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post #1516 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 05:08 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by Always Learning View Post
Well except that Trump said he wanted assurances from the Ukraine President that he was serious about ending corruption before he gave away the $400 Mmillion. But that can't be true can it?


He said that while simultaneously trying to cut funding earmarked for fighting corruption. Disingenuous at best.

The aid Trump violated statute to withhold was expressly for defense against an active enemy. Lives literally at stake.


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post #1517 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 08:39 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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I've never once connected dots between Hillary and any of those cases you mention. Does that some how make you feel better to claim this. Does it make your points any more valid?

But I find it strange you cannot connect the dots when Joe Biden is on actual tape bragging that he had the Ukraine Investigator fired or they get no money. Since Shokin is the only one in the Ukraine bunch that has subitted a sworn affadavit to court under penalty of perjury that he was actively investigating Burisma and that the President of Ukraine told him was being fired because of Joe Bidens request, I think I'll stick with him for now.
If you ever believe in fact-checking otherwise convenient stories, this would be a good place to start. Shokin was denounced as corrupt by his countrymen, the EU and the W administration. That is the dot that connects to Biden getting him fired. As for his self-serving claims about investigating the Burisma case prior to getting fired, they have been refuted by people who worked for him.
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If you think there is something wrong with the President of the US asking the President of the Ukraine to work with Attorney General Barr to check into Bidens own admission that he did it,
you need a reality check.
Here's what's wrong w/ it, we can investigate our own people, we don't need to pay foreigners unconstrained by our laws to do it for us.
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post #1518 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 08:42 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Well except that Trump said he wanted assurances from the Ukraine President that he was serious about ending corruption before he gave away the $400 Mmillion. But that can't be true can it?
Is there any evidence Trump expressed any interest in alleged corruption that didn't involve his main political opponent?
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post #1519 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 09:08 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Like he would get any cooperation form Congess if he followed the procedures they want. But lets not try to fool anyone, This is pretty common stuff from any administartion. Because you know all Politics is straight above the table dealing.
We'll never know what Congress would have done, b/c Donald didn't want to find out.

But we would not now be accusing him of dealing under the table.
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post #1520 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 10:35 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Is there any evidence Trump expressed any interest in alleged corruption that didn't involve his main political opponent?
Firstly, Biden is not Trump's main political opponent. Trump currently has no political opponent. Biden is one of many Democratic hopefuls for the Democratic nomination, but there has yet to be even one single vote cast in any Democratic primary. Biden is not likely to be the winner of the nomination. Certainly not more likely than several others. Biden is an opponent of all the other Democrats. Taking out Biden now would only allow the Democrats to put forth an even stronger candidate next year. Iow, it helps the Dems to take down Biden, but it hurts Trump to take down Biden.

Secondly, Biden was the point man of the previous administration's Ukraine activity. It would be likely that corruption within the US government related to Ukraine would involve Biden.

Thirdly, since the previous administration was Democrat, it is 100% certain any corruption within the US government related to Ukraine would involve high ranking Democrats and officials of the Democrat Administration. There is 0.0000% chance it would be a Republican. Which means any attempt to investigate Ukranian meddling in the 2016 election or corruption related to Ukraine, or questions about conflicts of interest involving US officials related to Ukraine must involve Democrats.

So far we know for a fact Ukranians colluded with Democrats to sway the 2016 election. They've been convicted of it. So far we know for a fact Shiff tried to collect dirt on Trump from Russians, which would have been illegal except the call was a prank. Had it been real Russians, Shiff would have been committing a serious felony of colluding with Russians to affect the 2016 election.

I say investigate it all. All of it. Start from the earliest date and move forward. That means look at Biden, Obama, Hillary, the DNC, all the affiliated people, the Russians, Christopher Steele, Comey, all the people in the CIA, FBI, DoJ who were trying to get rid of Trump, the FISA warrants. Hunter Biden, the Chinese, Sec. Kerry and his son, Romney and his son. Then let's look at the so-called whistleblower, Shiff, the lawyer (who tweeted "the coup has begun"). We have the transcript of Trump's call so we don't need 3rd hand opinions, but let's dissect all of the call, not just whether Trump may have implied a Quid Pro Quo. Let's investigate the billions of $ given to Ukraine under Obama and whatever happened to it and the approach Obama's administration (Biden....) took to the lost billions. Let's discuss whether Quid Pro Quo is normal in international politics, and look at examples of previous administrations' use of quid pro quo.

Hey, I get it. Orange Man Bad. Trump Evil. And so the ends justify the means. But, if you're not willing to put your team under the same microscope and apply the same standards and apply the same penalties, well then I just don't see it as anything but a political hit job to get rid of Trump. And that's what we have. Everyone with a D is getting a complete pass. Biden's boasting of a quid pro quo is good!

Just like "nobody wants to take your guns" was an obvious lie for years, this entire attempt to take down Trump is an obvious political hit job based on lies. Your team did it first and did it to the limit, so I have no ability to even care if Trump did it until the left first takes down their own corruption.
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post #1521 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 06:48 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

Thor, that whole thing is great and all, but every single person in here that wants Trump investigated in this, says the same of Biden. They are not protecting anyone, I do not give two turds about Biden. If he is guilty, punish him. No one wants to protect him, Clinton, anyone. If they are guilty, take them down, period.

Here is the thing though, Biden has been investigated, both here and abroad. By governments, by journalists, by international law enforcement agencies, and on it goes. You know what they found? Nothing. He did what he was supposed to do, he did it in the open, and he did it with the backing of the state department as well as other countries.

So, you can whine and cry about wasting billions on stuff, but at least Dems are investigating something that has not already been proven to be true.

Also, if you want to get into who did what first, it goes back for years as to who did what and when. You want to talk about wasted time trying to trash people, Benghazi. Go look at that **** show of wasted time and money to make someone look bad.

As for wasted billions in the Ukraine, also right wing conspiracy like Biden: https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...-anti-governm/

So much of all of this is a giant conspiracy, witch hunt, pile of bull. Trump absolutely used that money to get political advantage. If you cannot see that, then you are a fool. Does that mean that no other politician is corrupt, nope, it doesn't, but there are murderers walking around every day. Does that mean we should let the ones we have caught out of prison?
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post #1522 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 07:21 AM
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post #1523 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 08:56 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by NextTimeAround View Post
do you like medicare? public education? not always having to pay a toll road? do you like knowing that the local fire brigade will come directly to your house instead of checking as to whether you have this year's fire premium? ...... and so on.
I like medicare, but not for all. I like employer provided
health care better. Usually you get to choose what coverage
your family needs. Plus the company co-pays part of it.
Not the American taxpayer. Public education, I believe in the
voucher program. School of choice, your child you should have
the right to get them the best education possible. Having to pay
for toll roads ? I will chip in if it gets a lot of them repaired. That
is something the gov. has been talking about way to long also.

Fire department and fire premiums ? I think about my fellow
Americans in Calif. and the fires there. Their power being shut
off because PG&E doesn't maintain their grid. Where is the gov.
for them ? Hard working people who have to suffer, They pay taxes
also.

I believe in free enterprise also.
Millionaire and Billionaires who have
prospered. Bill Gates- Microsoft, Jeff
Bezo- Amazon, Steve Jobs- Apple and
someone who started with a small store
and passed it on to his family, Sam Walton
Walmart founder. Many others who have and
will.

If you tax these people to death then they
usually do one thing. Relocate, MOVE !
The Cayman islands will welcome them.
Then your tax base erodes and who pays
for dreams ? Middle class.

If the politicians pass Medicare for all then
will they use it for themselves and families ?
Or will they exempt themselves just like they
did for Obamacare. Good enough for us good
enough for then right ?

Have a great day and I enjoy the civil debate.
I bet if we had more of it then everybody could
solve a lot more problems.

Never place anyone on a pedestal it hurts more when they fall off
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post #1524 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 09:02 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

As I said in an earlier post if Trump
is guilty of a high crime remove him.
Evidence not hear say. If not stop
the dog and pony show.

My concern is that in the future
if a President is elected ( by the
people) and the other party has
control of the House and maybe
Senate then do they get to do this
to ?

Then goodbye Republic ?

Side note - I have heard a report
that another whistle blower
has filed a IG complaint that
the Trump whistle blower has
a go fund me account. For what ?
Could be illegal depending on who
donates. Foreign gov. ?

Smell that smell ?

Never place anyone on a pedestal it hurts more when they fall off

Last edited by sa58; 11-13-2019 at 09:07 AM.
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post #1525 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 09:17 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

A non-profit called whistleblower aid started a GoFundMe.

Why would a conspiracy use GoFundMe to get money? I mean, we are talking about mega rich billionaires here, they need to get 200k from donations on GoFundMe?

Just more stupid noise that distracts from anything of merit.

----

Also, who cares if people impeach every president from here on out? They don't get removed from office for it. It doesn't really do anything, but bring to light charges and outcomes.

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post #1526 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 09:18 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by sa58 View Post
My concern is that in the future
if a President is elected ( by the
people) and the other party has
control of the House and maybe
Senate then do they get to do this
to ?

Then goodbye Republic ?
Of course they can. They have had the power since 1787. Its all right there in black and white. Article 1 section 2. Article 1 section 3, and article 2 section 4.

All it takes is a reason, a majority of the house and 67 in the Senate.

They could even use trying to hide an affair as a reason if they wanted to. Or selling out foreign policy for personal gain.

All nice and legal.
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post #1527 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 09:25 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by sa58 View Post
My concern is that in the future
if a President is elected ( by the
people) and the other party has
control of the House and maybe
Senate then do they get to do this
to ?

Then goodbye Republic ?
Yes, this is what is happening. From the beginning of Trump's candidacy it has been one dirty trick after another to try to remove him from office. The Democrats, starting with Hillary and her campaign and continuing to today, have been throwing everything they can think of out into the willing press to see what can get traction. It is all about the Democrats taking down the Republican for political power. That is all it is about.

Not to say there aren't regular citizens who are concerned about whatever the issue of the moment is. But what is really happening is the left in the swamp (politicians and the media) are attempting to grab power they could not win in elections.

We are already finding out there were many people involved in 3rd world banana republic dictatorship style machinations.

Impeachment is on the verge of becoming standard procedure by the losing party. Which is why I am saying to the left "Go For It". Take it to the limit. Take it to the Senate. And then the Republicans in the Senate need to expose everything that has been going on. Now it is time to just take off the gloves.

The left has driven us off this cliff. Either we fight now with the hope of draining the swamp, or we truly lose our free republic.
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post #1528 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 09:28 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

Give me a break.
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post #1529 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 09:56 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by Tasorundo View Post
Here is the thing though, Biden has been investigated, both here and abroad. By governments, by journalists, by international law enforcement agencies, and on it goes. You know what they found? Nothing. He did what he was supposed to do, he did it in the open, and he did it with the backing of the state department as well as other countries.
There is so very much more there than either you are aware of or than you are willing to see. Lots of information is out there, but not on the ABC nightly news. Verified facts. Names, dates, $$, connections, documents. An honest look at it brings up a lot of questions about a whole lot more than simply whether it was kosher for Burisma to pay Biden's son to be on their BoD.

So investigate it. Deeply.

I don't give a rat's ass what Ukrainians say about whether a Biden broke a Ukranian law. That is irrelevant. I care about the larger picture which involves a lot of people, boatloads of cash, and numerous very shady looking machinations. I think there is a lot of deep corruption involving Biden and his son. It also involves Kerry and his son, and probably Romney and his son. It involves China and Russia.

And that's just one small slice of a large pie.

If we're are going to investigate what Trump was attempting to do with the phone call then we need to know all the possible corruptions or mis-deeds he was trying to get information about. Doesn't he have a basic right to present his full story? And that necessarily involves Biden because Biden was the point-man for the Obama administration for Ukraine. If there's no there there, it will quickly become obvious. So let's have Congress investigate everything comprehensively. I don't trust Ukraine, I don't trust the media, and I certainly don't trust the Democrats in Congress to be honest or fair.

Now that we're on this road it must be an open process where both sides get equal opportunity to present their side. If you shut off either side from presenting their position then it is nothing but a sham.

This is a political process. Everything about it needs to be brought into the open so the public can know what has happened. We can't know what Trump was meaning unless we get to hear his side and then fully investigate it. Hey, if the Dems have done nothing wrong then they have nothing to fear from a full investigation.
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post #1530 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 10:08 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

All of this is just a big misdirection of Trump. There is nothing to see, it was never hidden, it was never a massive dem conspiracy.

This is 2016 all over again, with Hillary emails, Benghazi, etc, a giant nothing burger of nothingness. But oh man, we better rile up the troops with all of their fears about how evil the dems are while the reps are butt raping the country.

Look all over the country, look at which party is getting in trouble for gerrymandering, which party is getting indicted for issues, over and over again. It is crooked as hell, and you want to investigate if Biden's son got a cushy job, because he was Biden's son? Who cares????

How about we make more big pharma guys in charge of healthcare, and big bankers in charge of finance, and all the while point to how the dems are swampy or some other stupid crap.

I just do not understand how you guys can sit there and see these stories and think Trump represents the good guys? He is the swampiest of them all!
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