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Should Adultery Matter in Divorce?

7K views 46 replies 29 participants last post by  EleGirl 
#1 ·
It seems like adultery does not really have any effect on property division or support in divorce these days unless the WS was spending/giving money to AP. Am I old-fashioned thinking that their should be some type of penalty for bad behavior in a marriage?

A friend of mine was cheated on by his wife and now she is openly dating the AP in their small town (before the divorce is even final). Because he was the higher earner, he is paying significant spousal support. It just doesn't seem fair.

Thoughts? Are there states or countries where it does matter?
 
#3 ·
IMHO no. As a tax payer, I don't want the courts spending time figuring out who cheated on who when. I don't want PIs, spy cams etc. Having cheating matter would seem to then logically have other sexual activity matter. Is always turning down sex cause for divorce? How often is often enough.

Form a *legal*, not moral point of view, I want the courts to provide the correct money transfer to deal with the economic issues, nothing else.
 
#6 ·
In most divorce cases, settlement is encouraged. I would think the BS would often have collected the info through a PI or other means before getting to court.

But, you make a good point - where is the line drawn? For me, a physical affair is way over that line, abuse is over that line. In those cases, I think the victim should not have to pay the other party.
 
#7 ·
Adultery may still have some impact in a few states (not sure) but certainly not as it should (IMO). What's completely unfair is when the low/no earner is the cheater and ends up with alimony. Back in the day, alimony was intended to help women who had never worked or were minimally employed and were dumped by their cheating husbands. I doubt that's the majority of cases now.
 
#8 ·
I don't think it should because we tax payers cannot afford to act like the arbitrator of morality. Further, it's very hard to prove adultery and/or fight false accusations of it. Basically by the time the divorce is final, the lawyers now have all the couple's assets. Just splitting them and moving on with their lives would be a better move financially.

In addition, if adultery can be the basis of divorce, then so should all other bad/immoral behavior. Cheating is bad. But there are a lot of other things that a spouse can do that are equally as bad. Why chose only one of these things?
 
#11 ·
The real issue is not the adultery. It's the fact that men will stay much longer than they should hoping for something to change. Men get lazy and used to what is familiar, even when he knows in his heart she is being unfaithful.

I do know there are many women the same. I don't mean to leave you out.

So, how do we change that within ourselves? How do we recognize and get out sooner? How do we know when our dedication to our vows is harming or going to harm us?

Figure those out and how to not feel like it was your fault that your spouse was unfaithful and you will be okay. When we hurt, some of us will accept blame because the wayward needs an excuse because they aren't mature enough to just say, "I could have gotten a divorce, but I wanted to find security and safety in another before I did".

Since the marriage is broken when one is unfaithful, maybe it is time for the betrayed to go and look for the same before the divorce? If you are able to handle the emotions. I couldn't have.

IMO YMMV
 
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#12 ·
Well, in my humble opinion, the law is not what makes something "right" or "wrong" (it's wrong before there's a law written), nor should the law attempt to legislate morality. I think we would all agree that adultery is "wrong" and that no one "should" do it, and yet, because I believe in freedom, I also believe that people can choose things with which I disagree. In other words, people can choose to be idiots if that's what they choose!

Where we fall apart, I think, is in two ways. Let people be free to make their own choices, but then allow them to experience the cost and the benefit of the choice they made (#1), and treat marriage like you would any other business contract (#2).

For #1 if a person chooses to be an idiot--hey I might disagree but they can do it! But let then experience the BENEFIT of being an idiot (the fun at the moment or the instant gratification) and the COST of being an idiot (jail time, child support...whatever cost we assess). That's where the law comes in: we write down, "If someone does ____, the cost will be ___"

For #2 if a marriage was like any other business contract, it would be that Party A agrees to partner with Party B. They agree to build a household and family together. Party A will bring A, B, and C to the partnership, and Party B will bring X, Y, and Z...and they agree together to build 1, 2, and 3 and own it jointly. Both parties agree that this partnership will be exclusive. If either party breaches the contract, they lose their rights to the partnership and lose their interest in their partner's property and the jointly owned property...and their partner can sue for damages.

The end.

Thus, it's not "adultery" that's allowed or not allowed legally--it's breaking the contract. And the cost of breaking the contract is the same as any other business deal: you breach the contract (and the partner can prove it), you lose. Period.
 
#14 ·
The solution is no or very short term alimony. Alimony is a 20th century idea whose time has passed. It's the responsibility of everyone man and women to be able to provide for themselves and there is no reason today why they can't. Now if you were taking care of the kids and hadn't worked for years then I can see a short time alimony to give you time to get some training like say 5 years but I don't think one person providing for another grown adult for the rest of their lives makes sense anymore.

Besides having someone pay for you who is not your immediate relative such as a parent or spouse is not a very healthy lifestyle for the person taking the money. It's disempowering.

I am all for splitting all wealth earned during the time of the marriage and child support when necessary unless custody is split 50/50 which should be the default.
 
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#15 ·
In the UK what matters is that most importantly the children are cared for and also that there is a reasonable division of assets. Who did or didn't cause it is irrelevant. While I hate adultery, the cheater still has to live and still has to be able to be a parent. Oh and BTW I am talking as someone whose former husband did worse things that even adultery. I don't believe in vengeance, but dealing with things in a fair and reasonable way for all concerned, especially for any children there are.

Also adultery may not be the only issue. What if one spouse had been very abusive? Does that count as well? Or a long term porn user? Or neglectful?
 
#17 ·
I’m a WH and my spouse is the higher earner. I had an affair in 2015 and we are reconciling. My BW went scorched earth on me and filed before she even confronted me. I fought for us, did the work and now I’m fortunate to still be here with her and our kids. I’m grateful every day for this chance.

Anyway, my BW has an iron clad post-nup drawn up as part of our reconciliation. I didn’t sign it however, as our money has been combined since we first moved in together. Reconciliation is hard, hard work for both of us and there are some days where I’m not 100% sure that we’re gonna make it. I promised her that if she gave us a chance and we couldn’t work through it in the 2-5 years that the experts say it takes, that I would file and leave if that’s what she needed from me.

She also knows that if we ever did eventually split, that I would do the right thing and follow the terms of her document, even though I didn’t sign it. It would be the right thing to do given our circumstances. I have no interest in hurting her financially and she has my word on that.

So yes, I do think that infidelity should factor into divorce settlements. The reality is though, people just can’t work these matters out on their own so the rules are what they are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#20 ·
I'd still say yes, adultery should count.

On divorce in general, a couple hood friends of ours were getting a divorce some years ago and the alimony went for basically the former Ws party fund.

I remember joking with DW if we ever get divorced I'd quit my job and give everything away before I'd ever pay her a red cent, she's an adult, I'm an adult, and everyone should be given their opportunity to live and support themselves according to decisions made.
 
#21 ·
I think a lot of people are not questioning the morality, but rather the practicality. Infidelity is extremely difficult to prove one way or the other. Situations can be very complex / messy about what exactly constitutes adultery.

I guess as the full surveillance state develops, those problems will go away
 
#23 ·
"Because it shows that the WW willingly replaced the BH with the OM.

So if the WW, XWW, needs money than see needs to get it from her
OM. After all she is allowing the OM to be mining in her "tunnels".
I assume all three "tunnels" that she owns."

LOL....and if HE, THE HUSBAND, is the one cheating?
 
#26 ·
I agree totally the fact that you can commit adultery and get away with it makes a complete mockery out of marriage.
I'm from the UK and if i want to start divorce proceedings against my wife who cheated on me and is now living with her new man it will cost me twice as much as her if i'm the one who puts in for the divorce whereas you would think that she should be responsible for all the court costs as she's the one who cheated i find the whole thing absurd.
 
#27 ·
These issues wouldn't BE issues if people stayed single, and just lived together. There are few real advantages to marriage, yet many real drawbacks due to the legalities involved.
 
#28 ·
Yes!

More especially in regard to matters of child custody, child support, and division of community assets!

But most states have written their laws to make infidelity a moot issue!
 
#30 ·
The core problem here is that adultery is nearly impossible to prove, and punitive legal punishments for it don't do any good.

Listen, you probably know my stance on cheating. But having it alter a fair split in a divorce isn't the way to go at all, and that's coming from a dude that got cheated on and who's wife took nearly everything.

How do you prove an affair? Even if you get photos or something, how do you prove that it wasn't an open marriage or something?

Is it cheating if you're separated? Is it cheating if one person says they are leaving and then cheats that night, and the other person still wants to work on it?

What is cheating? P in V? Kissing? Sexting? When would it cross a legal threshold? What happens if the husband has P in V with someone else, but the wife gives her boyfriend a BJ? Is that the same? How would that adjust the asset distribution? What if the wife cheated once, but the husband then cheated 100 times? What does that do?

And even if you could deal with the things above, what's the point? It's not going to stop anyone from cheating. Hell, when people got stoned for cheating, people still did it. People will just hide it even more.

Just divorce, split your assets, and move on.
 
#31 ·
We may not look at it this way, but marriage is only a legal arrangement, nothing more. We pour our emotions into weddings and I do's, but the state doesn't. It only needs your signature and a witness.

The state therefore does not look at your divorce as an emotional event either, simply a legal one.

Who did what to who during the marriage is irrelevant *legally* to a divorce. Deciding how the couple will split their assets and custody is the only thing a divorce does. The law is about the law only and not about emotions.

Your emotions about the pain from a divorce need to be handled with care by other types of professionals. Because that's not what judges are for.
 
#33 ·
I personally think that the fact there are no consequences for adultery makes a complete mockery out of being married. Here in the UK if i want to divorce my wife who committed adultery it would cost me twice as much as it would her just because i initiate the divorce when surely to god the person who committed adultery should have to pay all the court costs.....it just doesn't make sense.
 
#35 · (Edited)
My personal opinion, which I really wish many governments would accept and put on their statutes, is that:
As soon as adultery is alleged, all parties involves should be tested for known STIs and if it is found that adultery took place and an STI was transmitted to the spouse, or could have been transmitted to the spouse, the adulterer should automatically qualify for a death sentence but only after a court hearing.

It should be law that before anyone starts a new relationship, they must officially end the last one whether through registering a separation or getting a divorce. If they fail to do that then a minimum sentence of say 15 years in prison should be expected.

It should also be unlawful to have sex with a married person whether they initiate it or not and a minimum sentence of say 2 years in prison should be imposed on offenders.
It should also be an offence to have sex with someone you are not married to without using contraception and having proof of such. to avoid using contraception the two should show evidence that they discussed and agreed that they want a baby and both accept responsibility for the baby of it comes.

All citizens who are above the age of 14 must study and pass a parenting course before they are allowed to marry or to agree to have a baby. Failure to comply should result in a minimum of 5 years prison term.

Pregnancy should be good evidence of non-compliance with the law and after a DNA test on the baby, the state should be able to pick up those due to go to prison.

This is my view and if I ever become a national leader, that is what I will campaign for the law to say.

There has never been a good reason for adultery
Nobody can do adultery by mistake
 
#36 ·
You're kidding right? Your suggestions sound like Taliban rule. What do you propose for murder? Should we resume hanging people in the public square? Basically you are saying you want to put roughly a third of the people in western countries in jail.

Assuming you are serious as a serial cheater I should be either dead or in jail. Which would leave my kids without a father, and my ex-wife with no financial support. I hope you have a solution for that in your plan. I do think having both parents in a kids life is better than one, even if that person cheated on you. People find a way to move past it and co-parent, just like they do when marriages end for other reasons. Really glad my ex-wife realizes that I do have a lot to offer my children despite the fact that I was a lousy husband when it came to fidelity. I will further add I am glad my mother didn't put my dad in jail when he cheated on her, not that it was an option. IMO what you are proposing is far more damaging to society and families than the cheating itself.
 
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