Who should pay on dates? - Page 26 - Talk About Marriage
The Men's Clubhouse Talk about life's dilemmas.

User Tag List

 904Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #376 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 04:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 7,929
Re: Who should pay on dates?

I think dates should be designed to enjoy time together, not to show off. Its possible to have lots of fun without spending much money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tillaan View Post
That's actually a great way to look at it. Anyone who wasn't interested in a few cheap first dates was just after a free ride/meal/night out and you have saved yourself time and money by not going on more dates with them. There's too many, from what my dating friends tell me, out there on the dating sites to waste time and money on dinners for the first few dates if not longer.

What are everyone's thoughts on dates continuing to be relatively inexpensive. Such as home cooked dinners, lower end family restaurants, or a night out after dinner time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
uhtred is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #377 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 04:17 PM
Member
 
Maricha75's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,290
Re: Who should pay on dates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy1001 View Post
Paranoid much lol.When I dated I always put my dates needs first.Whether we had sex or not I always made sure she had a great time and I paid for everything.I,should explain that this was in my early to mid twenties and I wasn't looking to settle down and neither were mu dates.
I don't think he is paranoid at all. It's nice that you, ypurself, were a decent guy, whether the date ended with sex or not. But, what @uhtred is talking about is the other side of the coin. I didn't deal with men of the sort he described, personally. However, I can't even begin to count how many of my friends and family DID run into that sort of person while dating. It's true. Those who are truly the worst more often are able to appear to be the greatest. Why do you think the saying "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is" exists??


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

You can use the 2x4 without adding nails to it.
Maricha75 is offline  
post #378 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 04:19 PM
Member
 
Tillaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: South West
Posts: 629
Re: Who should pay on dates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
I think dates should be designed to enjoy time together, not to show off. Its possible to have lots of fun without spending much money.


10 years of supporting a family of 4 now 5 on a single income. Fun on a budget is something I know very well lol. My challenge will be not coming off super cheap.

My interest in the topic at hand is in the perception of not the practicality of budget dates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tillaan is offline  
post #379 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 05:01 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 7,929
Re: Who should pay on dates?

Yes, I know women who were basically seduced by players who did a wonderful impression of being caring and romantic. The seemed more caring and romantic that men who really were that way but didn't put on a show.

Not being biased here, there are also women who seduce and use men, and men who fall for their trickery as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maricha75 View Post
I don't think he is paranoid at all. It's nice that you, ypurself, were a decent guy, whether the date ended with sex or not. But, what @uhtred is talking about is the other side of the coin. I didn't deal with men of the sort he described, personally. However, I can't even begin to count how many of my friends and family DID run into that sort of person while dating. It's true. Those who are truly the worst more often are able to appear to be the greatest. Why do you think the saying "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is" exists??


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
uhtred is offline  
post #380 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 05:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by jld View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkingWife View Post
I was searching for another post of yours and just saw this one for the first time. Yes. I am very grateful to feminism for all the freedom and choices I have. But it does have a down side.

Speaking in generalities, when you take a woman's natural instinct to nurture and care for others and desire for "purpose" - and for some of us, tendency to defer to others and desire to be seen as responsible and be loving and generous, etc. And you take a man's tendency to live in the moment and for many be perfectly content as long as he's having a good time (less need for life to be "meaningful" in the same way.) And you instill in women that they must be independent, you often end up with financially successful women who are taking care of men who never really gets it together, and why should he? His life is going just fine.

There's a reason it used to take a shotgun to get a guy to marry the girl he knocked up. LOL. Men will rise to the occasion almost always - but it has to be expected of them. Their instinct is to drink beer and play games... ;-)

There are a lot of ways I think feminism is a two sided sword. It's like the internet - It has so many benefits, I've got it and I won't give it up! But it also has unintended consequences that can be very damaging. It would be very easy for me to blame feminism on some of the worst mistakes I've made in my life, but ultimately, they were my choices and I will never really know how I would have handled those choices if I was raised in a different era. I might have made even worse decisions.
It would be interesting to do a thread on this. As grateful as I am for feminism, I definitely think it can be twisted to work against women.

If I start one, I will let you know.
I would be very interested in this topic!

As to the idea that men "live in the moment", I have to kindly disagree with that notion. Many men, especially myself, are quite forward thinking. I'm only 37, but I'm taking every step I can now to ensure my retirement (I'm planning around the age of 63) is a good one. My daughter is only 9, but I'm already planning how to pay for her college (all on my own btw, my xWW doesn't plan anything whatsoever and I am not expecting her to help).

This is why I reject the notion that a man must pay by default; I'm looking ahead and deducing what things would be like down the road. If she has that expectation now, what else is this fully capable and able-bodied person going to just be"expect" me to provide? How much harder am I going to have to work to keep up with her material expectations? What would my life be like in 5 years being partnered with a person who has this attitude?

It ended in infidelity and divorce. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

What I find lacking in this conversation is this: if men are obligated to pay, then what are women obligated to do? Where is the reciprocity?
musicftw07 is offline  
post #381 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
lovelygirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tirana, Albania
Posts: 2,359
Re: Who should pay on dates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsAldi View Post
Walking was just an idea for a date.

Can you explain please what is the double standard is?

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk
You were replying to one of @NextTimeAround 's post when she mentioned the dinner-date and you said that walking can be just fine, because it's not about food.

And I'm saying that when your date chooses to have just a walk with you and while dating other girls he takes them out to dinner, that's a double standard. On one girl he spends money and on the other he doesn't...and if he's not willing to spend money on you (while he did on others) then he's simply not being fair.

sokillme: *People cheat because of their nature, not because of their circumstance.*
Davelli0331: If a GNO, or alcohol, or an attractive coworker, or a past flame on FB were all that were needed for someone to cheat, then I think that person had that defect in their integrity all along. All they ever lacked was the opportunity to act on their lack of integrity and the circumstances required to rationalize it to themselves.
lovelygirl is offline  
post #382 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 06:13 PM
Member
 
EllisRedding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Valhalla (Or the Northeast USA)
Posts: 9,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovelygirl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsAldi View Post
Walking was just an idea for a date.

Can you explain please what is the double standard is?

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk
You were replying to one of @NextTimeAround 's post when she mentioned the dinner-date and you said that walking can be just fine, because it's not about food.

And I'm saying that when your date chooses to have just a walk with you and while dating other girls he takes them out to dinner, that's a double standard. On one girl he spends money and on the other he doesn't...and if he's not willing to spend money on you (while he did on others) then he's simply not being fair.
I fail to see the double standard. So where does it end, you could then argue if he takes one date to a more expensive place than you he is not being fair? Are we now to compare every date to figure out if you are getting the real deal? Once again, maybe he felt that going with you for a walk was more intimate, maybe he felt it is a better way to get to know you...
EllisRedding is offline  
post #383 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 06:55 PM
Member
 
Tillaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: South West
Posts: 629
Re: Who should pay on dates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
Not being biased here, there are also women who seduce and use men, and men who fall for their trickery as well.

Lol I married one. Don't bother asking how that worked out because it didn't. But she at this stage of our divorce routinely goes out and finds guys to buy her drinks all night and when they stop buying she moves on to the next one. I only know this because a friend's wife went out with her one night last year and was disgusted by her behavior.
She is also very proud of her ability to do this and I've heard her bragging to her friends in school (all ten years younger and she needs to feel cool) that she can still do this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tillaan is offline  
post #384 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 07:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,798
Re: Who should pay on dates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovelygirl View Post
You were replying to one of @NextTimeAround 's post when she mentioned the dinner-date and you said that walking can be just fine, because it's not about food.

And I'm saying that when your date chooses to have just a walk with you and while dating other girls he takes them out to dinner, that's a double standard. On one girl he spends money and on the other he doesn't...and if he's not willing to spend money on you (while he did on others) then he's simply not being fair.
I would not call it a double standard. I would say that if you have that kind of information about this guy, then you have an idea as to where you are prioritised on his dating ladder.

As they say, knowledge is power.
NextTimeAround is offline  
post #385 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 07:13 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 7,929
Re: Who should pay on dates?

I'm a guy so maybe its different, but I'd think it was great if a woman I wanted to date said she wanted to go for a walk rather than dinner. In a lot of ways its a better environment to get to know someone. Quiet (if it is walking in a park / woods, not city), no constant interruptions from waiters bringing food, menus etc.

Walking in the outdoors is one of my favorite things to do. After a couple of walking dates I might see if she wanted to go for a walk in the Alps or Norway or maybe Patagonia.





Quote:
Originally Posted by NextTimeAround View Post
I would not call it a double standard. I would say that if you have that kind of information about this guy, then you have an idea as to where you are prioritised on his dating ladder.

As they say, knowledge is power.
uhtred is offline  
post #386 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 07:45 PM
Member
 
MrsAldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 3,623
Re: Who should pay on dates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovelygirl View Post
And I'm saying that when your date chooses to have just a walk with you and while dating other girls he takes them out to dinner, that's a double standard. On one girl he spends money and on the other he doesn't...and if he's not willing to spend money on you (while he did on others) then he's simply not being fair.
Thank you for answering my question.
To be honest, I wouldn't care about what a guy has spent on some previous woman, she's old news and in his past.

My first dates with my now husband were pretty cheap (McDonald's) but he has spoiled me a lot since then.
Yeah he may have spent more money on first dates before me but those women are ancient history now and he's in love with me and if I want something he will walk to the ends of the earth to get it for me.

It may be a double standard but that's only if you place your value/worth in monetary terms.

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk
MrsAldi is offline  
post #387 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 08:47 PM
Member
 
Maricha75's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,290
Re: Who should pay on dates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllisRedding View Post
I fail to see the double standard. So where does it end, you could then argue if he takes one date to a more expensive place than you he is not being fair? Are we now to compare every date to figure out if you are getting the real deal? Once again, maybe he felt that going with you for a walk was more intimate, maybe he felt it is a better way to get to know you...
Plus, if you had long conversations prior to that first date, it would be known that a long walk (or even a picnic) would be preferable. And, by choosing this particular activity, rather than spending a lot of money in a restaurant, the man is showing he pays attention to what SHE wants, rather than trying to impress with fancy restaurants.

I, personally, wouldn't care if dinner was Taco Bell followed by a walk on the beach. I would prefer it, actually, over a 5 Star restaurant. And, yes, I would make that known beforehand. I wouldn't be comfortable at such an establishment. If a man took me there, after I made my feelings known, there would be no second date.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

You can use the 2x4 without adding nails to it.
Maricha75 is offline  
post #388 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 09:29 AM
Member
 
Holdingontoit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: In the woods
Posts: 2,341
Re: Who should pay on dates?

I know I will get flames for this, but here goes.

Ladies, please remember, if you insist on men always paying for dates, you are perpetuating women being paid less in the workplace. If men need to be able to pay for dates to get access to "high quality" women, they will be more motivated to maximize their income than women will be. Trust me, no matter how motivated your daughter (or mine) is to buy new shoes or a house or save for retirement, my son (and yours) is even more motivated to get all that plus a hot date on Saturday night. If increasing earnings is a primary way to increase SMV, then males will prioritize work success over friendship, leisure, household chores, childcare, etc. In the end, they will out earn females - because they have to do so to gain access to desirable partners. So if you tell your daughters to insist that guys pay on dates, also tell them not to complain when they don't make as much as the guy down the hall. He probably pushed for it harder than they would feel comfortable doing.

When you can see it coming, duck!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Holdingontoit is offline  
post #389 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 09:54 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,798
Re: Who should pay on dates?

I can't think of any situation in which the guy either before or after had hinged his payment of anything to having sex with him.

Even in college, guys were more careful to just invite you over to their place or for them to come to your place.

So I guess I am operating in a world different from a quite a few others around here.

but what I have found, is that if you offer to at, go dutch, help pay whatever, or even cheerfully accept the cheaper option of a more casual restaurant, I am then (smirkily) called a "cheap date" and I don't get the feeling that was meant as a compliment.

If men would like for women to (help) carry the can, then why do they shoot themselves in the foot so often?
NextTimeAround is offline  
post #390 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 09:56 AM
jld
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 20,525
Re: Who should pay on dates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdingontoit View Post
I know I will get flames for this, but here goes.

Ladies, please remember, if you insist on men always paying for dates, you are perpetuating women being paid less in the workplace. If men need to be able to pay for dates to get access to "high quality" women, they will be more motivated to maximize their income than women will be. Trust me, no matter how motivated your daughter (or mine) is to buy new shoes or a house or save for retirement, my son (and yours) is even more motivated to get all that plus a hot date on Saturday night. If increasing earnings is a primary way to increase SMV, then males will prioritize work success over friendship, leisure, household chores, childcare, etc. In the end, they will out earn females - because they have to do so to gain access to desirable partners. So if you tell your daughters to insist that guys pay on dates, also tell them not to complain when they don't make as much as the guy down the hall. He probably pushed for it harder than they would feel comfortable doing.
He probably would've pushed harder anyway. That's what my husband learned in his MBA program. They were told that men ask for and expect raises and promotions, while women are much less likely to do so.

And, to be clear, a woman should not insist a man pay. If he does not do it of his own free will, that is already valuable information about him.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
jld is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Husband's double dates newme2017 General Relationship Discussion 94 03-18-2017 10:29 PM
Mothers that don't pay child support. Quadronos The Family & Parenting Forums 8 05-02-2016 04:51 PM
Wife got upset I would pay hair stylist IrishQ Financial Problems in Marriage 7 04-07-2016 05:00 AM
Joint checking for my pay, her own checking for her pay wanttolove Financial Problems in Marriage 50 02-08-2016 12:58 PM
Is systematic discrimination in pay against women a possibility? tech-novelist The Men's Clubhouse 49 01-21-2016 07:16 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome