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post #121 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 07:14 PM
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Re: If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

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At that point the 1%, the GOP and other climate deniers will have figured a way to monetize the change in climate.

With sea levels rising there will be a need for massive construction projects like dikes in NYC and the eastern seaboard, putting I-95 on stilts or re routing it inland, figuring out how to save Miami from sinking and the DoD says 50% of our bases are in danger of rising water levels.

Bechtel, Halliburton, KBR and what-ever Erik Prince and the Devos family conjure up will lined up for trillions of dollars in contracts.



Then there will be action.

Itís ok, they will just build a big, beautiful wall so that no climate change can sneak in.


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post #122 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 10:48 PM
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Re: If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

Because the human limbic system has been around for 150 million years and the neocortex maybe 3 million.

This makes it easy to manipulate people and public opinion.

The phrase: The science isnít settled enabled big tobacco to finesse opposition for a nearly 50 year period AFTER the science was settled.

Big carbon has convinced humanity that:
1. nuclear power is too dangerous to pursue and
2. despite the arctic sea ice disappearing before our eyes and the oceans rising, climate change is just part of a normal cycle



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Right, because it is up to the accused to provide evidence rather than accuser...

This is what I donít get: you have 10 different sources claiming one thing, yet someone finds one fringe/conspiracy report that confirms their bias and takes this one report as gospel instead, ignoring everything else, including mainstream.
I notice this phenomena happens so much, but I donít understand why.


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post #123 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 12:21 AM
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Re: If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

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Just to clarify: are you saying that it is as easy for a black person to become a president as it is for a white?
Yes. I know it ain't what some would have us believe but Obama is the proof of the pudding. He was elected twice beating caucasians in the primary and the general elections. I fully expect there will be another black president withing the next two decades. You'll probably be around to see it. I likely won't but you'll remember what I said.

BTW, if you have 10 news outlets reporting one thing and 5 news outlet reporting another, all you have as far as I'm concerned is 15 news outlets I'm skeptical of.

"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.

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post #124 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 03:28 AM
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If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

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Yes. I know it ain't what some would have us believe but Obama is the proof of the pudding. He was elected twice beating caucasians in the primary and the general elections. I fully expect there will be another black president withing the next two decades. You'll probably be around to see it. I likely won't but you'll remember what I said.
I am still not sure what you are saying. You seem to be saying that the fact that you had ONE black president is proof that no racial bias exists anymore.
If thatís the case in your mind, then you should also be using the same logic for the other 44 out of 45 times, when no black president was selected (and argue that the other 44 times, the US was racist for not selecting a black president). See any problem with it?
The fact that you felt the need to point out that Obamaís race doesnít get him any extra miles in this context is weird to say the least however...
The truth is that as long as you have people denying that racism is still a problem, then life for the other groups will automatically be a lot harder than for everyone else.

I read a powerful piece once in the NY Times called ďthe heartbeat of racism is denialĒ.
I think you have to subscribe to read it but some quotes stuck with me:

ďOnly the racist lives by the heartbeat of denial. The antiracist lives by the opposite heartbeat, one that rarely and irregularly sounds in America ó the heartbeat of confession.Ē

ďThe principal function of racist ideas in American history has been the suppression of resistance to racial discrimination and its resulting racial disparities. Racist ideas are suppressive, rather than constructive, about leaving a particular racial hierarchy intact rather than building it in the first place. They are about silencing dissent rather than speaking an opinion. Racist ideas allow discrimination to proceed unimpeded; they do not initiate discrimination.Ē

I think a lot of people still either completely misunderstand or are not willing to admit what racism actually is or how it shows itself. Just to be clear Iím not calling anyone a racist. But certain type of thinking can lead one to the wrong place.

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BTW, if you have 10 news outlets reporting one thing and 5 news outlet reporting another, all you have as far as I'm concerned is 15 news outlets I'm skeptical of.

Thatís not the correct ratio. Itís usually more like 50 to 1 depends what it is. For climate change, I can find you 500 to 5 articles. And 4.5 of those, will be written by a flat earther...

Find me 5 independent reports or studies that make any of these other ridiculous assertions that are contrary to the mainstream, established facts.



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post #125 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 03:30 AM
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Re: If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

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Because the human limbic system has been around for 150 million years and the neocortex maybe 3 million.



This makes it easy to manipulate people and public opinion.



The phrase: The science isnít settled enabled big tobacco to finesse opposition for a nearly 50 year period AFTER the science was settled.



Big carbon has convinced humanity that:

1. nuclear power is too dangerous to pursue and

2. despite the arctic sea ice disappearing before our eyes and the oceans rising, climate change is just part of a normal cycle

Maybe it depends where one lives: I heard the Midwest can be quite chilly in the winter...in spite of all the global warming


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post #126 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 01:24 PM
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Re: If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

In all sincerity, people living coastal and just above sea level are soon to discover the difference between being anti-intellectual and anti-reality.

Iím not being snarky, many Americans have some real gripes with the professorial class, a few of which I share. But this isnít about who is saying what. A rising sea makes no distinctions.


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Maybe it depends where one lives: I heard the Midwest can be quite chilly in the winter...in spite of all the global warming


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post #127 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 02:41 PM
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Re: If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

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Big carbon has convinced humanity that:
1. nuclear power is too dangerous to pursue and
2. despite the arctic sea ice disappearing before our eyes and the oceans rising, climate change is just part of a normal cycle
Big carbon is the global cumulative decision to use a new plastic bottle every time to drink a "glass of water." Should now be referred to as a "plastic capsule of water." You know because it is clean, pure, cheap and easy.

We all recycle those bottles, but where do they end up? Have you ever seen for yourself where those plastic bottles go?

https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-...617-story.html

Is it really recyclable? Why do we have to send a plastic bottle all the way to Vietnam before it can be recycled? Can't we just recycle it at home or just stop using them? How many plastic bottles are on your desk as you read this? I count four on mine.

Big Carbon = You and me bro!

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post #128 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 04:03 PM
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Re: If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

I know it wonít happen, but to have a forum that discusses science as scientist would actually discuss it. So much misinformation or inaccuracies based on methodologies or timelines associated with disciplines.

But, I donít know how these recent discussions are related to how we see our current commander in chief as not being presidential compared to those of the past.

My input: lets just say Trump does not exactly fit the model of being presidential, but neither did Jackson, Truman or LBJ to name a few - in terms of their mannerisms. My biggest issue with Trump (in this current day and age), he panders waaaay too much to his base while being president. Pandering to the base during a campaign is done by all candidates. But continuing to do this through policies and rhetoric after being elected is not presidential nor does it speak of good leadership. We are a diverse country and to that it is difficult to speak to everyone. One should at least make the attempt on a regular basis.


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post #129 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 04:45 PM
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Re: If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

I will support any threads you wish to create where you define the rules of engagement up front.




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I know it wonít happen, but to have a forum that discusses science as scientist would actually discuss it. So much misinformation or inaccuracies based on methodologies or timelines associated with disciplines.

But, I donít know how these recent discussions are related to how we see our current commander in chief as not being presidential compared to those of the past.

My input: lets just say Trump does not exactly fit the model of being presidential, but neither did Jackson, Truman or LBJ to name a few - in terms of their mannerisms. My biggest issue with Trump (in this current day and age), he panders waaaay too much to his base while being president. Pandering to the base during a campaign is done by all candidates. But continuing to do this through policies and rhetoric after being elected is not presidential nor does it speak of good leadership. We are a diverse country and to that it is difficult to speak to everyone. One should at least make the attempt on a regular basis.


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post #130 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 04:49 PM
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Re: If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

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I will support any threads you wish to create where you define the rules of engagement up front.


Iím not going to start a thread on AGW because it will turn political. Global warming is not political. There is a science to it, but it is not political. Having said that, it does not fit well into any of TAMs forums.


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post #131 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 06:37 PM
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Re: If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

First we need to establish that Ďscienceí is not a hoax propagated by the Chinese who work undercover with the Democrats and the Mexicans in order to Make Guacamole Great Again at the expense of the below average American.
Then we can talk about global warming.


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post #132 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 06:40 PM
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If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

Oh sorry it wasnít supposed to be political...I would be very happy to discuss & learn more about it! While eating guacamole


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post #133 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 06:41 PM
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If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

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First we need to establish that Ďscienceí is not a hoax propagated by the Chinese who work undercover with the Democrats and the Mexicans in order to Make Guacamole Great Again at the expense of the below average American.
Then we can talk about global warming.


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Your premise already suggests that we canít talk about global warming. Google broke this discussion a long time ago. We can all find sources (regardless of how wrong they are) that support our own bias. True skeptical science can get heated but it is not about larger controversies or assumption of conspiracies, it is about the details.

We can discuss it if first some folks understand that science is not based on liberal conspiracy. And, that there is a time and scale difference between biological systems like cancer and global warming.


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post #134 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 06:58 PM
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If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

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Your premise already suggests that we canít talk about global warming. Google broke this discussion a long time ago. We can all find sources (regardless of how wrong they are) that support our own bias. True skeptical science can get heated but it is not about larger controversies or assumption of conspiracies, it is about the details.

You mean like I check my thermometer and you check yours and then we compare?
Sorry, I was being stupid...
My concern would be more that there wonít be many (any?) people to be able to give a qualified opinion...
I donít see why it canít de discussed within the parameters you outlined though.



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post #135 of 353 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 07:00 PM
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Re: If Trump isn't presidential please answer the following questions

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You mean like I check my thermometer and you check yours and then we compare?
Sorry, I was being stupid...
My concern would be more that there wonít be many (any?) people to be able to give a qualified opinion...
I donít see why it canít de discussed within the parameters you outlined though.



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What parameters would you propose? Because again, if it is not about the science it quickly dissolves into ideological rubbish (on both sides).

Some of us are qualified to discuss the details, simply the reason I will not start such a thread.


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