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post #1816 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 11:42 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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The bigger elephant in the room is an acting VP uses taxpayer dollars to get his kid a job @ $50k a month from a foreign country. They basically paid him out of our tax dollars. It's skimming.

Corruption at the highest level of the Democratic Party. Obama knew or at least turned a bling eye.

Why is that acceptable?
If there is any predicate for investigation, we have agencies that take care of that, and treaties in place to get help from foreign nations in those official investigations. They handle it. For the president to involve himself personally is inappropriate at best. When the president stands to personally gain it crosses from inappropriate to abuse of the office. The remedy for abuse of power is removal from office.

Ukraine already cleared them of wrongdoing. If US law enforcement thinks they should investigate they are free to do so without the political influence of the white house.

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post #1817 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 11:54 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by DownButNotOut View Post
If there is any predicate for investigation, we have agencies that take care of that, and treaties in place to get help from foreign nations in those official investigations. They handle it. For the president to involve himself personally is inappropriate at best. When the president stands to personally gain it crosses from inappropriate to abuse of the office. The remedy for abuse of power is removal from office.

Ukraine already cleared them of wrongdoing. If US law enforcement thinks they should investigate they are free to do so without the political influence of the white house.
Nope, Biden went over and strong armed them into stopping the investigation. Even bragged about getting the investigator fired on TV no less.

Corruption at the highest levels of the Democratic Party.

It'll all cone out in the wash.
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post #1818 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 11:58 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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You keep saying that. If Trump has reason to believe Biden was doing the same thing he's being accused of doing with taxpayer money, I would expect him to call for a complete investigation, albeit he should have used a better approach. Nevertheless, if a DA was running for re-election and his opponents family member was on the board of a company suspected of money laundering, I wouldn't expect the DA to withhold examination and I certainly wouldn't think his/her request for examination was politically motivated. In respect to Ukraine's involvement in the 2016 election, I cannot viscerally link that to Biden unless it produced evidence Ukraine was working with the Dems and the stain inflicted on a subsequent Dem candidate. As of now it seems as ole Billy would say, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" with a little too much effort to discourage a follow-up; especially considering the "betting on the wrong horse" folks who did the original "independent" investigation.

Besides that, it would really really help the abuse of power for personal gain argument if there was some besides the words of Democrat operatives and "heard it through the grape vine" evidence.
I would expect the DA to fully recuse himself from any investingation brushing up against a political rival to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

What Trump did was hold money Congress had already approved, that had already gone through the clearance process, and that he had no legal right to withhold. He did that for an announcement of investigations to help his 2020 campaign. One into Biden - who was polling as the frontrunner at the time. One into 'Crowdstrike', which our intelligence agencies have said is a Russian mis-information operation.

Democrat operatives?
Kurt Volker - Trump appointee
William Taylor - Trump appointee
Gordon Sondland - Trump appointee and major donor
Fiona Hill - Bush admin appointee

Other first-hand witnesses have been called and defied congressional subpoenas on orders from the white house. You want their story? Tell the white house to let them tell it.
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post #1819 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownButNotOut View Post
If there is any predicate for investigation, we have agencies that take care of that, and treaties in place to get help from foreign nations in those official investigations. They handle it. For the president to involve himself personally is inappropriate at best. When the president stands to personally gain it crosses from inappropriate to abuse of the office. The remedy for abuse of power is removal from office.

Ukraine already cleared them of wrongdoing. If US law enforcement thinks they should investigate they are free to do so without the political influence of the white house.
Nope, Biden went over and strong armed them into stopping the investigation. Even bragged about getting the investigator fired on TV no less.

Corruption at the highest levels of the Democratic Party.

It'll all cone out in the wash.
Oh good lord, do you all not understand that this is what EVERYONE wanted? The investigator, as you call him, was corrupt, his ouster was sought worldwide by those who we’re working against corruption in Ukraine. It boggles my mind how this simple fact seems to be set aside repeatedly by those who are intent on doing Trump’s bidding.
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post #1820 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 12:04 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Nope, Biden went over and strong armed them into stopping the investigation. Even bragged about getting the investigator fired on TV no less.

Corruption at the highest levels of the Democratic Party.

It'll all cone out in the wash.
Dude, I linked the article like 3 posts above. Ukraine saw no wrongdoing in either Joe or Hunter Biden's actions.
Here it is again:
https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...ongdoing-biden

He 'strong armed' Ukraine to fire the guy who wouldn't investigate Burisma. He did it with the full support of not only US national foreign policy, but the EU, and the IMF, and others.
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post #1821 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 01:48 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

Fox News is so corrupt. How does this not go uncorrected? How can they call themselves news?

No wonder why so many people believe Trump’s BS and how Nunes, etc, get away with clear corruption and lies.

Nobody holds anybody accountable in America any more, it seems.

I’m not pushing CNN here, but Sondlands testimony is at least accurately quoted elsewhere.
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post #1822 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 05:21 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

https://babylonbee.com/news/breaking...ation-deleting

It's comical....whenever Trump is accused of something, it was actually done during the Obama disaster.

BTW, Ukraine was one of the biggest donors to the Clinton Foundation a few short years ago.

In other news, Hillary has expressed sadness at the untimely ''suicide'' of Ukraine.
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post #1823 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 05:31 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by OnTheFly View Post
https://babylonbee.com/news/breaking...ation-deleting

It's comical....whenever Trump is accused of something, it was actually done during the Obama disaster.

BTW, Ukraine was one of the biggest donors to the Clinton Foundation a few short years ago.

In other news, Hillary has expressed sadness at the untimely ''suicide'' of Ukraine.
I really hope you're joking. That is a satire site, not a news site. SMH
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post #1824 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 05:53 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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I really hope you're joking. That is a satire site, not a news site. SMH
OnTheFly might not be as intellectually capable as most, but he is still a person and we should show him respect.
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post #1825 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 05:56 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Trump is a business man and wants to know how money is being
used. Not his but the taxpayers. About time we had someone who
does.
He wants to know the taxpayers' money is only going to countries that agree to smear who he tells them to smear.

Is that your definition of stewardship?

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post #1826 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 07:54 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Originally Posted by DownButNotOut View Post
I would expect the DA to fully recuse himself from any investingation brushing up against a political rival to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

Other first-hand witnesses have been called and defied congressional subpoenas on orders from the white house. You want their story? Tell the white house to let them tell it.
Would the DA's appearance of impropriety warrant removal from office? In and of itself, I don't think so. But no, I don't want to hear from the other folks. There's already enough reasonable doubt cast by the witnesses that said, "no, I didn't hear the President say it but I assumed by what old so-n-so told us, it was implied by his boss". Sides that, I'll argue that under the three branches of government system, the President has privilege to protect the sanctity of private conversation in the executive branch, from Congress. Old Shifty Schiff and his impeachment team knows better than to take this to court and get his azz handed to him while revealing probably the weakest of his impeachment/obstruction arguments.
I wonder what y'all going to come up with during Trumps second term.

"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.
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post #1827 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 07:59 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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He wants to know the taxpayers' money is only going to countries that agree to smear who he tells them to smear.

Is that your definition of stewardship?
No, he wants to know the taxpayers money is only going to countries that show proof they a cleaning up corruption and use the money we provide as we intended and they are willing to promulgate. That's stewardship Spiny.

"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.
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post #1828 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 08:50 PM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Would the DA's appearance of impropriety warrant removal from office? In and of itself, I don't think so. But no, I don't want to hear from the other folks. There's already enough reasonable doubt cast by the witnesses that said, "no, I didn't hear the President say it but I assumed by what old so-n-so told us, it was implied by his boss". Sides that, I'll argue that under the three branches of government system, the President has privilege to protect the sanctity of private conversation in the executive branch, from Congress. Old Shifty Schiff and his impeachment team knows better than to take this to court and get his azz handed to him while revealing probably the weakest of his impeachment/obstruction arguments.
I wonder what y'all going to come up with during Trumps second term.
re DA: That depends on how blatant. If any laws were violated. Officials have certainly resigned, or been removed for less.

re Trump: It appears that you and I disagree on whether what he did was OK. Not whether he did it? We agree on the basic facts?

On his orders, aid that had been cleared by the proper agencies was withheld. His top aides, plus Giuliani, Parnas, and Fruman, were enlisted to extract a public announcement of investigations into Burisma, the Bidens, and the Crowdstrike conspiracy theory (that was originally a Russian mis-information campaign according to our intelligence agencies).

Do we agree that his withholding of the aid violated the laws under which that aid was approved? That is the case.
Do we agree that he removed an ambassador who was viewed as very strong working with Ukranian anti-corruption efforts? (Yovanovich)
Do we agree that the two released phone memoranda do not contain Trump discussing 'corruption', but the second does contain discussing investigating Biden?
Do we agree that witnesses did say there was a quid-pro-quo? Fiona Hill, and Sondland were pretty explicit.

What about Trump himself? Do we agree that he has publicly admitted he asked for an investigation into the Bidens? On several occasions to reporter questions, and on Fox and Friends?

As far as the limits of executive privilege, I'll defer to the courts for that one. At least there is precedent there with the Nixon tapes. If the SC holds to that precedent, then documents that are being withheld should be compelled released.

Last edited by DownButNotOut; 11-23-2019 at 08:54 PM.
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post #1829 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-24-2019, 07:25 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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Other first-hand witnesses have been called and defied congressional subpoenas on orders from the white house. You want their story? Tell the white house to let them tell it.

^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^



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post #1830 of 2208 (permalink) Old 11-24-2019, 09:05 AM
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Re: whistleblower complaint against Trump

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What about Trump himself? Do we agree that he has publicly admitted he asked for an investigation into the Bidens? On several occasions to reporter questions, and on Fox and Friends?
Rather than deal with each question, suffice it to say that if there were two or more witnesses that heard President Trump say to the effect of "the funds will be released when youse guys get me some dirt on Biden" I'd be on the same page as you. Him demoting of Ms. Yovanovich may have been a crappy thing, but as its set up, he could demote, reassign, or dismiss anyone in her position because he didn't like their eye color. The idea he never mentioned the word "corruption" calls for an assumption as to his thinking in formulating his dialog.

"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.
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