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post #631 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 02:55 PM
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Re: Charleston masacre

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I don't get your point? These are two separate issues.
Ok, Which renders most people dead in any given year? Confederate flags or urban violence? Hurt feelings or bullets? If I were going to concentrate on fixing a problem, I'd start with the problem that is killing people in ghastly numbers. If I had a basketball size hole in my boat and a pin hole, the pin hole wouldn't get most of my attention or effort. They could dig up every dead Confederate, remove every Confederate flag, hang every white segregationist and disarm every police officer and African Americans would still be the most frequently murdered people in the nation and by a substantial margin. They'd also have the highest unemployment rate. How is chasing Confederate boogers and haints doing anything to even slightly improve their lives?

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post #632 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 03:07 PM
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Re: Charleston masacre

There is a civil rights issue that some try hard to ignore. All murder is crime, by definition. And crime is generally an individual act.

But when someone kills another because of the color of their skin, and the reason for that animosity is perpetuated by an ingrained cultural hatred towards one race, it is a civil rights matter.

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post #633 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 03:25 PM
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Charleston masacre

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Ok, Which renders most people dead in any given year? Confederate flags or urban violence? Hurt feelings or bullets? If I were going to concentrate on fixing a problem, I'd start with the problem that is killing people in ghastly numbers. If I had a basketball size hole in my boat and a pin hole, the pin hole wouldn't get most of my attention or effort. They could dig up every dead Confederate, remove every Confederate flag, hang every white segregationist and disarm every police officer and African Americans would still be the most frequently murdered people in the nation and by a substantial margin. They'd also have the highest unemployment rate. How is chasing Confederate boogers and haints doing anything to even slightly improve their lives?

These are two separate issues, so I still don't get the point.
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post #634 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 03:27 PM
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Charleston masacre

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There is a civil rights issue that some try hard to ignore. All murder is crime, by definition. And crime is generally an individual act.



But when someone kills another because of the color of their skin, and the reason for that animosity is perpetuated by an ingrained cultural hatred towards one race, it is a civil rights matter.

Civil Rights that has to do with a confederate flag, if we consider the context of when it stated to fly on the S. Carolina Capitol grounds post civil war.
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post #635 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 03:27 PM
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Re: Charleston masacre

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If you're referring to the NJ woman who was stabbed by her ex while waiting for a permit. I've seen the story. Guns are rarely used to stop criminals, despite what gun advocates like to argue. And putting more guns in any domestic abuse situation just increases the risk of injury to the victim, not the perpetrator

http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf

I know the danger of putting any kind of report on here. Gun advocates either say that the stats are inaccurate, or can't be trusted as soon as they don't support their argument.
That link is full of crap. Many academic studies have been done by professors and US government agencies. All consistently show anywhere from hundreds of thousands to millions of legitimate self defense events with firearms every year in the USA.
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post #636 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 04:33 PM
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Re: Charleston masacre

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There is a civil rights issue that some try hard to ignore. All murder is crime, by definition. And crime is generally an individual act.

But when someone kills another because of the color of their skin, and the reason for that animosity is perpetuated by an ingrained cultural hatred towards one race, it is a civil rights matter.
Isn't the right to life a civil right? Hard to enjoy civil rights when you're dead. Unless you want to vote Democrat, dead people don't vote. They can't worship. They can't bear arms, own property, get married, engage in commerce. It is seriously your position that flying a flag (which is protected free speech under the 1st Amendment) is more of an infringement upon one's rights than blowing their head off?

If 500 people are murdered and one of them was killed in an alleged hate crime, how many are actually dead? How many of those 500 murders cause fear in the community? How many leave behind loved ones?

I have never investigated a hate crime murder but I have investigated quite a few murders of the standard variety. All the victims appeared to be equally having a bad day and none of them were ever coming back on this earth. Waving a stupid flag is a greater insult than raping someone for a few hours, slashing their throat, and leaving their dead body in a dumpster? If that is the case, the country has lost it's mind.
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post #637 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 04:38 PM
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Re: Charleston masacre

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These are two separate issues, so I still don't get the point.
I could be wrong, but I believe the point is that they are two separate issues; one is a very serious issue and the other is not; however, the focus seems to be on the less serious of the two as if it will take a huge bite out of crime if it is solved, and that happens a lot.

I'm sure the Baltimore incidents would have gotten more attention if they had found a Confederate flag in the mix.
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post #638 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 04:49 PM
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Re: Charleston masacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Boyd_Malvo

Lee Boyd Malvo (beltway sniper) initially planned to kill six white people every day for 30 days. Why wasn't he charged with a hate crime?
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post #639 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 04:54 PM
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Re: Charleston masacre

Bill Clinton signed into law the Arkansas bill to fly the Confederate flag there. Obviously he is a racist based on this action. We should erase every mention of Bill Clinton from public areas. And his wife was at his side as he did it, so she is automatically disqualified as a Presidential candidate, right?

Senator Byrd was a KKK leader. His name is on countless plaques, buildings, bridges, roads, etc. One of the perks of being a powerful Congressman. Let's pull his name off of all those memorials. No doubt he was racist.

Robert E. Lee freed his slaves before the beginning of the Civil War, so I am not convinced he fought the war for the sole purpose of keeping slavery legal. But General US Grant kept slaves during and even after the war. Whose memorials and statues should be defaced and removed?

All I'm saying is there should be consistent standards applied. Ignorance is on wide display in this country these days.
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post #640 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 04:58 PM
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Re: Charleston masacre

The Confederate Flag Needs To Be Raised, Not Lowered | VDARE - premier news outlet for patriotic immigration reform

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post #641 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 05:00 PM
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Re: Charleston masacre

Not a Tea Party, a Confederate Party | The Weekly Sift

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post #642 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 05:10 PM
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Re: Charleston masacre

The United States has a national flag that symbolizes an indivisible state from which secession is forbidden. The Confederate flag, in whatever variations, is a symbol of rebellion against federal authority. Slavery was only one cause of the Civil War but it was a primary cause whose importance grew as Lincoln impressed the nation with a sense of purpose.

The reasons for flying the Confederate flag now may not have anything to do with supporting slavery or discrimination. As the US absorbs Spanish speaking migrants, it is conceivable that parts of the US will seek to separate to avoid being assimilated by Latin American cultural and linguistic dominance.
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post #643 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 05:15 PM
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Charleston masacre

The civil war is over, the Union won. Why fly the confederate battle flag on any government grounds? I don't care about individuals or businesses, I'm talking about government sanctioning toward a confusing symbol.
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post #644 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 05:29 PM
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Re: Charleston masacre

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The civil war is over, the Union won. Why fly the confederate battle flag on any government grounds? I don't care about individuals or businesses, I'm talking about government sanctioning toward a confusing symbol.
The American Revolution and the War of 1812 are over and we won. Why is that racist British flag on your state flag? Here's the deal: Some things are state business. The voters in those states have the right to fly whatever suits their fancy over their state property and those who don't like it can lump it. They don't have to explain their motives to you. If they want to fly the Stars and Bars or a pair of nasty underwear, it's their business. I wouldn't want that Democrat flag flying in Nashville but if our elected representatives or our voters put it up the pole, I'd have to deal with it and I'd expect everyone else in the nation to respectfully deal with it as well. I don't tell your state how to manage it's affairs. You live there and presumably you vote there. I don't.

A flag is not confusing. It's cloth, it's rectangular. It flies from a pole and waves in the wind. It means whatever each individual thinks it means because it's a symbol. Since there is no Constitutional right nor any civil right nor even a rational expectation for any human to live on this earth without being offended, the fact that a symbol upsets some citizens isn't just grounds to remove it. To blow powder sugar up the behinds of others is not in my job description. Nobody is losing any sleep tossing and turning over worrying about what may offend me.
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post #645 of 711 (permalink) Old 07-13-2015, 05:31 PM
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Charleston masacre

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The American Revolution and the War of 1812 are over and we won. Why is that racist British flag on your state flag? Here's the deal: Some things are state business. The voters in those states have the right to fly whatever suits their fancy over their state property and those who don't like it can lump it. They don't have to explain their motives to you. If they want to fly the Stars and Bars or a pair of nasty underwear, it's their business. I wouldn't want that Democrat flag flying in Nashville but if our elected representatives or our voters put it up the pole, I'd have to deal with it and I'd expect everyone else in the nation to respectfully deal with it as well. I don't tell your state how to manage it's affairs. You live there and presumably you vote there. I don't.



A flag is not confusing. It's cloth, it's rectangular. It flies from a pole and waves in the wind. It means whatever each individual thinks it means because it's a symbol. Since there is no Constitutional right nor any civil right nor even a rational expectation for any human to live on this earth without being offended, the fact that a symbol upsets some citizens isn't just grounds to remove it. To blow powder sugar up the behinds of others is not in my job description. Nobody is losing any sleep tossing and turning over worrying about what may offend me.

The civil war is over.

At some point the British ended slavery even though it existed under the Stars and Stripes. They also ended imperial behavior and under the Union Jack no longer defended these policies. The same can be said of the Stars and Stripes in relation to slavery.

The confederacy fought to defend the institution of slavery. And later, after the civil war, was flown by groups that defended racial segregation and against civil rights. History is powerful.

Last edited by Ikaika; 07-13-2015 at 05:47 PM.
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