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post #1651 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 10:12 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by VladDracul View Post
DBNO, who is the first guy and what the hell has he got to do with anything?


On further searching, it appears to be the guy tapped on right wing sites as the whistleblower. Eric Ciaramella


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post #1652 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 10:44 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by Tasorundo View Post
Do you understand that both sides are so full of double standards it is ridiculous?
The issue is that the Dems told us so many times in so many ways that all these actions were ok when their people did it. But now they have been trying to take down Trump (and Cavanaugh etc) for over 3 years alleging he did something. Did R's do these things in the past? I don't recall any where it became publicly known where the R didn't suffer in some big way for it.

It isn't that the R's are pure, it is that the Dems have excused or even admired their people for all these things, so now They have no right to expect anyone to think they genuinely find it deserving of taking down a Republican. Their only genuine belief is that they want to grab power with any dirty maneuver they can get away with.
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post #1653 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 10:57 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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The issue is that the Dems told us so many times in so many ways that all these actions were ok when their people did it. But now they have been trying to take down Trump (and Cavanaugh etc) for over 3 years alleging he did something. Did R's do these things in the past? I don't recall any where it became publicly known where the R didn't suffer in some big way for it.

It isn't that the R's are pure, it is that the Dems have excused or even admired their people for all these things, so now They have no right to expect anyone to think they genuinely find it deserving of taking down a Republican. Their only genuine belief is that they want to grab power with any dirty maneuver they can get away with.
They both do this all the time! ALL THE TIME!!! Remember how awful executive actions were when Obama was signing them? They were going to ruin the country, the R's said he thought he was a king! Yet, it's good for Trump to do it (even with R control of both houses).

Remember when we needed to give committees the ability to subpoena witnesses without the house? Yeah, that was a great plan, until now!

They made Al Fraken resign, so yeah the R's do get holier than thou about stuff. Fraken must resign, Trump must be president!

Last edited by Tasorundo; 11-18-2019 at 11:08 AM.
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post #1654 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 11:00 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by SpinyNorman View Post
A conservative think tank, and also the DNC. Steele himself presented it to the FBI, so it didn't matter if those who bought it did or not. I'm not aware anyone knows any part of it to be false. Neither Steele nor the DNC can obtain a FISA warrant, only law enforcement can.
You are very confused about how law enforcement works. Anyone can submit anything as evidence, and it is the job of law enforcement to evaluate it and take it from there.

Of course, it's not that your guy is guilty, it's just that every human being in the world is in a conspiracy against him. That sounds really plausible. If I sound patronizing it's b/c I have to point out you are conflating law enforcement with a political party.
I'm not conflating anything. I am saying their was essentially no separation between the Hillary campaign and many in the Obama administration. You need to do more reading to understand the Steele dossier. A group within law enforcement, CIA, and the Obama white house became operatives to assist the DNC and Hillary's campaign by using their office under color of law.

The Dems used the dossier to fraudulently petition the court for the FISA warrant. Dems within federal agencies such as FBI, DoJ, CIA operating to take down Trump. They knew Steele did not stand by it. Those who signed the FISA application not only knew it wasn't true or verifiable, they leaked it to a media source to create a news story, then presented that news story to the FISA court as a second independent source of the allegations in order to prop up the appearance of legitimacy of the Steele dossier.

The web of players within the law enforcement community is consistent and fairly small. Not a worldwide conspiracy, but rather maybe a couple dozen. The trail of emails and their actions show they were pursuing purely political goals under the pretense of criminal investigation.
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post #1655 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 12:37 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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I have no idea. Maybe ask whoever emailed it to you.

I tried an image search but came up empty.
My son sent it to me and told me to guess who it is. I expect I need to ask the mods to delete it.

"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
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post #1656 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 05:06 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Your position on Hillary and Bill Clinton? Did/do you vehemently oppose both Clinton's as much as you do Trump? Would you support finding a way to take them down so as to show that their bad behavior is unacceptable?
Bill, yes:
Bill Clinton, the 42nd President of the United States (1993 - 2001), has been publicly accused of sexual misconduct by four women: Juanita Broaddrick accused Clinton of raping her in 1978; Leslie Millwee[1] accused Clinton of sexually assaulting her in 1980; Paula Jones accused Clinton of exposing himself to her in 1991 as well as sexually harassing her; and Kathleen Willey accused Clinton of groping her without her consent in 1993. The Jones allegations became public in 1994, during Clinton's first term as president, while Willey's and Broaddrick's accusations became public in 1999, toward the end of Clinton's second term. Millwee did not make her accusations until 2016.

There are four known accusations against him.

Regarding Hillary, there are none to my knowledge.

At any rate, neither of these two people are currently POTUS, the highest role in the land. Neither actually have any formal role in the US government or authority whatsoever as far as I know.

And since Bill has 4 accusations, and Trump has > 24.... what say you about Trump? Is he six times as bad as Bill Clinton to you? Because that's where your own logic takes you.

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Your answers notwithstanding, do you understand why so many of us say to those on left that their audacious double standards have left us unable and unwilling to support taking out our side if our side is at least promoting policies that we like? Do you understand why we see everything that has been done to take out Trump has been a political strategy to grab back political power, not a strategy to improve moral standards? Were the Dems able to get their way, we would have gotten a leftist with at least as bad a moral character as Trump, and likely much worse.
Are your ethics for sale? Because I think what I just heard is that it would be ok to have someone totally unethical for POS as long as he enacted policies you agree with.
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post #1657 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 10:03 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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I'm not conflating anything. I am saying their was essentially no separation between the Hillary campaign and many in the Obama administration. You need to do more reading to understand the Steele dossier.
I say the same to you.
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A group within law enforcement, CIA, and the Obama white house became operatives to assist the DNC and Hillary's campaign by using their office under color of law.

The Dems used the dossier to fraudulently petition the court for the FISA warrant.
It is stuff like this that makes me think you are conflating political parties w/ law enforcement. A political party would never receive a wiretap warrant, nor would they "petition" the FISA court. As I've said before, anyone can submit evidence to law enforcement, but there's no guarantee law enforcement will consider it credible.
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Dems within federal agencies such as FBI, DoJ, CIA operating to take down Trump. They knew Steele did not stand by it. Those who signed the FISA application not only knew it wasn't true or verifiable, they leaked it to a media source
You're confused again. I already explained it was a commercially produced report, so how does a private individual "leak" his own reporting?
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to create a news story, then presented that news story to the FISA court as a second independent source of the allegations in order to prop up the appearance of legitimacy of the Steele dossier.
This doesn't make any sense. How does a news story about an allegation prove it is true? I understand you are out to smear the FBI, but they are smart enough to realize this.
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The web of players within the law enforcement community is consistent and fairly small. Not a worldwide conspiracy, but rather maybe a couple dozen. The trail of emails and their actions show they were pursuing purely political goals under the pretense of criminal investigation.
...and we're back to everyone is in a conspiracy to get Trump, b/c that is so much more believable than he's guilty. It can't be that this guy is sleazier than Reagan or Clinton, it could only be that the govt. we trusted to investigate then has suddenly gone corrupt.
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post #1658 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-19-2019, 12:02 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

With the soon to be released IG report, I guess we'll soon know if the govt. we trusted to investigate then has suddenly gone corrupt. The Dem supporting media is already building a front against Horowitz if it comes out as expected.

"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.
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post #1659 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-19-2019, 09:42 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by VladDracul View Post
DBNO, who is the first guy and what the hell has he got to do with anything?
Isn't that George Soros' son?
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post #1660 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-19-2019, 10:06 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Isn't that George Soros' son?
It might be, however in pictures I have seen of him with both Pelosi and Schumer, he isn't wearing glasses. The guy with glasses seems to have a leaner face as well, but they certainly look similar.

However, even if it is, what's the point? Soros is the boogey man of the republican conspiracy pile of garbage. If the point was to show some sort of crazy connection, then the picture of Alexander Soros wearing his DACA hat with Pelosi would be even more inflammatory!

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post #1661 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-19-2019, 10:21 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by VladDracul View Post
DBNO, who is the first guy and what the hell has he got to do with anything?
I thought it was George Soros' son.
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post #1662 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-19-2019, 10:29 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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I thought it was George Soros' son.
Mystery solved. Rep. Steve King tweeted out that pic of Alex Soros, claiming it was a pic of the whistleblower.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/st...whistleblower/

King has since deleted the tweet, but others have taken it and run.
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post #1663 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-19-2019, 10:29 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by SpinyNorman View Post
I say the same to you.It is stuff like this that makes me think you are conflating political parties w/ law enforcement. A political party would never receive a wiretap warrant, nor would they "petition" the FISA court. As I've said before, anyone can submit evidence to law enforcement, but there's no guarantee law enforcement will consider it credible. You're confused again. I already explained it was a commercially produced report, so how does a private individual "leak" his own reporting?This doesn't make any sense. How does a news story about an allegation prove it is true? I understand you are out to smear the FBI, but they are smart enough to realize this.
...and we're back to everyone is in a conspiracy to get Trump, b/c that is so much more believable than he's guilty. It can't be that this guy is sleazier than Reagan or Clinton, it could only be that the govt. we trusted to investigate then has suddenly gone corrupt.
You clearly don't understand what I have written.

People within the government petitioned for a warrant under what they knew to be false pretenses. They were officially law enforcement but were acting to get to a political outcome which was not a part of their lawful duties. Their emails prove they were trying to affect the outcome of the Presidential election. They were not acting out of wholesome honest politically neutral motivations, but in fact the exact opposite of that.

So they became an arm of the Democratic Party though not on the payroll of the DNC.

Your characterization of the dossier as a commercially produced report glosses over the deep entanglements involved.

You are acting like the people involved in this were simpleton officers who acted in good faith on credible information. This was a cabal who by their own words were knowingly working every angle they could to take down Trump. They knew the dossier to be false and unverifiable. They used an ally in the media to generate a news story, then they presented that news story under false pretenses to the FISA court as independent corroboration of the dossier.

I never said non-leos tried to get a warrant. What I said is offoicials within DoJ, FBI, CIA, and the Obama administration used color of law to spy on Trump for political purposes, and thus they were nearly indistinguishable from the DNC or Hillary's campaign.
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post #1664 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-19-2019, 10:44 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

Listening to this impeachment stuff, Nunes and the Republicans spend all of their time attacking witnesses and asking about the whistleblower.

It is a giant waste of their time and then they will rant about it and complain they never get to ask questions.
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post #1665 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-19-2019, 10:53 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by Thor View Post
You clearly don't understand what I have written.

People within the government petitioned for a warrant under what they knew to be false pretenses. They were officially law enforcement but were acting to get to a political outcome which was not a part of their lawful duties. Their emails prove they were trying to affect the outcome of the Presidential election. They were not acting out of wholesome honest politically neutral motivations, but in fact the exact opposite of that.
.
So much of what you wrote is based in deceptive spin and misrepresentation. The only place I’ve read that interpretation is in Devin Nunes’ talking points. And he is suing an imaginary cow ... so ...

The truth is likely to be far more mundane. But much is still hidden behind redactions.
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