Who should pay on dates? - Page 33 - Talk About Marriage
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post #481 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 10:43 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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I didn't get laid either.☹️
I'm guessing her mother disapproved?

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post #482 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 10:55 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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I'm guessing her mother disapproved?
She really was beautiful though.sigh.
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post #483 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 11:35 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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It seems like you're suggesting that your level of payment on a date should be based on your date's income, not trends across individuals? Realize that you don't know with certainty the earnings of your date, or that of most other women. It's private information. Given that uncertainty, I would argue that what people generally believe about men's pay vs. women's pay is somewhat relevant.
I think in most situations you can assess a person's career level and income group based on their age, how they carry themselves and where you meet them or through initial conversation, right? If you pick up a woman working at Starbucks that's one thing compared to if you met a woman at a finance convention or the CPA society meet and greet. If you're older and established and you pursue younger women who are new in their careers again that's one thing, you should probably pay. I think we can discern which women are more than capable of contributing to the mutual beneficial courting process if that's what you're going for.

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All of this aside, I stand my ground with my change of mind over who should pay on dates. On average, for the best outcome, the guy should pay. I'm hard pressed to believe that any one dude in the developed world who stops paying for his dates is going to start any kind of revolution for the whole of men. Guys should maximize their payoff on an individual level by paying.
You know what I've learned to respect women for their ability to collectively set standards and as a group commit. They know the expectation of full financial contribution is nothing more than unilateral compensation but it's something the majority refuse to disassociate with. They can do this because men are encouraged to think individually since they're in competition with each other over what's perceived as the same resource. Men would rather be disadvantaged and maintain a perception of superiority to other men than be emancipated and empathize as a brotherhood.

Maximizing your payoff I would say is contingent on what you value as a man. If the payoff is a statistically low probability of connecting emotionally to a woman after being strung along literally and figuratively putting up all the risk with no gauranteed payoff then sure. But to encourage a dating environment where men can set barriers and have fair expectations in society which has taken away all of their gender based balancing benefits, we need more brainpower than for the best outcome assumptions. That includes treating ourselves better and having others do the same.

Last edited by Real talk; 04-27-2017 at 11:50 AM.
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post #484 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 11:35 AM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

@Andy1001

How did you feel, both consciously and subconciously about the date? Did you feel honored that you were "pre approved?"

Did you think about being on better behavior with her and than with other women?

Was it your decision not to see her again? If so, why?
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post #485 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 12:07 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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@Andy1001

How did you feel, both consciously and subconciously about the date? Did you feel honored that you were "pre approved?"

Did you think about being on better behavior with her and than with other women?

Was it your decision not to see her again? If so, why?
To be honest I thought it was hilarious that she would have to ask her mom could she go on a date.She was at least twenty four and had her own apt.I think her parents were probably paying for it though.She told some other colleagues we were going out and the next day one of the partners rang me and asked me how it went.I asked him why it interested him so much and he said almost every man in the building had asked her out but she had refused.I never mentioned her calling her mom and just said we had a good time.She told me she went home every weekend so couldn't date so we agreed it wasn't going anywhere.
As to behaviour,I had this little worry that Tony Soprano or one of his buddies was going to appear an inquire about my intentions towards his daughter.

Last edited by Andy1001; 04-27-2017 at 01:08 PM.
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post #486 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 12:08 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

Part of this seems strange to me, but maybe its because I haven't dated since the late cretaceous.

Whether or not anything else happens, a date with a nice woman is itself a fun thing to do and worth far more than the cost of dinner. If I paid the whole thing and we never got together again, it still would be a lot of enjoyment for the money spent.

If it went really horribly, then the loss of money wouldn't be a big deal in comparison to a miserable evening.


All this assumes that you are going somewhere appropriate to your income. I think taking a date somewhere you can't comfortably afford is never a good idea. Even if the date is successful, it sets up unrealistic expectations.
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post #487 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 12:42 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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I think in most situations you can assess a person's career level and income group based on their age, how they carry themselves and where you meet them or through initial conversation, right?
Not always. There's a lot of people who are young and dress like bums, but are highly educated and have good incomes. The way one carries themselves is perhaps a stronger indicator. What they say, how they act, etc. Even then it could be misleading. In university, I used to study with this woman who appeared to be super ditzy, but looks were really deceiving. She had a high GPA, and beyond school, has gone very far in her career. While I'm certain that being extremely attractive is not a disadvantage for her, she is undeniably smart, despite how she carries herself.

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You know what I've learned to respect women for their ability to collectively set standards and as a group commit. They know the expectation of full financial contribution is nothing more than unilateral compensation but it's something the majority refuse to disassociate with. They can do this because men are encouraged to think individually since they're in competition with each other over what's perceived as the same resource. Men would rather be disadvantaged and maintain a perception of superiority to other men than be emancipated and empathize as a brotherhood.
A very interesting perspective. I don't think women collectively set any standards, but rather, these seem to be set through historical trends, media, news, etc. The "standards" are a stable social equilibrium, the gender behaviors to which we have settled into that won't change, as long as men believe they should be disadvantaged and they should compete. If we didn't pay a gal's way, someone else would, right? And that someone might get further than us in the dating game. And that's reason for worry, because beautiful women are a scarce resource! Believing these things, we pay. But if that's the way the system works and if the system is not subject to easily change, and additionally, if there are no limiting budget constraints, why wouldn't we pay? Given the system, the man is best off if he pays.

I didn't like paying when I played the dating game, but likely if I paid more, on average I would've gotten further and the same applies for the typical guy. So guys, pay for your dates, if they'll allow it! And if you really want to pay your dues, get married. That's the ultimate unilateral compensation for any woman!

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But to encourage a dating environment where men can set barriers and have fair expectations in society which has taken away all of their gender based balancing benefits, we need more brainpower than for the best outcome assumptions. That includes treating ourselves better and having others do the same.
You know what, I think men and women should form gender unions. The more I think about this, men won't get fairness in dating unless we leverage collective bargaining to fight for our rights. Who's with me?! *crickets*

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post #488 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 12:46 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Whether or not anything else happens, a date with a nice woman is itself a fun thing to do and worth far more than the cost of dinner.
Absolutely. The memory of a good date should be featured as "priceless" in a Mastercard commercial. I don't really remember the bad dates, even if I paid more than I wanted. But the good dates... those were some memories.

It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house ~ Solomon
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post #489 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 12:52 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Part of this seems strange to me, but maybe its because I haven't dated since the late cretaceous.

Whether or not anything else happens, a date with a nice woman is itself a fun thing to do and worth far more than the cost of dinner. If I paid the whole thing and we never got together again, it still would be a lot of enjoyment for the money spent.

If it went really horribly, then the loss of money wouldn't be a big deal in comparison to a miserable evening.


All this assumes that you are going somewhere appropriate to your income. I think taking a date somewhere you can't comfortably afford is never a good idea. Even if the date is successful, it sets up unrealistic expectations.
That was the only criteria I had about asking for a second date.Did I enjoy the first one and did we have a laugh.I don't care if a woman looks like Charlize Theron, if I feel after the date that I should have stayed home I won't ask for another.Sex didn't come into it.
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post #490 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 12:57 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

So here is my most recent situation. Dated a woman for almost a month. It got fairly intense quickly and seemed good going forward. Halfway in was her birthday and I got tickets to see Phantom in NYC. She wanted to see it and I never had. That was 2 weeks ago. She wigged out and we ended things. I told her the tickets were hers and she should being her daughter. She said she felt bad since I had paid for most of everything (very true) and the tickets weren't cheap. I said ok, I'll use them.

Now, the tickets were originally for us, and I did pay for 90% of everything and I did offer them to her after the split. Is that legit that I am keeping them and will use them next weekend?
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post #491 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 01:12 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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Now, the tickets were originally for us, and I did pay for 90% of everything and I did offer them to her after the split. Is that legit that I am keeping them and will use them next weekend?
I would think so; you should get over the guilt and enjoy the show! Phantom is great, especially in New York. Touring show is not as good.

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post #492 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 02:20 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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So here is my most recent situation. Dated a woman for almost a month. It got fairly intense quickly and seemed good going forward. Halfway in was her birthday and I got tickets to see Phantom in NYC. She wanted to see it and I never had. That was 2 weeks ago. She wigged out and we ended things. I told her the tickets were hers and she should being her daughter. She said she felt bad since I had paid for most of everything (very true) and the tickets weren't cheap. I said ok, I'll use them.

Now, the tickets were originally for us, and I did pay for 90% of everything and I did offer them to her after the split. Is that legit that I am keeping them and will use them next weekend?
You bought them and actually never gave them to her so they are yours to do with as you please. There shouldn't even be a question about this. You should enjoy the show and find a different woman to bring.
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post #493 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 02:28 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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You bought them and actually never gave them to her so they are yours to do with as you please. There shouldn't even be a question about this. You should enjoy the show and find a different woman to bring.
Au contraire, I did give them to her. I mean, I printed them out, so I made a copy after the fact. I told her to go and she said she wouldn't feel right. I think that's all she deserves from me, a one time, you can take them, oh, no, ok, I have a use for them (let me add, she wigged out and I was completely on-board).
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post #494 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 02:34 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

Agreed. Go enjoy the show!
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post #495 of 683 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 03:44 PM
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Re: Who should pay on dates?

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This is a fascinating thread. I've been following it from the beginning and it's got me wondering. This seems like it could be a very interesting topic for one of those early dates as it covers so many aspects on relationships, equality, and expectations in one subject not to mention no one would see the topic coming and be prepared with answers. I'm curious if anyone else would agree you could potentially determine a lot about someone from how they responded to this subject.


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I do agree and think it's important for both sides of the argument. If you want to have an equal partner but they want you pay for all dates that tells you all you need to know. If you want to be paid for and the other person wants you to contribute then also tells you all you need to know.

This really could be one of the very first conversations you have with someone that tells you much of what you need to know about how a long term relationship would be .
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