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post #91 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 11:07 PM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Originally Posted by Red Sonja View Post
Describing a medical procedure as "breaking out the spatula" is flippant in my book. Although, @Diana7 has posted worse.

This is an international forum, the discussion follows. My point is that children are treated as disposable chattel in much of the world (USA included) and that fact is at odds with the pro-life position.
Ah, yes... that was rather flippant. I apologize.

Yes this is an international forum, but this thread title is based on an action in a western style country and the subsequent discussion up to that point had been western focused.

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post #92 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 11:21 PM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Describing a medical procedure as "breaking out the spatula" is flippant in my book. Although, @Diana7 has posted worse.

This is an international forum, the discussion follows. My point is that children are treated as disposable chattel in much of the world (USA included) and that fact is at odds with the pro-life position.
I believe that people who think its ok to kill babies actually know what goes on when it happens. Those who think its ok will usually not find out for themselves as they like to think its just a cluster of cells. That's very far from the truth. Its messy, horrible and very disturbing what these babies have to endure, especially those who are over a few weeks old.
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post #93 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 12:23 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
Those who think its ok will usually not find out for themselves as they like to think its just a cluster of cells.
I don't allow them this cope out, they know full well it's a baby.

Prov. 8:36....''those who hate God love death.''

At conception a unique human is formed with unique DNA and a unique personality.

When people lack an objective moral standard, you end up with bafflegarble about heartbeats, consciousness, sentience, women's reproductive rights, cost, inconvenience, feelings...etc.

How many millstones with be around ''Dr'' Henry Morgentaler's neck I wonder?
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post #94 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 12:27 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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@Diana7, a foetus is not a child.
It isn't if it is forced out of its mother's womb. If that fetus has a heartbeat, then it sure as hell would be human if it was allowed to full term. How unfair that a not fully developed human can't defend him/ herself. Even the elderly get to decide whether or not they want to be resuscitated. I know I don't want to. I have a choice and a voice! A fetus with a heartbeat doesn't because society has decided he/she is not human because he is at this early stage of life completely dependent on another human being to carry him/her to full term.

It doesn't make much sense to believe that if both beings have a heartbeat, only the mother is human and the one inside her womb is nothing at all. We know good and well that a human is alive if it has a heartbeat. Why is a fetus with a beating heart not human? Dehumanizing a fetus is why many can be insensitive to this issue and argue ad nauseum that it ain't human. How convenient for the humans that have a choice and use it eh?

Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
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post #95 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 12:54 AM
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Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Originally Posted by OnTheFly View Post


At conception a unique human is formed with unique DNA and a unique personality.

Our DNA is that unique from each other. And, we donít know how much of nurture v nature dictates the connection of the prefrontal cortex (personality).

Much of the extraembryonic tissue shares the DNA with the embryo and is discarded.


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post #96 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 02:56 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Originally Posted by As'laDain View Post
My sister was born unwanted. She had an amazing childhood compared to mine. Her adoptive parents were awesome. She was actually kinda spoiled, and then her parents died suddenly and she ended up going down a bad road until i found her in 2011.

My grandfather kicked my mother out when she was 15 because she refused to have an abortion. She worked with an adoption agency in florida called HUG(Help Unfortunate Girls) to give her daughter, by sister, up for adoption to a good family.

My grandfather was a real piece of work. He used to randomly show up at our house and take us(my two brothers and i) away from our house as a way of controlling my mother, until she snapped one day after filing a protective order against him(which he violated) and cut him from his neck to his hip. When he showed up without warning to take us away again.

My mother doesn't know how much i remember from those days. I dont really want to tell her. If it weren't for what i know about my grandfather, i would hate my mother. My mother was often horrible to us, but i know why. After dealing with my grandfather, i know why. So i dont hate her. I still cant trust her with everything, but i know she suffered far worse than i did. I have about 30 scars from my mothers outbursts. Last time i counted, my mother had about 400 scars, and most of them were from her adoptive father.

I trust her to genuinely love my daughter, but i don't trust her to be able to not trigger and do something she will regret.

My mother was adopted, my sister was adopted, my wife was adopted.

My younger brother was almost aborted. The doctors couldn't get a clear picture of his face, so they decided to abort the child on the assumption that he didn't have a face(cant remember what that birth defect is called...). Only, they didn't tell my mother. She found out because the nurse that was prepping her told her what she was there for. When the doctor came in, my mother slammed his face into the table she had been sitting next to. He was the one that ordered it.

My mother thought she was there for some kind of wellness check. She had no idea she had been scheduled for an abortion until the nurse mentioned it.
Never said that adoption never turns out right, it's simple statistics and maths for me. Orphans > Adoptees, therefore Abortions must > Orphans.
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post #97 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 03:00 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Never said that adoption never turns out right, it's simple statistics and maths for me. Orphans > Adoptees, therefore Abortions must > Orphans.
Please donít take this the wrong way but youíre talking through your ass.
This isnít a glut of some products on the market, these are babies you are taking about.
You were one yourself at some stage.

When someone says itís not the money itís the principle,itís always the money.
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post #98 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 03:03 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Originally Posted by Andy1001 View Post
Please donít take this the wrong way but youíre talking through your ass.
This isnít a glut of some products on the market, these are babies you are taking about.
You were one yourself at some stage.
If you say so.
Yes, I was a baby too, and... your point exactly?

Short term compassion is irrelevant to long term consequences.
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post #99 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 05:31 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Short term compassion is irrelevant to long term consequences.
Try and remember these are babies you are talking about, not some vegetables that you grew in your garden and canít use.

When someone says itís not the money itís the principle,itís always the money.
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post #100 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 05:35 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Originally Posted by As'laDain View Post
My sister was born unwanted. She had an amazing childhood compared to mine. Her adoptive parents were awesome. She was actually kinda spoiled, and then her parents died suddenly and she ended up going down a bad road until i found her in 2011.

My grandfather kicked my mother out when she was 15 because she refused to have an abortion. She worked with an adoption agency in florida called HUG(Help Unfortunate Girls) to give her daughter, by sister, up for adoption to a good family.

My grandfather was a real piece of work. He used to randomly show up at our house and take us(my two brothers and i) away from our house as a way of controlling my mother, until she snapped one day after filing a protective order against him(which he violated) and cut him from his neck to his hip. When he showed up without warning to take us away again.

My mother doesn't know how much i remember from those days. I dont really want to tell her. If it weren't for what i know about my grandfather, i would hate my mother. My mother was often horrible to us, but i know why. After dealing with my grandfather, i know why. So i dont hate her. I still cant trust her with everything, but i know she suffered far worse than i did. I have about 30 scars from my mothers outbursts. Last time i counted, my mother had about 400 scars, and most of them were from her adoptive father.

I trust her to genuinely love my daughter, but i don't trust her to be able to not trigger and do something she will regret.

My mother was adopted, my sister was adopted, my wife was adopted.

My younger brother was almost aborted. The doctors couldn't get a clear picture of his face, so they decided to abort the child on the assumption that he didn't have a face(cant remember what that birth defect is called...). Only, they didn't tell my mother. She found out because the nurse that was prepping her told her what she was there for. When the doctor came in, my mother slammed his face into the table she had been sitting next to. He was the one that ordered it.

My mother thought she was there for some kind of wellness check. She had no idea she had been scheduled for an abortion until the nurse mentioned it.
Your mother sounds like a feisty and determined woman to have fought to keep her baby and have her adopted. Good for her. I hate it when people say that no baby should be unwanted as a reason to kill them. There are countless people who cant have children who want those 'unwanted' babies. I am sure given the chance those babies unwanted by their parents would have loved to actually have been able to have had a life rather than be flushed away like rubbish.

Of course those who are pro the killing of unborn babies will use every trick/excuse/lie in the book to try and justify their awful actions. It doesn't wash and one day they will be held accountable.

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post #101 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 05:39 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Originally Posted by OnTheFly View Post
I don't allow them this cope out, they know full well it's a baby.

Prov. 8:36....''those who hate God love death.''

At conception a unique human is formed with unique DNA and a unique personality.

When people lack an objective moral standard, you end up with bafflegarble about heartbeats, consciousness, sentience, women's reproductive rights, cost, inconvenience, feelings...etc.

How many millstones with be around ''Dr'' Henry Morgentaler's neck I wonder?
Yes, and all those who support these appalling killings of defenceless and innocent and vulnerable babies.
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post #102 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 06:04 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Gee... I wonder why people aren't freaking out about the actual children in actual cages, the actual children in actual poverty in your country, or the theoretical children (fertilized eggs) in actual cold storage by the thousands across your country.

It's because it isn't about children at all. It's about who gets control over women's bodies.
But it's not just the womans body involved here, if it was I would agree with you.

I too find celebrating the decriminalising of abortion very sad. No matter which side of the fence you're on.
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post #103 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 10:00 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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@Diana7, a foetus is not a child.
Indeed. Some 10 to 20 per cent of foetuses will not develop into a child at all, simply because they are not developing properly. The real number is probably higher still because in fact quite a number of embryos are miscarried before the woman even knows she is pregnant. Webmd puts the number at 50% of pregnancies ending in miscarriage.

There are so many things that very commonly go wrong in pregnancies that it really isn't fair to equate "pregnant" with "rapidly developing child".

Last edited by wild jade; 09-28-2019 at 10:06 AM.
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post #104 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 10:11 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Originally Posted by Rocky Mountain Yeti View Post
I'm not sure how nonexistence is preferable to life, even if it's a struggle. That's a pretty dark vision.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism

Basically, the idea that the pleasure that life brings isnít as good as the pain can (will be) bad.



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post #105 of 155 (permalink) Old 09-28-2019, 10:12 AM
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Re: Good News! Abortion is Decriminalised

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Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
There are countless people who cant have children who want those 'unwanted' babies. I am sure given the chance those babies unwanted by their parents would have loved to actually have been able to have had a life rather than be flushed away like rubbish.
If that is true, why are there thousands of children all over the US waiting for adoption? Why are there millions around the world?
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