If I have to read another retroactive jealousy thread I'm going to scream.
When did men become so fragile? Why is the male ego apparently so obsessed with our standing in our lover's past, or with our size and performance? For someone trying to be the "best" his partner has ever had, I cannot think of anything much more irritating to an SO than having to support this constant insecurity. It is the precise opposite of "sexy".
Women are doing this too, in my experience. Differently, but also.
I think there’s a lot of deep seated insecurity going on with our generation, possibly because everybody is replaceable. Or upgradable.
I think the marriage-industrial complex has a lot to do with it. Also tinder, ****** *******, normalization of cheating, and people marrying later.
Consumer culture as applied to relationships has to be a factor.
As does the rampant job insecurity. I mean, the gig economy essentially means lots of people have high levels of job insecurity. Tinder and LinkedIn are essentially the same thing in two different markets.
The men I talk to are primarily worried about physique and performance. The women about connection and compatibility. But the opposite also happens.
Hell, my wife just asked me a few weeks ago what my ex’s body felt like, and if I can tell the difference. And she is hyper secure in that department.
Fragile? It's too easy to dismiss the issue by saying that. Most of the threads where RJ has come on really strong were based more on the lies that went on beforehand than the comparisons that the conversations led to. In some case the RJ started with discoveries of very differing views of privacy. One person being completely open and honest and believing the other person was doing the same, only to find out very differently later on.
In most of these cases, I believe the appropriate answer from the partner who is concerned discussions of his or her past could lead to problems... well, either tell the potential partner it's not something you wish to discuss, or get the hell out of there because things aren't going to work.
RJ doesn't just happen out of the blue. There are usually signs early on that it might be an issue. If not, and if you've got a past where it could be an issue, then test for it. And, like I said, if it comes up, then it's in the best interest of both parties to end things. If you have to blame your partner for how they feel about something, they're probably not the right partner.
Added after seeing the "worried about her past sexual relationship" thread- I do see @Faithful Wife 's point regarding RJ in some cases. But not all.
Fragile? It's too easy to dismiss the issue by saying that. Most of the threads where RJ has come on really strong were based more on the lies that went on beforehand than the comparisons that the conversations led to.
Many men (and women) have a severe lack of self worth, and so rather than seeking validation from within, they seek it externally. This is not just an issue that men face, but it is one in which society doesn't offer a man with this issue much reinforcement.
They are meant to 'man up' and get on with it because that is what men are supposed to do. A lot of these people however, weren't given appropriate examples earlier in life about how to do this.
There is also the possibility that they have not had proper validation in their upbringing, and compensate by trying seek it elsewhere.
Many men (and women) have a severe lack of self worth, and so rather than seeking validation from within, they seek it externally. This is not just an issue that men face, but it is one in which society doesn't offer a man with this issue much reinforcement.
In all fairness, when it comes to your self-worth as a lover, isn't external validation soft of a requirement? My right hand thinks I'm a regular Casanova (left hand does NOT agree), but I would rather know what my spouse thinks.
One thing I like in the youth is they actually see men and women as similar.
As a middle aged man, it was perfectly normal to think that a man did not really have an emotional life. Men trying to live up to that, or thinking they should will make themselves worse.
If these things are mor eopen, it is probably good.
We accept that a man telling a woman that she is physically not good enough is abusive. Now, people see it the same way if a man is treated like that. Y'know, good.
If I have to read another retroactive jealousy thread I'm going to scream.
When did men become so fragile? Why is the male ego apparently so obsessed with our standing in our lover's past, or with our size and performance? For someone trying to be the "best" his partner has ever had, I cannot think of anything much more irritating to an SO than having to support this constant insecurity. It is the precise opposite of "sexy".
I don't know if it's a new thing... I remember when I was much younger, in middle/high school, at that age when you're starting to date. I wasn't interested in any of the boys who expressed interest in me... it was drilled into my head by my mom, my grandmothers, my aunts: you have to be very careful to let them down easy, because boys are very sensitive to rejection. You must never laugh at them, or make them feel like they are less than or not good enough, and do whatever you can to build them up while turning them down.
Boys/men, save for a few exceptions, have never been this kind when shooting me down. In fact, many of them have been downright cruel, either directly or by pulling crap like ghosting or whatever else. And they still do this as adults.
And yet, as a woman, I am still expected to be gentle because they are even more sensitive now, because some woman who came before me broke his heart because she cheated on him or walked out on him, or some other sob story. I can't tell you how many "sensitive" men with a "sob story" have later screwed me over and treated me badly. These days, I hear a sob story and I run the other way.
As a man over 70, I will provide a slightly different perspective.
As I have grown older, my T level dropped, that has resulted in my desiring to have my wife provide me with more emotional love It has also meant that I need more foreplay to have intense meaningful sex. I am much less into a quickie satisfying my needs than in my youth.
So the whole youth generational things just doesn't jib with my experience in aging. Perhaps after a certain point in life you look at and understand your own mortality and want more emotional meaning in your life. Perhaps it is all hormonal. whatever it is, yes, I have become more emotionally fragile as I get older and what a little more TLC in my relationship.
Granted I'm a little jaded because of my ex's intense need to overshare regarding his exes for use as an emotional weapon, but he'd probably say I had RJ.
Not true at all..... i was fine with him having a past just as i did. I was not fine with him living in it and not in the present with me. It got to the point where a lot of our conversations would end up with him referencing exes and often intimately.
Some cases of rj are tied to insecurity, but others are created by rude behavior.
I would say that in a lot of cases married couples were more of a solid team in times past where a W would want to continually be building up her H, helping his confidence not just in the bedroom but for each day when he went out if the home to make a living.
Her confidence in him, shown to him, helped him do his job, plow the fields, defend the home from harm, etc.
And a man still had to care for his family, helpful W or not, or he would appear a ragamuffin socially.
But my point is, I could see a Grandmother telling her daughter to bolster her H as it benefitted her, by having the H be a strong a Provider as he could to keep a roof over their head and food on the table.
And a man would still be expected to be so even if his W was a negative Nelly.
That's a double standard but that's the way many situations were.
For me, I was told by both males and females beginning in adolescence, the following:
1. Never ever tell a man anything other than that he's great, he's perfect and you don't want any other guy in any way. Tell him all the guys in your past were nothing compared to him and that you never got it good until you met him. Never ever notice another man or make any mention of any other man. Make your man believe you only have eyes for him.
2. Meanwhile, every man you are ever with will always fantasize about your hot friends and sisters, will always look at porn, and will never want you if you are fat (or don't have FITB in the right quantities). So you need to always look hot or he won't want you, but no matter how hot you are, he will still want every other hot woman who exists.
The double standard finally broke my head. So I just gave up on it all and decided to be as honest as men are. So if I see a hot dude, yeah I noticed, not gonna lie. If your brother is hot, yeah I noticed, not gonna lie. If you are getting fat, yeah I noticed, not gonna lie.
This way works much better for me.
It used to confuse me that women would talk so openly about protecting men's egos while men talked so openly about how they will never ever only want one woman. I don't know why women did that or put up with it.
I’ve always done #1 with every woman I’ve ever been serious with, and in fact that’s how I was taught to treat women.
Meanwhile, I’ve had many women, including 2 wives now, do the same as #2 to me with the genders reversed. I would always have a running list of who they think is hot, be that movie stars, porn stars, friends of mine, or friends of hers. And I was always told (and are still told) to just suck it up and be a secure man about it.
I have literally sat there at a restaurant with groups of couples, with the women running down every guy they’d do if they got the chance, and all the guys just looked at their shoes awkwardly and tried to not make a big deal about it. Any guy that does, gets berated for being controlling and insecure, because it’s just girls having fun.
Is RJ really that much of a problem outside of TAM though? I suppose its tough to say because perhaps my guy friends wouldn't exactly admit it to me. But I have a hard time believing any of my guy friends have this issue. There are some things that I feel are more prevalent on TAM, RJ is one of them. I am certainly not saying RJ doesn't exist. But the cases I see of it on TAM are somewhat extreme. I've seen cases where guys have been married for years and still have issues with it. I suppose I could understand trying to lean some things about the person your partner dated or was married to right before you. But we have guys on here reading diary entries from years before they even met their wives. I can't wrap my head around that at all.
My SIL berates my brother all the time in public and he just tries to laugh it off. He would never say anything negative about her in public. However, the things that she berates him about are real, he is lazy, and she does way more than he does around the house. They both know that she is in control.
I think that when women berate men in public it’s because of growing resentment and frustration of a problem that isn’t resolving.
I was also taught to always make a man feel like a man, and be gentle with their egos. To the extent of telling white lies to make them feel good. That’s how I want to be treated so I treat them that way.
I have experienced men not being so gentle with me. Telling me to wear more dresses and makeup. Wear more lingerie etc. men pointing out that my legs aren’t shaved. And when they are having trouble getting or staying hard or finishing... it subliminally is my fault. Of course no one ever said that to me, but when I am told to wear/do/act a certain way in the bedroom and I don’t... of course it makes me feel like it’s my fault. Especially when I know what kind of porn they watch or that I know they masterbate without problems.
I don't have a problem with my wife telling me who makes the grade. As long as mama brings her tail home to take our her sexual urges on me, I'll be the first to scroll to the latest Brad Pitt movie to make it happen.
I know I'm not the prettiest boy she ever dated. I'm not the largest. I am probably the best, but that's only because the sample size is so small and I've had a very long time to practice.
But what if I wasn't? Well then, I would like to know. In fact, I'd like to know in excruciating detail what it was I needed to improve on, so that even if I never became "The Best", I at least gave it the ol' college try.
My wife is not my best, and she knows it. Not because I ever made such an insensitive statement, but things can be inferred when you have to discuss why your expectations for your married sex life exceeded the reality. I think it used to bother her, but not so much any more. Coming to terms with "I am who I am" is an effective anxiety reducer.
To me the issue isn't whether I'm the best or you're the best....it's impossible to be the best at everything. The real question is do I make you happy enough that you have no interest in looking elsewhere?
If that answer is yes on both sides we're golden....and I might even feel good enough to make efforts to improve.
Part of it is because they notice that the intense love and physical fulfullment they felt when t first dating/married is replaced by something much less so as time goes by.
Every time their W does not orgasm or seems strained to do so or is dry is a black mark on their manhood. Same for the reduction in the types of sexual acts she will engage in.
At the same time they find out small details about their Ws sexuality which makes them believe they were never their Ws number one choice for sex. So the natural question is who was or who is their number one.
From the time boys enter elementary school they are implicitly or explicitly told that they are "less than" girls (boys are immature is the biggest culprit but the assumption that they are also up to no good "boys will be boys" doesn't help much either). It is also often implied that men are often given positions that rightfully belong to qualified women. OLD reinforces this "less than" somewhat (I'm going to mess up the vocabulary since I've only read about it) because it takes lots more attempts or swipes or whatever at a match for men than it does for women.
In a relationship there are some other cultural issues. Women have been outpacing male educational achievement since 94 or 95. For a quarter century women have been better educated, if not better paid. The culture still hasn't caught up to the possibility that a man's place might be in the home and he might have just as much to contribute there as he does outside the home. When reading articles about problems about in relationships, the clueless, emotionally stunted participant is almost always referred to as "he/him" while the long suffering, patient, and unheard spouse is "she/her". This sends the message that men are bad and likely hopeless at relationships in general.
Sexually, I don't think anyone would seriously imply that it is harder to bring a man to orgasm than it is a woman. Some of the surveys I've read have said that between 95% of men orgasm during sex while heterosexual women orgasm something like 65% of the time. The male percentage looks low to me. This imbalance leads to all kinds of side effects. Men kind of expect an orgasm to happen every single time. Women's motivation to have sex would be lower since they aren't enjoying it as much. Some men would get discouraged or, dare I say it, insecure. I've seen some threads here where the male SO doesn't orgasm or get hard a couple times and the reaction we see here is "what is wrong" and "I feel like a failure"? I understand the expectation that unless there is a medical condition men orgasm roughly every single time (because they do) but it is then a bit hypocritical to then criticize guys when they get worried when there is an unmet expectation roughly a third of the time.
I guess I have a different perspective of what my role in a relationship would be than some others here. I wouldn't ever discuss the attractiveness of another woman except in the most general and impersonal terms with someone I was dating. I would certainly not gush or talk about getting laid. The questions about whether clothes make you look fat or past lovers is less about clothes and lovers than it is about reassurance. The husband is going to be checking out the wife's ass in her jeans and not someone else's. The wife is going to be thinking about, having sex with, and emotionally connecting with the current husband and not previous (or future) lovers. In a committed relationship, you should be helping your partner's insecurities just as you do the other practical parts of life (chores, finances, etc). It might require professional help but it might just need the right kinds of reassurance and attention.
I treat my SO how I want to be treated. And how they treat me, may or may not alter how I treat them.
If you protest my ego and make me feel great about myself, then I’ll do the same to you.
For me if they are not being kind and protective of me, I just have to move on. I can't treat them the same because it makes me feel bad even if they are doing it to me. But I can certainly remove them from my life.
"My apologies for not addressing the autism idea. It’s not something her therapist, psychologist or MC believe is the case. Closest thing they’ve got is a dissociative issue which they all now believe to be from trauma."
Between her brain and her tongue. The way she talks to you, you may as well be her brother. Sorry, man. She's got no filter.
Generalizing here, but hey ... that makes things a whole lot easier. I've always tried to get my head around the concept of RJ being either; the case of a male that does NOT have a wholly integrated sense of self recognizing where any given partner has been intimately in the past, may in no way represent or correlate to where they are and how they feel now. Or ... this is straight up some kind of disorder.
I've never ever felt this way, so no I can't relate, but I do want to understand it. Primarily because I believe it is DESPERATELY unhealthy, both for the individual and the relationship.
In the case of deceit or lying about sexual history, I can certainly understand struggling with the trust paradigm. But in the case of a dude whose partner is sexually enthusiastic and engaged, and clearly expresses her satisfaction and love for her partner ... but he can't stop thinking about who's been in the saddle prior and how they rode? Or framing his mindset from the perspective of his value according to his partners feelings about him? It's got nothing to do with 'her' at that point.
That is nothing but destructive self-sabotage. It is a corrosive level of selfishness that I wonder if the individual can even see or acknowledge as selfishness. Which then to my mind lends itself to being a kind of disorder.
Bottom line, a well integrated man always appreciates acknowledgement by his partner, but he doesn't need it or crave it with the expectation he isn't going to get it. He KNOWS he is a good partner. And with that knowledge he can then determine if the person he is sharing his 'gifts' with, is worthy of them.
Our societal image is never lasting, and is never fairly offered.
And our image is expiration-date, sensitive.
We are revered and valuable for some limited period, in this, our given and our self-assessed likeness.
The expiration date can slip forward, to some point, normally lesser, but individually differing.
We are given a vague high point in societal measured beauty, a possibly kind mid-point, and a misty later point.
At last, our image is old, void and disparaged.
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