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post #136 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-08-2015, 02:32 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

Southbound....but some of us aren't actually complaining. We are just talking about our own modesty. I mean, as I have said here, I totally get why men look and can't help it, as I can't help it, either. So if I'm going out of my way to hide my nips, this is not because I think men are creepy and can't control themselves or anything like that. I just know they can't help but looking so if I am in a mode of operation where I do not want to be looked at like that (which still does not mean it is "wrong" to look at me or any woman), I take measures to make sure I'm not popping out of a shirt.

I love my body and I love women's bodies in general. Yes it is clear that nature/God designed us to notice each other and be inexplicably physically drawn to each other via visual cues. I love that fact, as it is a primal part of all of us and it feels really good (to me) to feel so animalistic that my body can draw my husband to me in that lusty way.

However, I don't always want to draw just any guy toward me that way, and that's ok, too. It doesn't mean I judge that random guy at all for the fact that he has that type of lusty visual triggers that I love in all of us.

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post #137 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-08-2015, 04:29 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

I don't know why but I can't stop staring at this thread.
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post #138 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-08-2015, 06:07 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

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Originally Posted by Faithful Wife View Post
Southbound....but some of us aren't actually complaining. We are just talking about our own modesty. I mean, as I have said here, I totally get why men look and can't help it, as I can't help it, either. So if I'm going out of my way to hide my nips, this is not because I think men are creepy and can't control themselves or anything like that. I just know they can't help but looking so if I am in a mode of operation where I do not want to be looked at like that (which still does not mean it is "wrong" to look at me or any woman), I take measures to make sure I'm not popping out of a shirt.

I love my body and I love women's bodies in general. Yes it is clear that nature/God designed us to notice each other and be inexplicably physically drawn to each other via visual cues. I love that fact, as it is a primal part of all of us and it feels really good (to me) to feel so animalistic that my body can draw my husband to me in that lusty way.

However, I don't always want to draw just any guy toward me that way, and that's ok, too. It doesn't mean I judge that random guy at all for the fact that he has that type of lusty visual triggers that I love in all of us.
Great post. It sounds like you fully understand, and I apologize that I came across as thinking all women felt that way. It does seem like the new argument among some is that people should be able to go half naked and nobody should notice, and I just had that on my mind.
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post #139 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-09-2015, 12:58 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

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Great post. It sounds like you fully understand, and I apologize that I came across as thinking all women felt that way. It does seem like the new argument among some is that people should be able to go half naked and nobody should notice, and I just had that on my mind.
It is actually simple observation that in societies where it is normal to be naked or half-naked, the naked body isn't automatically considered an object of sexual interest. Somehow, tribal women are able to go about their work and/or feeding their young without a constant stream of oglers and droolers.

This (unfortunately, IMHO) is very difficult in this society because we are so determined to hypersexualize women and make them all into nothing more than a collection of hot body parts. If you go to some place like a nude beach, where people are more accustomed to nudity, it is quite a bit easier. People can accept that not every instance of nudity is sexual, and just go about their business.

But mostly women are portrayed as such objects that our "goods" are free for the groping, even if we don't have them on "display."

And maybe you think it unreasonable for me to complain about this, but, I for one think it would be awesome if I could just be myself without having to always worry about someone thinking I'm public property.
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post #140 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-09-2015, 03:14 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

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It is actually simple observation that in societies where it is normal to be naked or half-naked, the naked body isn't automatically considered an object of sexual interest. Somehow, tribal women are able to go about their work and/or feeding their young without a constant stream of oglers and droolers.

This (unfortunately, IMHO) is very difficult in this society because we are so determined to hypersexualize women and make them all into nothing more than a collection of hot body parts. If you go to some place like a nude beach, where people are more accustomed to nudity, it is quite a bit easier. People can accept that not every instance of nudity is sexual, and just go about their business.

But mostly women are portrayed as such objects that our "goods" are free for the groping, even if we don't have them on "display."

And maybe you think it unreasonable for me to complain about this, but, I for one think it would be awesome if I could just be myself without having to always worry about someone thinking I'm public property.
I don't think it's unreasonable for you to complain if guys are freely groping you every time you leave the house and always having to worry about feeling like public property; I guess that is miserable. I don't know where you live, but it's not quite that way around here; however, men do seem to still be attracted to the female body where i live.

I suppose people could become more accustomed to anything with more exposure, but I often wonder what the purpose would be with some things. I'm not sure i want to get to the place that a nude female body sparks the same reaction within me as looking at the cereal display in the supermarket.

Last edited by southbound; 08-09-2015 at 03:18 PM.
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post #141 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-09-2015, 03:14 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

I have no idea why nipple show through has become such a bad thing. When my mom was teen, bras made woman's breasts look like two cones bolted on her chest. In my teens bra created a more natural look, (thanks hippies and bra burners). Now it's back to an unnatural look. I remember in jr. high and high school no one wanted to be caught wearing a padded bra. It meant you were trying be something you weren't. I personally like a bra that gives me a natural look and unfortunately it's really hard to find them these days. I think 90% of the bras are thickly padded and push up. When I wear them I feel like I'm wearing a bullet proof vest and when my husband gropes, he looks at me like "WTH?", lol. I accepted a long, long time ago that men were going to look at my chest, there's nothing I can do about it and I wasn't going to hide myself because of it. If my "headlights" are on, oh well.
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post #142 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-09-2015, 04:36 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

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I have no idea why nipple show through has become such a bad thing. When my mom was teen, bras made woman's breasts look like two cones bolted on her chest.
Ha! I remember those! When I was younger, the only bras in my size were these hideous things with acres of material, and bones or wire embedded in them, torture devices I was told were "essential for support".

Now it's almost impossible to buy anything that doesn't have an entire pillow stuffed into it.

Most bras deserve to be burned, IMHO.
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post #143 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-09-2015, 04:47 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

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I don't know why but I can't stop staring at this thread.
For some reason this scene keeps hovering in my head with this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAxPwHXi4PM
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post #144 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-09-2015, 08:51 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

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It is actually simple observation that in societies where it is normal to be naked or half-naked, the naked body isn't automatically considered an object of sexual interest. Somehow, tribal women are able to go about their work and/or feeding their young without a constant stream of oglers and droolers.
Tribal African women aren't worried about ogling and drooling. They're worried about rape. Rape rates in most of Africa are orders of magnitude worse than anywhere else in the world. It's considered a cultural norm, "the way men are."

The Western World just buries its collective heads in the sand on the entire subject because there are no good answers on how to deal with it.

http://www.voanews.com/content/activ...n/1785737.html
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post #145 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-09-2015, 09:01 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

The article you linked does not discuss rape that happens to tribal people by tribal people. Your article is talking about the big cities, and even in the congo, they are saying the rampant rape is occurring from marauding combatants. This is not the same thing. When tribal people are undisturbed by outside persons, rape is not an issue. The point being that tribal women walking about naked does not incite men in their tribe to rape them.

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post #146 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-09-2015, 09:54 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

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It is actually simple observation that in societies where it is normal to be naked or half-naked, the naked body isn't automatically considered an object of sexual interest. Somehow, tribal women are able to go about their work and/or feeding their young without a constant stream of oglers and droolers.

This (unfortunately, IMHO) is very difficult in this society because we are so determined to hypersexualize women and make them all into nothing more than a collection of hot body parts. If you go to some place like a nude beach, where people are more accustomed to nudity, it is quite a bit easier. People can accept that not every instance of nudity is sexual, and just go about their business.

But mostly women are portrayed as such objects that our "goods" are free for the groping, even if we don't have them on "display."

And maybe you think it unreasonable for me to complain about this, but, I for one think it would be awesome if I could just be myself without having to always worry about someone thinking I'm public property.
Are you really sure about that? Have you been in those villages observing half naked women going about their business day in day out?

Also think about the prevalence of female genital mutilation. Maybe African women aren't constantly hypersexualised because of them have been desexulaised anyway.

What I found at university is that the guys from Africa were extremely aggressive in the way that they dealt with their female classmates. I and other women had no interest in dating them. Would that be because we were hiding our breasts and nipples under layers of cloth each day? Or if we had been like our African sisters and let it all hang out, those guys would not have been so forward with us?
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post #147 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-09-2015, 10:46 PM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

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The article you linked does not discuss rape that happens to tribal people by tribal people. Your article is talking about the big cities, and even in the congo, they are saying the rampant rape is occurring from marauding combatants. This is not the same thing. When tribal people are undisturbed by outside persons, rape is not an issue. The point being that tribal women walking about naked does not incite men in their tribe to rape them.

Well, that's one article. I understand that AIDS is rampant in most parts of Africa. Women can't get their sex partners to wear condoms. I would call that rape.

Who cares if they can let their tits hang out? AIDS doesn't.
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post #148 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-10-2015, 02:03 AM
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Well, that's one article. I understand that AIDS is rampant in most parts of Africa. Women can't get their sex partners to wear condoms. I would call that rape.

Who cares if they can let their tits hang out? AIDS doesn't.
The point Always Alone made was about tribal people. Most people in Africa are not tribal people and the article was not about tribal people. The rape, AIDS and lack of condoms you are talking about in Africa have literally nothing to do with Always' point. And yes, there has been a lot of documentation about real tribal people and their nudity alone does not cause rape by the men in their tribes....which actually *was* Always' point.

Are you trying to argue that seeing nipples does in fact cause rape?
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post #149 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-10-2015, 09:02 AM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

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The point Always Alone made was about tribal people. Most people in Africa are not tribal people and the article was not about tribal people. The rape, AIDS and lack of condoms you are talking about in Africa have literally nothing to do with Always' point. And yes, there has been a lot of documentation about real tribal people and their nudity alone does not cause rape by the men in their tribes....which actually *was* Always' point.

Are you trying to argue that seeing nipples does in fact cause rape?
No.

Are you trying to argue that societies that allow women to regularly expose their top half have a better deal for women overall?
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post #150 of 239 (permalink) Old 08-10-2015, 09:31 AM
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Re: Bras, Feminism and Nipples

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No.

Are you trying to argue that societies that allow women to regularly expose their top half have a better deal for women overall?
My point was extremely simple: nudity isn't necessarily sexual invitation, and isn't necessarily sexual at all. It's just bodies, we all have them, and it really isn't that big a deal.

The meanings and fears we have with respect to partial nudity or erect nipples has more to do with our culture than with our nature. Some studies have shown, for example, that heterosexual women in this culture are more likely to see female breasts as sexual/sexualized than are heterosexual men in a culture where nudity is commonplace.

I mean, how sad is it that women are actually worried about whether someone can see if our nipples are erect? And that we end up wearing giant pillows over our breasts so that we can simultaneously pretend to have boobs 3 cups larger AND that they are just Barbie breasts -- don't worry kiddos, no actual real body parts here, just some plastic bumps.
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