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post #1501 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 01:18 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by DownButNotOut View Post
The opinions of subject matter experts who also happen to be first-hand witnesses to what they describe does carry significant weight. Their conclusions are backed up with their reasonings in the testimony. And Sondland was forced to admit that the facts he had just described match the definition. All the testimony is to fill in the timeline, and complete the picture.

Look. Trump did it. He said he did it. Mulvaney said Trump did it. Sondland did it. He said he did it. Hill described he did it. Vondman said he did it. They went around the system to strongarm the Ukranian President to publicly state a new investigation into Biden, and Clinton.

Forget bothsiderism. Forget 'whataboutism'. He did it. You have to decide if that is ok, or wrong in your own ethical standards.

I say any politician using the powers of his office for personal political gain is wrong. I say that is worthy of removal from office. I say it is ethically beyond the pale. Believe what you want.

I'll believe people like Vindman, and Hill.
The arguments above your post are just silly.

Everyone jumping to defend Trump with the indefensible better get ready to accept the same from someone else. What he gets away with will become the new normal.

Hope they like it when lies, bribery, and the rest of it is OK when a left-leaning agenda is being pushed. Because the goal posts will have been cemented in.

Such a short sighted view.

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post #1502 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 01:26 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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I am pretty sure he is undergoing Impeachment hearings because of what was said on the call. What all of the other people you like to refer to said to one another is not evidence that Trump told Ukraine to investigate Biden or else you get no money. No on of them can testify that Trump told them to do anything of the sort. Even Sondland stated in his latest revision that he "presumed" there to be a a quid pro quo.

When this gets out of the Democrat Circus it will not stand up in a court like setting where the actual facts rule.
It could all be finished now. Why was the money held? Why were proper channels detailing the holding of the money not followed? If there is a legitimate, real reason for all of this, then provide it and we all go about our business.

Yet, there is nothing. There is no reason the money was held, other than the multiple references to Biden, deliverables, investigations, etc.
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post #1503 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 01:28 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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They never added all of his corrections. Vindman was surprised and said it was very unusual to not include all of his corrections on calls.

Trump didn't talk about 'corruption' or even 'Burisma' on the call, he said Biden. Plus Vindman said there were more mentions of Biden in the call that were left out of the summary.

Trump in the phone call with Zelensky: "[Zelensky asks to buy javelin missiles]. I'd like you to do us a favor though [first mentions stuff about Crowdstrike conspiracy theory about in Ukraine then about how our former US ambassador was bad news then says]... There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it..."

Funny how you Trump fans can connect dots linking Hillary to Vince Foster murder, Seth Rich murder, Pizzagate child sex slaves, Jeffrey Epstein murder, any wild stretch of a conspiracy theory or pretzel logic.

But you can't manage to connect the dots between Trump saying "Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it" and the fact that Biden is Trump's most likely competitor in 2020. Two dots so close together they are touching. Plus the fact that Trump was withholding the aid illegally past the deadline and not telling anyone why. Another dot touching the other two.
I've never once connected dots between Hillary and any of those cases you mention. Does that some how make you feel better to claim this. Does it make your points any more valid?

But I find it strange you cannot connect the dots when Joe Biden is on actual tape bragging that he had the Ukraine Investigator fired or they get no money. Since Shokin is the only one in the Ukraine bunch that has subitted a sworn affadavit to court under penalty of perjury that he was actively investigating Burisma and that the President of Ukraine told him was being fired because of Joe Bidens request, I think I'll stick with him for now.

If you think there is something wrong with the President of the US asking the President of the Ukraine to work with Attorney General Barr to check into Bidens own admission that he did it, you need a reality check.
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post #1504 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 01:28 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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My 401K has given me all the answers I need.
Ethics are for sale? I doubt it, man.

And better move your stocks out of America. I have. Things don't look good.
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post #1505 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 01:31 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Actually the witnesses most likely to be friendly to the defense have been asked to appear, and refused or ignored subpoenas.

And for the umpteenth time, the rules are what were passed in 2015 by the Republicans under Boehner. If Republicans thought they were fine while in the majority; well they shouldn’t screech when they have to live with them in the minority. Or perhaps they weren’t acting in good faith then, and passed rules that were unfair to the minority?

In reference to the store scenario. It is quite likely a jury could still find the defendant guilty. Is it reasonable to conclude the shop owner is answering under duress or in fear of reprisal? Is there security camera footage of the theft? Witnesses who testify they were present for planning the robbery? Others in the shop who saw the theft? Even if the theft was ultimately a failure, the defendant could still be found guilty of attempted robbery, or conspiracy to commit. Both of which, in a legal sense, are just as serious crimes with similar sentences to a successful attempt.
Boehner changed rules for an investigation not am Impeachment process.
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post #1506 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 01:35 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by sa58 View Post
This inquisition isn't going to end soon.

No it is not a trial inquisition is the only
thing that might fit. It is not fair in my
viewpoint to have one person decide who
gets to testify and who doesn't. Not being
to call a witness in your defense reute
a testimony is wrong. I still have not heard anything
just he said she said.

Impeachment, impeachment that has been said since
day one. To much vitriol and hatred, even people being
triggered by a red hat. Shoes, two scoops of ice cream
and all of the other nonsense. Sharpies included

The president is a co equal branch. The president
doesn't have to bow down and let Congress know
everything he does. He hires and fires people
he appoints. When he wants, Ambassadors included.

Even if this inquisition ends in articles of impeachment
Then goes to the Senate and is dismissed based on evidence
there will still be cries of cover up. If Trump is reelected then
it will continue, and continue. With out a doubt. Why ?

They should try policies that help the American people not
socialism and making promises that they cannot pay for.
Voting works well also.

The above is my viewpoint at least until someone tries to
silence it.
Especially when the Chair of the committee should recuse himself for lying about the contact his staff had with the whistleblower
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post #1507 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 01:36 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by Mr.Married View Post
My 401K has given me all the answers I need.
That's the value of freedom and integrity?
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post #1508 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 01:40 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by Tasorundo View Post
It could all be finished now. Why was the money held? Why were proper channels detailing the holding of the money not followed? If there is a legitimate, real reason for all of this, then provide it and we all go about our business.

Yet, there is nothing. There is no reason the money was held, other than the multiple references to Biden, deliverables, investigations, etc.
Well except that Trump said he wanted assurances from the Ukraine President that he was serious about ending corruption before he gave away the $400 Mmillion. But that can't be true can it?
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post #1509 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 01:57 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Well except that Trump said he wanted assurances from the Ukraine President that he was serious about ending corruption before he gave away the $400 Mmillion. But that can't be true can it?
If it was true, why not do it the right way? Why not do it in the open? Why not talk about it publicly, then you could really see what a true champion for anti-corruption Trump is.

Nah, clearly the best way to fight corruption is by not following procedures, having your personal attorney handle stuff, and spread false information about diplomats.
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post #1510 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 01:59 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Boehner changed rules for an investigation not am Impeachment process.
Were they not investigating?

Please provide the official rules for the impeachment process they violated.

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post #1511 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 03:42 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Were they not investigating?

Please provide the official rules for the impeachment process they violated.
They were but they were calling it an "impeachment inquiry" and have now voted that it is an official "impeachment Inquiry" and Boehner did not pass any rules related to "impeachment Inquiry"
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post #1512 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 03:46 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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If it was true, why not do it the right way? Why not do it in the open? Why not talk about it publicly, then you could really see what a true champion for anti-corruption Trump is.

Nah, clearly the best way to fight corruption is by not following procedures, having your personal attorney handle stuff, and spread false information about diplomats.
Like he would get any cooperation form Congess if he followed the procedures they want. But lets not try to fool anyone, This is pretty common stuff from any administartion. Because you know all Politics is straight above the table dealing.
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post #1513 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 05:03 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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They were but they were calling it an "impeachment inquiry" and have now voted that it is an official "impeachment Inquiry" and Boehner did not pass any rules related to "impeachment Inquiry"
In other words, they were doing everything within the rules and according to the constitution, ok.
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post #1514 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 05:05 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Boehner changed rules for an investigation not am Impeachment process.


That’s what I just said. Up until tomorrow’s public session, that is exactly how the House was operating. Committees were investigating.


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post #1515 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 05:07 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Like he would get any cooperation form Congess if he followed the procedures they want. But lets not try to fool anyone, This is pretty common stuff from any administartion. Because you know all Politics is straight above the table dealing.
Oh, so that means you can just do whatever you want, anytime and just say 'well they wouldn't have helped anyway'....whatever.

Rep house and rep senate passed those funds originally, so I am not sure who wouldn't cooperate. I mean, what where they going to argue with? Trump says "hey we need to investigate corruption" and the dems say "No! Corruption is good!"

You have a crazy hat on if you believe this story line.
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