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post #121 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:26 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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What does it mean then when you say it was inevitable?

What does it mean when you say they are not indigenous?



Again, what culture specifically is being destroyed?

Who specifically is destroying it?
lol


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post #122 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:26 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Look into the constitutionality of it instead.
Sorry, Iím not American, Iím not sure I understand. Can something be unconstitutional and legal in America?
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post #123 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:28 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Originally Posted by Tasorundo View Post
It's not your thread, so no one requested your presence either. It wasn't a private discussion anyway.

What I posted wasn't a strawman. You have said we must lock down the border and not deal with the humanitarian issues outside the walls we built. That is exactly what I am saying you said. You feel that people within the walls are more worthy than those outside of it, simply because they are inside them. Well, inside of them legally according to your laws. Otherwise, they need to be put outside of them where they can take their place of having no value.

I am arguing that we can move past this all. Resources are not scarce, they are only being horded. We can make the world a better place, we can make this place a better place for everyone. That is all I am in support of. People being more open to having less so that all can have more. People being able to realize the amazing things they take for granted and how much of the world goes without basic things, while we squabble about luxuries.
I said it first. Na na na nana. lol

You aren't arguing anything relevant. You're just arguing for fun.

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post #124 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:32 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Sorry, I’m not American, I’m not sure I understand. Can something be unconstitutional and legal in America?
Yes, depending on the number and interpretation of the Supreme Court Justices influenced by a particular party, ideology or personal feelings. They are human, after all, with all the greed, and avarice anyone else has. They are supposed to suspend their feelings and affiliations when they determine what was meant by the founding fathers. They don't always do that. Many times, they do not look at the full context of the discussion, but only their favorite founding father that backs their predetermined position.

This is evidenced by the election of differing justices depending on the administration and majority party of the Senate. If it were not so, all parties would agree to a candidate that only interprets the Constitution, not those leaning one way or another. Just look at those justices for and against abortion. What a fight that is between the parties. Wow! lol

They both want someone who is not just and impartial. That's pretty messed up.

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post #125 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:34 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Yes, depending on the number and interpretation of the Supreme Court Justices influenced by a particular party, ideology or personal feelings. They are human, after all, with all the greed, and avarice anyone else has. They are supposed to suspend their feelings and affiliations when they determine what was meant by the founding fathers. They don't always do that. Many times, they do not look at the full context of the discussion, but only their favorite founding father that backs their predetermined position.

This is evidenced by the election of differing justices depending on the administration and majority party of the Senate.
It looks like the answer is Ďmaybe:í

The legality of DACA and its proposed expansions were challenged in court. But only the expansions were halted under a preliminary injunction. Legal experts are divided as to the constitutionality of DACA[71] and one district court has ruled it to be likely illegal.[3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defe...dhood_Arrivals
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post #126 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Originally Posted by Tasorundo View Post
It's not your thread, so no one requested your presence either. It wasn't a private discussion anyway.

What I posted wasn't a strawman. You have said we must lock down the border and not deal with the humanitarian issues outside the walls we built. That is exactly what I am saying you said. You feel that people within the walls are more worthy than those outside of it, simply because they are inside them. Well, inside of them legally according to your laws. Otherwise, they need to be put outside of them where they can take their place of having no value.

I am arguing that we can move past this all. Resources are not scarce, they are only being horded. We can make the world a better place, we can make this place a better place for everyone. That is all I am in support of. People being more open to having less so that all can have more. People being able to realize the amazing things they take for granted and how much of the world goes without basic things, while we squabble about luxuries.
Uh, Wowee!

Stay away from my wallet and our Sovereign State.

We are not the worlds policeman, nor the worlds landlord, nor the world only charity.


The United State's present level of "unfunded liabilities" is scary and maddening.

Our present National Debt is ~23 Trillion dollars.

Our present 'total' yearly tax revenue is 3.5 Trillion

Where do you get off saying we can do more?

To do more for others on the other side of our border(s), we will need to do less for those inside our border(s).

We are a country, not a piggy bank for everyone else in the world.

Did your Mum not tell you that money does not grown on trees?
Hmm?

OK, I too, wish things were different.

Alas, they are not, and will not get better, anytime soon.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out. The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall.
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post #127 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:41 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Uh, Wowee!

Stay away from my wallet and our Sovereign State.

We are not the worlds policeman, nor the worlds landlord, nor the world only charity.


The United State's present level of "unfunded liabilities" is scary and maddening.

Our present National Debt is ~23 Trillion dollars.

Our present 'total' yearly tax revenue is 3.5 Trillion

Where do you get off saying we can do more?

To do more for others on the other side of our border(s), we will need to do less for those inside our border(s).

We are a country, not a piggy bank for everyone else in the world.

Did your Mum not tell you that money does not grown on trees?
Hmm?

OK, I too, wish things were different.

Alas, they are not, and will not get better, anytime soon.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/
I agree. America cannot do it on its own.

But the world can.
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post #128 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:44 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Sure, I’m very glad you asked. Here’s a good resource (although Canadian): https://www.ictinc.ca/blog/what-reco...what-it-is-not



Do you mean define a homogenous culture?

There are very few left. Pre-Meiji Japan comes to mind.



And how many other things were available to you that weren’t available to others simply by virtue of being born where, when, and to who you were?

I wasn’t aware of my own privilege until recently. Still only marginally aware of it.

What would you do, if you could do anything?
1. We aren't discussing Canada, eh. lol

2. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homogeneous My interpretation is one in which we are all for the welfare of the USA and it's citizens. Everything else is up to the individual, as was meant to be.

3. Nothing

4. personal

What about you? Who would you like to take care of at home, illegally? lol

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post #129 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

If we cannot help ourselves.
If we cannot make peace in our own country.
If we do not have enough money and resources to lift everyone in our country out of poverty.
Especially those who will not or who cannot work.

And do so, without collapsing our economy, without creating class warfare, how can we help others....outside our own borders?

We cannot do much.

We need to make our country as strong as possible.

Why?

To keep ourselves safe from the *Huns who will soon override us.
The two oceans, East and West, will no longer isolate us and save us from destruction.

Missiles can touch us.

Suddenly, and with little prior notice.

*The Huns are some past, some future foe, who will show us no mercy.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out. The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall.
With The Host, RD back will there be any interest in telling Tales? Red Dog longs for his master?
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post #130 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:47 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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I agree. America cannot do it on its own.

But the world can.
bahahaha

You're arguing about this in this thread and then you think the world will get together? See what I mean that you guys live in a dream world? OMG I'm done here.


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post #131 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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I agree. America cannot do it on its own.

But the world can.
But they haven't and will not.

What good did The League of Nations do?
What has the United Nations done to correct world poverty?

What can they do?

Bring water to North Africa?
Bring peace to the Middle East?

Supply cheap energy to the world?

Eliminate repressive regimes?

Create enough good paying jobs for China, India, and the rest of the world.

Nope, not a chance.

Woulda? Shoulda? Coulda? .....yes.

In reality, sadly, just, not a chance.

WHO is going to make this world a better place?

History is proof that Mankind is rather much, ah, just too flawed.

Knowing this, protect and strengthen our own, help others as best as one can.

Is this a selfish stance?
Yes, and one that will keep 'us' (U.S.) and our 'likely' future alive.

Us and them, never lost favor with this, our Fate.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out. The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall.
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post #132 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 02:00 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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So if they’re sustainable, and self reliant - including having their own language and culture? That’s fine then?



Right. So this magical thing that only you understand and cannot define is that which all immigrants must jettison their own culture for.

Should you put on a class for how to be an American or something? Coast to coast, see to shining sea a homogenous culture that only you get to define?

Land of the free?



I have done all those things and more and disagree with you.




This may surprise you, but to many other cultures Americans are the biggest takers that exist.

Even inside your culture, east coast says it’s the West coast, and vice versa. Middle America looks around and feels left out because the coasts get all the economic action.

And on and on.



Again, you’re arguing this thing you can’t define is the thing that everyone should live by?

How do you know what you know? Didn’t Mark Twain say something about the stuff that is wrong but you know for sure being the stuff that gets you in trouble?
Seems the point I was trying to make is clouded by the readers own preconceptions. You’re speaking to the choir on majority of you quotes above.

If you lived 2 years alone with only a sleeping bag and supplying yourself in the elements Were you able to garner no appreciation for what was provided and necessity of learning of the old ways?
How did you eat? Did you eat what you hunted or trapped? What you knew to dig up or knew was good to eat?
Have you not grown up in a region, and seen it’s degradation through conflict of cultures?


About Americans being the biggest takers.
I’ve said the same for over 35 years. American culture is not my culture. One can live in it without being of it.
My grandparents who lived through the depression gave me an understanding.
My discussion has nothing to do with being an American. It’s about being a conscientious caretaker.

How do we know what’s right?
That which does away with destruction and consumerism.

Do we really need another mall bad enough to take out 10 acres of food producing trees?
Or 3 acres of them gone for 8 more bill boards to promote more consumerism/ destruction?

What does immigration do to an area other than set in motion more destruction?


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post #133 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 02:06 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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1. We aren't discussing Canada, eh. lol
Sure, I guess, but you asked me to define reconciliation, so I did?

Quote:
2. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homogeneous My interpretation is one in which we are all for the welfare of the USA and it's citizens. Everything else is up to the individual, as was meant to be.
Sounds dangerously liberal and socialist... just kiddin!

Quote:
3. Nothing

4. personal

What about you? Who would you like to take care of at home, illegally? lol
Take care of at home illegally? Well for one thing, I'd like to ensure Celine Dion and Justin Bieber stay in the US permanently. Or at least out of Canada.

Well, to be fair, the last time my wife and I were in Vegas, we saw Celine Dion and she was super funny on stage. So maybe she can summer here or something. But you can keep the beebs.
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post #134 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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I wasnít aware it was illegal. Iíll look into that.
President Obama created some of DACA by Presidential decree, by an Executive Order, I believe??

If true, it can be reversed by Executive Order.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out. The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall.
With The Host, RD back will there be any interest in telling Tales? Red Dog longs for his master?
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post #135 of 141 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 02:19 PM
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Re: The Hidden State in The U.S.

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Seems the point I was trying to make is clouded by the readers own preconceptions. Youíre speaking to the choir on majority of you quotes above.

If you lived 2 years alone with only a sleeping bag and supplying yourself in the elements Were you able to garner no appreciation for what was provided and necessity of learning of the old ways?
Sure I do. My kids aren't as accomplished at survival skills as I am, but they know the basics.

Quote:
How did you eat? Did you eat what you hunted or trapped? What you knew to dig up or knew was good to eat?
I always tried to avoid hunting and trapping where possible, but it wasn't always possible. I learned the basics of what was good to eat and what wasn't from accomplished woodsman around, some native. Augmented heavily through good old fashioned book learning!

Quote:
Have you not grown up in a region, and seen itís degradation through conflict of cultures?
You bet. Also seen serious degradation of the ecosystem.

Quote:
About Americans being the biggest takers.
Iíve said the same for over 35 years. American culture is not my culture. One can live in it without being of it.
My grandparents who lived through the depression gave me an understanding.
My discussion has nothing to do with being an American. Itís about being a conscientious caretaker.
Then I salute you, sir.

Quote:
How do we know whatís right?
That which does away with destruction and consumerism.

Do we really need another mall bad enough to take out 10 acres of food producing trees?
Or 3 acres of them gone for 8 more bill boards to promote more consumerism/ destruction?

What does immigration do to an area other than set in motion more destruction?
Ok you had me up until that last line. What does immigration have to do with consumerism?
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