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post #16 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 12:16 AM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Originally Posted by OnTheFly View Post
Yup.

Trump will need funding for another wall....the length of California. Better yet, extend it to British Columbia.
Yeah. I worked with a guy who grew up in Taxxachussetts. His family moved down here when he was a teenager.

One time, he complained about the scarcity of street lamps outside of municipalities. He bragged about how almost anywhere you went in Massachusetts, the streets were lit. Unlike here, where you have to depend upon the unreliable oil lamps in front of your car to see if one of Hannibal's elephants has wandered onto the road.

I then asked him why his family had moved down here.

Him: "Well, the taxes were too damn high!"

Me: "Huh. Imagine that."

Yankee: "What?"

Me: "Well, if the state and counties are putting up light poles, and paying the utility for electricity, how is that being paid for?"

Him: "I, I never really thought about that..."

Me: "Property taxes, mostly."

Couple of beats later, he said: "Still, I think the lights would be worth it."


“If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to.” Dorothy Parker

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post #17 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 08:16 AM
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The Hidden State in The U.S.

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I am not positive that both parents were US citizens ??

It takes about $29.40 an hour in total family wages just to survive in California. (according to the article)

I did mix apples and oranges, but both are living in the same neighborhoods. The poor and the illegals. They are in competition with each other for sparse resources and jobs.

The illegals in this country absorb the resources that citizens might find available. Estimates are that there are 11 to 22 million illegals in this country.

And, most of them are not permitted to work. Uh, how dumb is that?

We expect them to survive and not break any more laws?
Or not to end up homeless.

I agree with the list the government made as to why there is so much homelessness. For political correctness they do not mention how illegals cost local governments millions of dollars in education, in social services, in lost taxes, in taking up bed space and food availability for the citizen poor.

Illegals overwhelm the system in bigger metro areas. Plus, some gang members prey on each other and on American citizens who live in the mix.


The illegal immigration numbers have been declining since 2007, when it was at its peak of approximately 12 million.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/il...on-statistics/

I think the American people just don’t want to take responsibility for what they’ve done to themselves. Considering these illegals you’re referring to only make up about 3.3 to 3.7 percent of the US population.

You know, to live comfortably just about anywhere in this great country of ours it takes about $30/hour... it’s not just California that is suffering. But you want to blame that on the 3.3 to 3.7 percent of illegals.. put blame where blame is due, you can start with wealth inequality in this country. I live and work in a very small town, I came here from a very large city to be a stay at home mom, thinking we won’t have to make as much money to live on living in a small town. I was wrong. And my husband bailed on me for another woman after I had given up my house, my job, pretty much everything that I had. I’m stuck in this small town now that doesn’t have **** for jobs and if it weren’t for his court ordered child support I couldn’t make it. If he quits paying, I have no recourse.. sure I can drag it through the courts, but I don’t have the money for an attorney.. I’m barely making it as it is. I can’t move because he’d have a hissy fit, not to mention I don’t have the money for that either. American citizens from all walks of life are struggling... but the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer.. this has nothing to do with someone coming over from Mexico.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weal..._United_States

Also the US is making it harder for the poor, this just in today!

“Three proposed rule changes by the Trump administration could cause millions of poor people to lose access to food stamps and decrease the size of the benefit for millions more.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...mp/ncna1092866

And an interesting article about the immigration of the First Lady and her parents.. but immigration only bothers you when it’s the poor from Mexico right? These three new immigrants appear to have done it the “legal” way according to whatever article you want to believe, of course they had connections and money to make it happen. And for me that goes back to the wealth inequality sweeping our nation.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox...p-parents-visa


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post #18 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

Of course there is wealth inequality.

And why is that?

The list is not long.

Our education system is failing us. It is not training people for the jobs of the future.

And, and, and, it is parents who do not insure that their children learn the basics.

How to read.
How to do basic arithmetic.
How to speak properly so that they can be employable.
How to act properly in society.
How to dress and appear properly so as to get jobs.

US history and World History and Economics is not taught properly in our high schools.

Nor, is geography. Pick some small country, say New Zealand, or Chili, ask our citizens where these countries are.
Good luck with getting an answer.

Not the parents fault, only society at large?

Only the governments fault?
Only conservatives fault?

Personal responsibility does not apply?

Of course, our homeless troubles and housing troubles are not attributable to only illegals.
This was the tragic topic I highlighted.

Our problems are complex and the whole of humanity is facing these same problems....since the beginning of time.
Nothing new here.

OK, some number a little less than 11,000,000 illegals is still monstrous. Divide that number into our 57 BHO states and you have a problem.


Estimates are at ~113 billion per year. 2017 estimate with 12.5 million illegals in the country.

Those that do not like this number put it at less, but then say, "We don't really know". Ignoring how the 135 billion was derived.

Another number stated was $8100 per year and $82,000 over the lifetime of each illegal. Only ten years here?

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out. The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall.
The Host, Rd is ill, any years left, remain now, in doubt? Red Dog is now lost to us.
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post #19 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

What is the ultimate answer?

It is a simple and painful answer.

There is not a one world government (thank God).

There are only individual governments.

We cannot manage the world, take care of the whole worlds problems. We cannot.
We do not have the resources, the will or the talent.

The rest of the world would and should RESIST.

They are sovereign nations, as are we.

We have to put our own house in order and keep it that way.

In the near future we are going to need to isolate ourselves as much as possible from the rest of the world. We cannot let other's problems take us down.

Yes, we need trade, yes, we need to play fair and be nice.

WE HAVE TO SET THE EXAMPLE FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD.

Since we are the wealthiest nation.

Hah! Not a chance with the politicians and media fools and the legal sharks and lefty educators we have running this country.


We have created our own problems.

Our country is a Representative Democracy and we have failed miserably our Constitution.

We elect idiots and short sighted power hungry buffoons.

We must manage our problem without having a dictatorial government. Good luck with that.

Individual citizens are like cats, they will do as they please and pee on other peoples furniture and lives.

Nothing new....

Humanity is just not up to the task.
Never was.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out. The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall.
The Host, Rd is ill, any years left, remain now, in doubt? Red Dog is now lost to us.
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post #20 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 10:39 AM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Originally Posted by GAgirl912 View Post
The illegal immigration numbers have been declining since 2007 (when it was at its peak of approximately 12 million) and has been declining ever since.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/il...on-statistics/
I disagree that anyone can even come close to a correct number on the amount of illegals here. Did they turn themselves in for a census? Where are they getting this estimate from the climate change folks? The number is likely at least double that. The amount of illegals entering through the southern border has dropped since the new wall has been erected. It is a start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAgirl912 View Post
I think the American people just don’t want to take responsibility for what they’ve done to themselves. Considering these illegals you’re referring to only make up about 3.3 to 3.7 percent of the US population.

You know, to live comfortably just about anywhere in this great country of ours it takes about $30/hour... it’s not just California that is suffering. But you want to blame that on the 3.3 to 3.7 percent of illegals.. put blame where blame is due, you can start with wealth inequality in this country.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weal..._United_States
I can only imagine that you mean Americans(citizens of the USA?) have voted into office, people like Trump. The issue is, either one side gives help to big business or the other. They both do it. It's just a difference in who gets the tax dollars. Though, the democratic socialists want to take all our money and redistributed it the way they see fit.

The poor will only get poorer and a huge black market will arise to take what little those poor have to supplement what the government does not produce enough of. You know the rich will buy up products and resell them at high prices, or you will get none. Widespread hunger and a lack of goods for everyday living will ensue and violence will not be tolerated. Folks will be imprisoned for protesting. Unlike the violent Antifa, those protesters will be considered traitors.

No one is going to pay that much for an un/under educated employee starting out. Are you interested in helping the poor or Bachelor Degree college grads with loans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAgirl912 View Post
Also the US is making it harder for the poor, this just in today!

“Three proposed rule changes by the Trump administration could cause millions of poor people to lose access to food stamps and decrease the size of the benefit for millions more.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...mp/ncna1092866
I disagree with his plan. I tend to agree with this article. https://worcesterfoodpolicycouncil.o...inners-losers/

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAgirl912 View Post
And an interesting article about the immigration of the First Lady and her parents.. but illegal immigration only bothers you when it’s the poor from Mexico right? These three new immigrants appear to have done it the “legal” way according to whatever article you want to believe, of course they had connections and money to make it happen. And for me that goes back to the wealth inequality sweeping our nation.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox...p-parents-visa


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What bothers me about it is they are breaking the law. A country without borders is not a country. I'm not saying they don't work hard. Many send money home to help family and then plan on moving home at retirement age, taking money out of our economy. It's a greater issue than just illegally entering, illegally working, and illegally living here.

You have sort of corroborated the fact that we have a broken system for the poor and that these folks are coming in and taking jobs that the poor citizens of this country need. I know. They don't want them because they are not $30/hr. Well, those jobs will never pay more as long as folks are willing to work for much less than the jobs would normally pay without them. That's something to consider. No one has a right to come here, just as you don't have a right to go to one of the Nordic model countries and cop a squat. Try it, then get back to us.


The Nordic model countries and most of the EU are reeling with issues caused by immigrants. They refuse to take more. Is that the model we desire? Greece is being crushed by immigrants. The island of Lesbos is overcrowded with immigrants, some of which are breaking into small businesses and robbing them of their cash. Sound familiar?

Yes, it's happening here. We don't even know them and we release them because we think they deserve more than our own citizens. The pity you and others have for them will ruin our country, turning it into California. We don't need that. We don't want that. We want them to come here and love this country. We want them to do well and create more jobs for folks through the successful operation of businesses which they start.

If you want to increase the wages of those who are truly poor, not college grads who already make a great deal more, but have chosen to over borrow on the income they will make, then we need competition. Flooding the nation with poor will cause wages to drop further. Benefits are nonexistent because of a lack of competition and the government changing laws.

No, offering them more will only increase the speed at which we(the United States of America) decline. That would be great for China and Russia. The situation today is very sad.

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post #21 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 10:51 AM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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WE HAVE TO SET THE EXAMPLE FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD. Since we are the wealthiest nation.
No we don't. If we take care of our own and prosper, those countries that can, will try to do the same. Corruption is everywhere. It is greater in poor countries. Muslims killing and torturing, countries fighting for scraps, is normal around the world and has been for many years. WE cannot change them unless we crush them and take over their nations. We cannot bring them all here because we feel bad. We cannot save the world.

We are so arrogant in this country believing we have a right and responsibility to tell everyone else in the world how to live, when we cannot take care of our own homeless and poor. What will we show them, if we cannot do it ourselves? What will they learn from us?

We need to get our own house in order, first. Adding poor illegals to our population is only creating a greater crisis.

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post #22 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 11:11 AM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Originally Posted by SunCMars View Post
Of course there is wealth inequality.

And why is that?

The list is not long.

Our education system is failing us. It is not training people for the jobs of the future.

And, and, and, it is parents who do not insure that their children learn the basics.

How to read.
How to do basic arithmetic.
How to speak properly so that they can be employable.
How to act properly in society.
How to dress and appear properly so as to get jobs.

US history and World History and Economics is not taught properly in our high schools.

Nor, is geography. Pick some small country, say New Zealand, or Chili, ask our citizens where these countries are.
Good luck with getting an answer.

Not the parents fault, only society at large?

Only the governments fault?
Only conservatives fault?

Personal responsibility does not apply?

Of course, our homeless troubles and housing troubles are not attributable to only illegals.
This was the tragic topic I highlighted.

Our problems are complex and the whole of humanity is facing these same problems....since the beginning of time.
Nothing new here.

OK, some number a little less than 11,000,000 illegals is still monstrous. Divide that number into our 57 BHO states and you have a problem.


Estimates are at ~113 billion per year. 2017 estimate with 12.5 million illegals in the country.

Those that do not like this number put it at less, but then say, "We don't really know". Ignoring how the 135 billion was derived.

Another number stated was $8100 per year and $82,000 over the lifetime of each illegal. Only ten years here?

So wealth inequality is attributed to a lack of education? Really? I’ve got a 4 year degree, I was continuously in the workforce for 17 years before stepping out to be a stay at home mom for a bit over 6 years. My ex on the other hand is a construction worker, didn’t graduate high school, spent 8 to 10 years in our prison system, but is now making 4 times as much as I could ever dream of making in this small town that doesn’t have jobs for my background. And the jobs that there are in my background pay just over the minimum non livable wage. And training for any other job takes money (which I don’t have) or takes on more debt.. not appealing at my age. Yes, I blame our society.

And more on the illegal immigration costs you’re trying to argue.

“The Congressional Budget Office reported in 2007 that "the tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to them" but "in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use."[9] Unauthorized immigrants create demand for goods and services[10] while an estimated 50 to 75 percent pay taxes.[9] Due to cheaper labor, they contribute to lower prices in the industries where they work, such as agriculture, restaurants, and construction.[10]”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econ..._United_States

I’m curious though.. what are the 57 BHO states?



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post #23 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 11:22 AM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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You have sort of corroborated the fact that we have a broken system for the poor and that these folks are coming in and taking jobs that the poor citizens of this country need. .


When the hell did I say that??? I don’t think our illegal immigration problem is a problem at all.. not sure when I alluded to anything remotely close to what you’re saying.


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post #24 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

Our immigration system is not a problem at all?

I/We cannot help you with your mindset.

Your four year degree did not help you with the 'presented' concept of immigration and its problems.
The education system failed you. You need to admit that.

If you would, please tell us what your degree is in?
Small towns do not accommodate many degrees. You may have to move.

If you majored in a Liberal Arts field you may be out of luck.
These degrees teach you wonderful things, but they do not afford you a job or career.

Skilled trade jobs are in demand due to all the boomers retiring.
Unfortunately, these jobs are often looked down on in America.

And while they only require a high school education, there is much on the job training,and/or apprenticeships.
An bonafide apprenticeship is a valuable education.

Some are four year programs.
Again, not viewed that way by many Americans.

Many skilled trade jobs do not pay much per hour (in this expensive economy) but the overtime available makes them lucrative.

A good technician can make as much or more than an Engineer.
However, he must give up his leisure time and work weekends and daily overtime.

It is a trade off.
And not really an ideal one, since we live such short lives.

All those extra hours worked, take a person away from his family, (wife or husband and children).

Uh, not everybody should go to college and if you do, pick a field that has demand.

Life is competitive, all over the world, not just in the USA.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .

Uh, Google, "BHO 57 states". That was meant as a joke.

This guy did not know how many states we have in this country. See below.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=BHO+57+sta...ai=EpGH02DtIws



Proof, that the education system is broken and teachers/parents did not insure that all children/students have a basic grasp of geography.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out. The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall.
The Host, Rd is ill, any years left, remain now, in doubt? Red Dog is now lost to us.
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post #25 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 12:14 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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When the hell did I say that??? I don’t think our illegal immigration problem is a problem at all.. not sure when I alluded to anything remotely close to what you’re saying.


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I think it was all in your posts about:

1. the poor needing help to get off the streets

2. the poor needing better housing

3. the poor having issues feeding themselves

4. the poor immigrants coming into this country illegally to find a better life and not having a place to live or food to eat

5. the government not giving folks what they need

6. the government attempting to give money to the business community in exchange for market share of the free food industry

7. the poor immigrants not being able to find jobs that allow them to live a decent life

8. when you said that folks need jobs that pay approximately $30/hr to make a decent living, I assume you are including illegal immigrants from every country that come through the southern border since you seemed to focus on Mexico?


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post #26 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 12:14 PM
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The Hidden State in The U.S.

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If you would, please tell us what your degree is in?
Small towns do not accommodate many degrees. You may have to move.


Proof, that the education system is broken and teachers/parents did not insure that all children/students have a basic grasp of geography.

Nah.. but if you would read what I wrote, you’d know that I can’t move yet.. my ex would have a hissy fit.

Also, I don’t ever remember being so worried about illegal immigration, it wasn’t anything anyone in my circle worried about anyway. This is a new concept aka hysteria created at some point over the last several years.




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post #27 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

It is being touted that over 30% of Millennial s in the USA like the idea of socialism.

Huh? How is this possible?

Each generation merely says, "Those other countries just did not do it 'right'. It will work if done properly".
History is lost on them.

Again, another failure of our education system. Proving that left leaning teachers are pushing this agenda.

Every socialist attempt has failed.

Sweden is not a true socialist country.

Very small countries that have a highly educated populace and have some money coming in from oil and natural gas can survive a limited form of socialism.

Socialism does not work.
People will not work hard if they are not rewarded for their effort.
And socialism works until there is no more money to give away.

Socialism is only good at creating depressed alcoholics and drug addicts.
Uh, more so than in our country!!


Socialism fall to dictatorships, then followed by total communism.

Communism is the same thing we all hate. Ten percent of the population live well, the rest suffer and just get by.
Also, this outcome via Islamic tyrannies.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out. The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall.
The Host, Rd is ill, any years left, remain now, in doubt? Red Dog is now lost to us.
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

@GAgirl912

I should ask you why?

Why are you arguing with a guy who associates with Leprechauns and Red Queens?

Just a thought.


Lilith-

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out. The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall.
The Host, Rd is ill, any years left, remain now, in doubt? Red Dog is now lost to us.
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post #29 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 12:39 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Originally Posted by GAgirl912 View Post
Nah.. but if you would read what I wrote, you’d know that I can’t move yet.. my ex would have a hissy fit.

Also, I don’t ever remember being so worried about illegal immigration, it wasn’t anything anyone in my circle worried about anyway. This is a new concept aka hysteria created at some point over the last several years.




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The hysteria is all in your comments about how we are going to help these folks. You don't realize you are saying the same thing that everyone else is. You don't have a good solution, either. No one seems to have a good solution, therefore hysteria develops when we realize there is a crisis. We ignored it because it was isolated. Now, it's become such an issue for those few states, it has spilled over into other states with sanctuary cities. Guess where it started? California, Florida, New York and Texas for the most part are at the forefront of this issue. The rest of us have to somehow clean up those states mistakes. We can't, either. Just a few states made it a national issue.

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post #30 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 12:41 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Originally Posted by SunCMars View Post
@GAgirl912

I should ask you why?

Why are you arguing with a guy who associates with Leprechauns and Red Queens?

Just a thought.


Lilith-
LOL

You are pretty messed up. I sort of like it.

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