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post #196 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 03:59 PM
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Re: Climate Change

Which Species Will Survive Climate Change:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...climate-change

With one in every four species facing extinction, which animals are the best equipped to survive the climate crisis? (Spoiler alert: itís probably not humans).

Even with our extraordinary capacity for innovation and adaptability, humans, it turns out, probably wonít be among the survivors.

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post #197 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 06:51 PM
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Re: Climate Change

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All the papers in the world on climate will not change the current power structure and changing that power structure has nothing to do with taxing and severely impacting regular citizens.

The folks, who are the most alarming in tone, have extremely unreliable climate model forecasts that have proven inaccurate many times over.

It doesn't help that the hysterical, fueled by media, voices give credence to a mentally challenged child of extreme privilege
over actual climate scientists who disagree with her views.

I see far too much hysteria involved in discussing this issue over listening to opposing view points about it and there are absolutely opposing views from very well accredited climate scientists.
What if the 'mentally challenged child' happens to be right? (which is a very rude way to talk about Asperger's, just wow) She might well be right, you don't know that. No climate scientist can be sure about the models. She has every right to be angry that adults are leaving her with an endangered world.

FYI, Asperger's does not necessarily lower IQ, in fact many Asperger's have extremely high IQ, sometimes even genius level at least in certain specific talents. "Savant skills are very prominent in many Asperger's persons, certainly as high as in 10% of them."

What is the current power structure and how can we change it?

Maybe you are talking about the millionaires and billionaires getting rich off of fossil fuels like the Koch brothers (RIP one of them) who do everything they can to stop any talk about climate change?

Is it alarmist to believe most of the climate scientists? It is not a minority opinion. Just because what they are saying is alarming doesn't mean they are alarmists. They aren't alarmists if they turn out to be right.

Perhaps IF the climate scientists are right and human life is threatened in a few decades, you will be in Heaven looking down at your grandchildren, great-grandchildren, or great-great-grandchildren who are in danger of starvation and are watching millions of people dying, you might think 'Gee, maybe our generation shouldn't have listened to Jordan Peterson'.

Last edited by kari2; 11-11-2019 at 06:55 PM.
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post #198 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 07:09 PM
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Re: Climate Change

How the Koch brothers funded fake science in order to benefit themselves financially: https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...orld-help-push

"George Washington University's ostensibly neutral Regulatory Studies Center is in fact a "key cog" in the Koch family's fight to slash government regulations designed to protect workers and the planet. According to the report (pdf), much of RSC's work revolves around providing "scholarly rationales against government regulation" of corporate America, with a particular focus on the fossil fuel industry—where Koch Industries makes much of its profits while financing campaigns to spread doubt about the reality and urgency of the climate crisis.

A Public Citizen report found that:

75 percent of public comments submitted by the RSC in this period were authored or co-authored by people with past or present ties to Koch-funded entities;

RSC researchers have been affiliated with at least 28 Koch-funded entities. Eight RSC researchers, including its director, Susan Dudley, have been affiliated with Koch-funded programs at George Mason University, the hub of the Koch university initiative;

Funders of the RSC, which are not fully disclosed, include the Charles Koch Foundation, the libertarian Searle Freedom Trust foundation, the far-right Sarah Scaife Foundation and ExxonMobil Foundation, along with anti-regulatory business trade associations including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Business Roundtable, and the American Chemistry Council;

Koch funding of university programs has roughly quadrupled in the past decade, to $60 million annually, and the family now helps fund more than 50 university centers."
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post #199 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 07:20 PM
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Re: Climate Change

Maybe we should take DNA samples for all species so we can clone them back in the future?? Because there is not a thing we are going to do about it.

Climate change has been happening unabated by humans for-ever period. As a matter of fact, it was happening before humans. For anyone to say that we humans are going to save the world from climate change is just preposterous!!

Holland is below sea level - they have very large pumps that keep them dry - this was economically feasible. If you live on an island, and it is determined that the sea is going to rise so that no more land above sea level - and not economically feasible to build barrier and pump water out - then GTF-Off of the island. Not to complicated here. Climate change promotional idiots say that we must act now as California is burning - stop creating CO2 - instead of assuming that the climate will keep getting worse and designing a real mechanical solution - I say what a bunch of NUTS!!

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Originally Posted by kari2 View Post
Do you believe this report:

(maybe you don't mostly because naturally you don't want to believe it, it is horribly sad)

https://www.ipbes.net/sites/default/...osting_htn.pdf

TLDR;

The global rate of species extinction "is already tens to hundreds of times higher than it has been, on average, over the last 10 million years," according to the Intergovernmental Science-Policy Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services (IPBES), a UN committee, whose report was written by 145 experts from 50 countries.

Also this article: https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...nction_crisis/

It's frightening but true: Our planet is now in the midst of its sixth mass extinction of plants and animals ó the sixth wave of extinctions in the past half-billion years. We're currently experiencing the worst spate of species die-offs since the loss of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. Although extinction is a natural phenomenon, it occurs at a natural ďbackgroundĒ rate of about one to five species per year. Scientists estimate we're now losing species at up to 1,000 times the background rate, with literally dozens going extinct every day. It could be a scary future indeed, with as many as 30 to 50 percent of all species possibly heading toward extinction by mid-century.

Unlike past mass extinctions, caused by events like asteroid strikes, volcanic eruptions, and natural climate shifts, the current crisis is almost entirely caused by us ó humans. In fact, 99 percent of currently threatened species are at risk from human activities, primarily those driving habitat loss, introduction of exotic species, and global warming [3]. Because the rate of change in our biosphere is increasing, and because every species' extinction potentially leads to the extinction of others bound to that species in a complex ecological web, numbers of extinctions are likely to snowball in the coming decades as ecosystems unravel.
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post #200 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 07:50 PM
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Re: Climate Change

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Maybe we should take DNA samples for all species so we can clone them back in the future?? Because there is not a thing we are going to do about it.

Climate change has been happening unabated by humans for-ever period. As a matter of fact, it was happening before humans. For anyone to say that we humans are going to save the world from climate change is just preposterous!!

Holland is below sea level - they have very large pumps that keep them dry - this was economically feasible. If you live on an island, and it is determined that the sea is going to rise so that no more land above sea level - and not economically feasible to build barrier and pump water out - then GTF-Off of the island. Not to complicated here. Climate change promotional idiots say that we must act now as California is burning - stop creating CO2 - instead of assuming that the climate will keep getting worse and designing a real mechanical solution - I say what a bunch of NUTS!!
So? Why shouldn't stopping CO2 be part of the solution?

Reactionary solutions can be good, but why not prevention?
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post #201 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 08:24 PM
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Re: Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspydad View Post
Maybe we should take DNA samples for all species so we can clone them back in the future?? Because there is not a thing we are going to do about it.

Climate change has been happening unabated by humans for-ever period. As a matter of fact, it was happening before humans. For anyone to say that we humans are going to save the world from climate change is just preposterous!!

Holland is below sea level - they have very large pumps that keep them dry - this was economically feasible. If you live on an island, and it is determined that the sea is going to rise so that no more land above sea level - and not economically feasible to build barrier and pump water out - then GTF-Off of the island. Not to complicated here. Climate change promotional idiots say that we must act now as California is burning - stop creating CO2 - instead of assuming that the climate will keep getting worse and designing a real mechanical solution - I say what a bunch of NUTS!!
It gets harder and harder to put up with you climate change deniers. Your views are worse than empty and hollow excuses, and i'm not going to sit here and enumerate all the things that are so blatantly wrong in what you wrote. Don't call anyone else idiots until you reflect the idiocy of your post.

Holland's pumps don't have a ghost's chance in hell of keeping them dry if the seas continue to rise at the rate they are.
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post #202 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Climate Change

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The climate is always changing. We had large insects in prehistoric times because there was so much oxygen in the atmosphere. We had more oxygen because there was global warming on a scale that makes the predictions of today look silly by comparison. Plants grew so large due to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and turned it into oxygen. The climate then cooled due to a lack of CO2. We've never had that much in the atmosphere again for that many years. We probably will never have that much again.

Best thing you could do is work on India and China, Eastern Europe and any other developing nations around the world. If you could get them to comply with our standards today, you would make a greater impact on the environment than anything we in the USA could do alone.

I don't need scientists' studies to know that and neither do you. Climate change agendas are completely the opposite of what needs done. They don't have the stomach to do what is necessary. They erroneously believe the USA is going to lead the way, but the proof that we don't is all over the news and in this post. We've been doing this cleanup since the '70s. Our engineers have made great strides.

How many of you will travel by plane or car to see your families this holiday season? How many of those members will come to see you? This would stop immediately if you really cared to do something impactful, but you won't. You point fingers.

What is sad is the naivety of climate change followers. They are some of the most selfish people I know. They think throwing money at the government will impact the climate, but it won't. The government is more wasteful and deluded than you.
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What needs to be done then, in your opinion? What is necessary that we don't have the stomach to do?
Some of it's right there.

We've come far pilgrim.

This is a power grab and nothing more. You play on the fears of the uneducated. It's a rotten thing to do. When the government has all control, some folks will be satisfied.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson
"Youth is wasted on the young". - George Bernard Shaw

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post #203 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 02:59 PM
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Re: Climate Change

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@Mr The Other

I see a fox in the hen house and he is selling insurance.
I am not sure what you mean, sorry!

If it is follow the money, then I find it misguided to think the money is in climate research rather than oil. If you mean something else, I am afraid I misunderstood.
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post #204 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 08:45 AM
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Re: Climate Change

Here is a good article from 2016 I came across today:

https://thelogicofscience.com/2016/0...bPc1W6qwcszw0c

Summary/Conclusion
Letís review, shall we?
We know that itís not the sun
We know that itís not Milankovitch cycles
We know that itís not volcanoes
We know that even when combined, natural causes cannot explain the current warming
We know that CO2 traps heat
We know that increasing CO2 causes more heat to be trapped
We know that CO2 was largely responsible for past climate changes
We know that we have greatly increased the CO2 in the atmosphere
We know that the earth is trapping more heat now than it used to
We know that including anthropogenic greenhouse gasses in the models is the only way to explain the current warming trend

When you look at that list of things that we have tested, the conclusion that we are causing the planet to warm is utterly inescapable. For some baffling reason, people often act as if scientists have never bothered to look for natural causes of climate change, but the exact opposite is true. We have carefully studied past climate changes and looked at the natural causes of climate changes, but none of them can explain the current warming. The only way to account for our current warming is to include our greenhouse gasses in the models. This is extremely clear evidence that we are causing the climate to warm, and if you want to continue to insist that the current warming is natural, then you must provide actual evidence for the existence of a mechanism that scientists have missed, and you must provide evidence that it is a better explanation for the current warming than CO2.
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post #205 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 10:05 AM
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Re: Climate Change

Here is a good bit of hard data for those who like to read.


Last edited by ConanHub; 11-24-2019 at 09:59 AM.
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post #206 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 10:27 AM
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Re: Climate Change

In his paper, he doesn't seem to address why the levels are rising or why the temperatures are rising. He just says 'we aren't doing it' and uses a round about study of isotope ratios to prove it. My link also uses isotope studies to show that we are causing it, so......who is right?
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post #207 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 11:01 AM
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Re: Climate Change

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What if the 'mentally challenged child' happens to be right? (which is a very rude way to talk about Asperger's, just wow) She might well be right, you don't know that. No climate scientist can be sure about the models. She has every right to be angry that adults are leaving her with an endangered world.

FYI, Asperger's does not necessarily lower IQ, in fact many Asperger's have extremely high IQ, sometimes even genius level at least in certain specific talents. "Savant skills are very prominent in many Asperger's persons, certainly as high as in 10% of them."
It isn't rude to call a mentally challenged child a mentally challenged child. Only apparently in your universe but hardly in mine.

I do believe it was more than rude of adults to take advantage of her the way they did.

If you are capable, read the link I posted. You might consider the opinion of a very rich child with Asperger's to be more convincing but I certainly don't.
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post #208 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 11:07 AM
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Re: Climate Change

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Originally Posted by Tasorundo View Post
In his paper, he doesn't seem to address why the levels are rising or why the temperatures are rising. He just says 'we aren't doing it' and uses a round about study of isotope ratios to prove it. My link also uses isotope studies to show that we are causing it, so......who is right?
That is definitely part of the problem but at least he has actual data with stable science and models that can be counted on.

The IPCC isn't even following scientific guidelines for a theory.

I see a very clear agenda being promoted at the cost of actual science and research.

It would be very helpful if those who are muddying the water, would back off and let actual science discover what actually is going on.
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post #209 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 02:46 PM
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Re: Climate Change

The price tag on this fallacy was 100 billion $ to the us taxpayer (where it ultimately filters down to). Payable to an international money fund so countries like China and India could use it to lower their omissions? I'm sure it would be well controlled, managed, etc.

It's more of an "I feel, I think, I believe" so it must be true.

If you remember back it was originally global warming until all the cold weather hit and didn't fit their agenda so it was changed to climate change.

France jumped on that bandwagon until the citizens started rioting in the streets.
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post #210 of 575 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 02:52 PM
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Re: Climate Change

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If you remember back it was originally global warming until all the cold weather hit and didn't fit their agenda so it was changed to climate change.
Or it could be this: https://www.newsmax.com/FastFeatures.../14/id/607457/
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