could leave right now, but it is smarter to wait. I just hate how life will continue on "normally" for months and then in August I will destroy the status quo and completely disrupt our family. But I need to for my sanity and for my kids' childhood - of that i have no doubt. But how do you reconcile your feelings on a day to day basis? Has anyone else struggled with the notion that you're living a lie while secretly planning the doom of your marriage?

Thanks so much for reading, and thanks in advance for your input and advice!
I reviewed your previous post history and really can't blame you for wanting to move on with your life. It takes two people actively working on a marriage to keep it alive. It seems like you've been going at it solo for a long time.

Divorce is not an easy or painless process.... For anyone involved. You intrinsically know this but you still don't want to hurt your husband. This thinking does not work. You have to resign yourself to the fact that there is going to be emotional fallout.

If you feel that you have done everything in your power to fix the relationship without success, then do not feel guilty for leaving the marriage. Do not let anyone make you feel bad about the decisions you need to take to improve you and your kids lives. They are not in your shoes.
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post #33 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 12:50 PM
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Re: Planning to Leave

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I am not sure why some people are beating up on you over this. Perhaps they need to read your other threads.
I think it's the way she started the thread - it honestly sounded to me like "my husband works all the time so I had 4 kids with him and will surprise him with a divorce" when the reality is "my husband is a dangerous psychopath that threatened to murder our children and I need to keep them and me safe."

I think it's still a fair question to ask, though - why have kids with a husband like this?

Quote:
You have clearly informed your husband that you have been seriously unhappy with this relationship for a very long time. He's apparently done nothing to address the issues from his side. It looks like you have two choices: 1) Stay and continue the unhappy farce of a marriage or 2) divorce. I see no problem with choosing #2. It seems like the right choice. It's certainly the choice I've seen suggested over and over to people here on TAM who are in a marriage with a seriously neglectful spouse.

People are also very often told to get all their ducks in row before having their spouse served with the divorce papers. Makes sense to me.

Since you are giving birth in a few weeks, waiting until August makes sense. You need to get through the birth and the first few months of your child's life. On the other hand, having him served now would work as well. Serving him with divorce papers will not get him to move out unless he does it on his own accord. The courts generally will not order him to move out until the divorce is final.

Could he, during the divorce process force the sale of your home. That would mean that both of you, and all your children, would need to move out.
Personally, I'd focus on safety first: have a safe place to go when you tell him, or have someone else tell him. Have the kids safe. Ensure the police know he's a danger. Do everything you can legally to protect the kid's safety custody-wise (as in you get sole custody) and protect them financially as best you can.

Plan the move, and then execute it quickly. His feelings in the matter stopped being relevant the minute he threatened the kids, so disregard them. Get out safely, and protect your interests.
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post #34 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 12:54 PM
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Re: Planning to Leave

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Originally Posted by KM87 View Post
Hi all - I'm writing to seek advice on the emotional aspect of leaving my husband. We have been married for 5 years (6 in July) and I am preparing to give birth to my 4th child (our 3rd together) next month. I have decided to leave my husband and am planning to do so in August. I feel this gives me some time to prepare financially, not to mention recover from childbirth and begin adjusting to life with 4 kids. I am not concerned about either of the aforementioned aspects: I earn a decent amount to support us and will be near family for additional support, and I have pretty much been a single parent to my 3 kids as long as I've had 3 kids due to my husband's workaholism. The thing I struggle with is the emotional piece - putting away money secretly, planning to consult attorneys and making alternative living arrangements, all in secret while my husband continues with life as usual. I feel like it is a betrayal and I feel badly for him. I know he will be "blind-sided" when I pull the trigger, despite my having warned him for years of the consequences of his workaholism and the fact that each year I become more bitter, angry and distant because he chooses his work over our marriage and family every time. What we have isn't a marriage or a partnership. He has the business and I manage EVERYTHING else. I am beyond exhausted (third trimester &#x1f634;<a href="https://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" >:-)</a> and hopeless that our situation will never change- it hasn't since we've been married. I've told him all of these things many times every year, and it seems to me that the more I tell him, the more determined he is to continue in his choices, leaving me to barely survive with everything else. I am angry and have come to nearly hate him and his work.

But then when I think about what I am planning, I feel bad. I almost feel guilty having any sort of pleasant conversation with him, as if I am lying about the state of our life together. So, for anyone having left a spouse, how do you navigate the emotions of separating from someone you once loved, someone for whom you feel pity - I know his life will be dreadfully impacted. But I just cant keep doing the same song and dance knowing it will never change. I wish I could leave right now, but it is smarter to wait. I just hate how life will continue on "normally" for months and then in August I will destroy the status quo and completely disrupt our family. But I need to for my sanity and for my kids' childhood - of that i have no doubt. But how do you reconcile your feelings on a day to day basis? Has anyone else struggled with the notion that you're living a lie while secretly planning the doom of your marriage?

Thanks so much for reading, and thanks in advance for your input and advice!
But you spend the money his so-called "workaholism" earns, and you kept allowing him to father your children, so where does this leave you?

By the way if you have been hiding money that is a marital asset the courts tend to take an unsympathetic view of that. So be very careful.

If your husband is as bad as has been reported don't play around. Get out ASAP.


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post #35 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 12:56 PM
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I rather doubt that any family attorney or family court judge would ever ask that question. It's not like she is having another child without her husband being equally involved in getting pregnant. Child support is determined by a set formula. No judge will determine that a living child not be supported by both parents just because the child exists.
Only if the divorce turns contentious and with the respondents lawyer bringing up the subject matter. Rest assured that the complantants lawyer will definitely not bring it up! The family court judge will not usually bring it up of his own accord, but could certainly be prompted to ask pertinent follow up questions.

In which case, it would be preferable to have a plausible answer prepared, or at least a tacit denial to the assertion that it was being done solely to pad child support from him!

In which case, she had best be prepared to answer any follow up questions to that denial!

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post #36 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 01:00 PM
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@Marduk: if I understood her post correctly it's her husband's kid that threatened to kill her kids. That's why she stop the kid visits
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post #37 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 01:14 PM
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Re: Planning to Leave

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@Marduk: if I understood her post correctly it's her husband's kid that threatened to kill her kids. That's why she stop the kid visits
Ah, then I misunderstood or misread it. Thanks for the correction.

At any rate, he knows that she's been unhappy for a long time, hasn't done anything about it, and hence shouldn't be surprised by her response. Her plan can be a bit more graceful if safety isn't an issue. So the divorce is kinda on him then.

But part of me would still be back to "why have so many kids with a husband like this?" But maybe that can be reserved for the post-divorce rebuilding process.
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post #38 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 01:18 PM
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Re: Planning to Leave

@KM87

During the divorce, you will need to list all of your debts and assets. This includes any accounts that you hold in your name only. So you will need to disclose the money that you are setting aside. In today's world, there is a paper trail for all things financial unless you keep it all in your sock drawer.

The funds you are putting aside will be counted as part of your 50% of marital assets.


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post #39 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 01:20 PM
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Re: Planning to Leave

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Firstly, why did she have three children with him if is so awful. Secondly, the same applies, if she wants to end the marriage then do the right and honest thing and tell him. No secrets. No going behind his back while pretending all is ok. Tell him and then start the divorce.
Had to like this 2X.

But in all of her post never once does she mention she's afraid of his temper or violence possibility. And if she was like most would say is in the third page of post. But no he's just ensuring to have a successful business and for his efforts gets him divorce. Anyone can be an ass, but really if your only concern is oneself it says alot of that person.

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post #40 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 01:31 PM
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Firstly, why did she have three children with him if is so awful. Secondly, the same applies, if she wants to end the marriage then do the right and honest thing and tell him. No secrets. No going behind his back while pretending all is ok. Tell him and then start the divorce.
Had to like this 2X.

But in all of her post never once does she mention she's afraid of his temper or violence possibility. And if she was like most would say is in the third page of post. But no he's just ensuring to have a successful business and for his efforts gets him divorce. Anyone can be an ass, but really if your only concern is oneself it says alot of that person.
It doesn't matter whether or not we feel her reasons for divorcing are justified. She doesn't need our permission nor is she asking for it. She is asking for advice on handling the fallout from the hurt she's bound to cause her spouse.

Just as most people don't give an OP a hard time for planning to divorce a spouse who withholds sex, we shouldn't be giving this OP a hard time for divorcing her workaholic husband. In both cases, someone is not getting their needs met.

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post #41 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 02:29 PM
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Re: Planning to Leave

Yikes, you are caught in a whirlwind of lies! Think about your kids, what will this teach them?

Communicate the "snap" to your husband. We typically react to this by launching into problem solving mode. Men do not like an unhappy wife!

Start to move the needle on new terms and patterns in the relationship.

#1 - Marriage comes first. If the business is too much then sell it. Downsize. You don't need that much money to be happy.
#2 - Kids come next. You both need to parent. Kids need to see 2 loving parents. They need to learn from both their male and female role models. When they grow up, they will do what you did (without even knowing it).

Cultivate the marriage by meeting eachother's emotional needs. Heal past hurts and focus on the future.
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post #42 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 02:41 PM
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Re: Planning to Leave

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Had to like this 2X.

But in all of her post never once does she mention she's afraid of his temper or violence possibility. And if she was like most would say is in the third page of post. But no he's just ensuring to have a successful business and for his efforts gets him divorce. Anyone can be an ass, but really if your only concern is oneself it says alot of that person.
She did say he was a belittler. Usually when someone describes someone with that word, it means he's mentally/verbally abusive. I haven't read the other threads to know if that's in there, but if it is, she should tread carefully and not inform him until all her ducks are in a row and she can leave with the kids immediately if need be. She's at high risk for PPD if he is indeed such a person (although if he's only home from 11pm to 6am, I don't see how he can be around enough to be an obstacle).

If this is NOT the case, then just inform him you're filing and will keep him informed on the progress. I see no other reason to hide it.
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post #43 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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I am not sure why some people are beating up on you over this. Perhaps they need to read your other threads.
I think it's the way she started the thread - it honestly sounded to me like "my husband works all the time so I had 4 kids with him and will surprise him with a divorce" when the reality is "my husband is a dangerous psychopath that threatened to murder our children and I need to keep them and me safe."

I think it's still a fair question to ask, though - why have kids with a husband like this?

Quote:
You have clearly informed your husband that you have been seriously unhappy with this relationship for a very long time. He's apparently done nothing to address the issues from his side. It looks like you have two choices: 1) Stay and continue the unhappy farce of a marriage or 2) divorce. I see no problem with choosing #2. It seems like the right choice. It's certainly the choice I've seen suggested over and over to people here on TAM who are in a marriage with a seriously neglectful spouse.

People are also very often told to get all their ducks in row before having their spouse served with the divorce papers. Makes sense to me.

Since you are giving birth in a few weeks, waiting until August makes sense. You need to get through the birth and the first few months of your child's life. On the other hand, having him served now would work as well. Serving him with divorce papers will not get him to move out unless he does it on his own accord. The courts generally will not order him to move out until the divorce is final.

Could he, during the divorce process force the sale of your home. That would mean that both of you, and all your children, would need to move out.
Personally, I'd focus on safety first: have a safe place to go when you tell him, or have someone else tell him. Have the kids safe. Ensure the police know he's a danger. Do everything you can legally to protect the kid's safety custody-wise (as in you get sole custody) and protect them financially as best you can.

Plan the move, and then execute it quickly. His feelings in the matter stopped being relevant the minute he threatened the kids, so disregard them. Get out safely, and protect your interests.
I can't reply to all at the moment, but I must clarify that it was my stepson threatening to murder my children, not my husband. I am not concerned about anyone's physical safety in our home at this time.
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post #44 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KM87 View Post
Hi all - I'm writing to seek advice on the emotional aspect of leaving my husband. We have been married for 5 years (6 in July) and I am preparing to give birth to my 4th child (our 3rd together) next month. I have decided to leave my husband and am planning to do so in August. I feel this gives me some time to prepare financially, not to mention recover from childbirth and begin adjusting to life with 4 kids. I am not concerned about either of the aforementioned aspects: I earn a decent amount to support us and will be near family for additional support, and I have pretty much been a single parent to my 3 kids as long as I've had 3 kids due to my husband's workaholism. The thing I struggle with is the emotional piece - putting away money secretly, planning to consult attorneys and making alternative living arrangements, all in secret while my husband continues with life as usual. I feel like it is a betrayal and I feel badly for him. I know he will be "blind-sided" when I pull the trigger, despite my having warned him for years of the consequences of his workaholism and the fact that each year I become more bitter, angry and distant because he chooses his work over our marriage and family every time. What we have isn't a marriage or a partnership. He has the business and I manage EVERYTHING else. I am beyond exhausted (third trimester &#x1f634;:-) and hopeless that our situation will never change- it hasn't since we've been married. I've told him all of these things many times every year, and it seems to me that the more I tell him, the more determined he is to continue in his choices, leaving me to barely survive with everything else. I am angry and have come to nearly hate him and his work.

But then when I think about what I am planning, I feel bad. I almost feel guilty having any sort of pleasant conversation with him, as if I am lying about the state of our life together. So, for anyone having left a spouse, how do you navigate the emotions of separating from someone you once loved, someone for whom you feel pity - I know his life will be dreadfully impacted. But I just cant keep doing the same song and dance knowing it will never change. I wish I could leave right now, but it is smarter to wait. I just hate how life will continue on "normally" for months and then in August I will destroy the status quo and completely disrupt our family. But I need to for my sanity and for my kids' childhood - of that i have no doubt. But how do you reconcile your feelings on a day to day basis? Has anyone else struggled with the notion that you're living a lie while secretly planning the doom of your marriage?

Thanks so much for reading, and thanks in advance for your input and advice!
But you spend the money his so-called "workaholism" earns, and you kept allowing him to father your children, so where does this leave you?

By the way if you have been hiding money that is a marital asset the courts tend to take an unsympathetic view of that. So be very careful.

If your husband is as bad as has been reported don't play around. Get out ASAP.
Again, I cannot respond in detail at this time, but I feel compelled to clarify that his earnings go towards household expenses (though he cannot cover all of them) and after I take care of the remainder of the bills the money is sunk into his business. I do not spend "his" money, and am able to put away only a fraction of "mine".
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post #45 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020, 02:52 PM
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Re: Planning to Leave

This is a tough one, given his history and your current situation (pregnancy)
It may be worth your while to consult an IC for this one. While I do not agree with your "springing" this on him and planning it all this time, you gotta do you.
An IC may help you navigate this impending situation in a way where you are not lying, but answering to the best of your ability.
I would simply not pretend everything is fine. That's lying. Continue to remind him of your unhappiness. I'd just tell him the truth. Divorce day is coming. No surprises.
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