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post #121 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-17-2019, 04:18 PM
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Re: Brexit

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Scotland is considerably poorer that other Northern European nations of a similar size, such as Ireland, Denmark, Finland etc.

I am not sure being in the UK is helping that much.
The Scottish people have 20% more spent on them per head than we do in England. Their students have free tuition fees, our students have to pay £9,000 per year. They get free healthcare prescriptions. They also get free care for the elderly, in England we have to pay billions, and many have to sell their houses to pay. Yes they do very well out of being part of the UK.

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post #122 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-17-2019, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Brexit


He maybe on to something.
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post #123 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-17-2019, 09:39 PM
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Re: Brexit

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The Scottish people have 20% more spent on them per head than we do in England. Their students have free tuition fees, our students have to pay £9,000 per year. They get free healthcare prescriptions. They also get free care for the elderly, in England we have to pay billions, and many have to sell their houses to pay. Yes they do very well out of being part of the UK.

Wasn't that masterminded by Gordon Brown? I don't see how he got away with it. I didn't meet a handful of "oil wives" when I was in London. There is an expat group called the Petroleum Oil Wives' club.

Are oil, Donald's golf resorts, paperweights and whatever else going to be enough to sustain Scotland as a country?
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post #124 of 162 (permalink) Old 12-18-2019, 12:34 AM
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Re: Brexit

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He is. The hatred and bile spewed out by the lefties is appalling.
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post #125 of 162 (permalink) Old 01-31-2020, 10:31 PM
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Re: Brexit

I wonder how soon the ceiling is going to cave in on Britain.....shorty, I assume.
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post #126 of 162 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 12:12 AM
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Re: Brexit

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I wonder how soon the ceiling is going to cave in on Britain.....shorty, I assume.
No way, there may be many bumps in the road but its a great thing that we are becoming free of the EU's shackles.
Happy day

More countries will follow when they see that we have survived and even prospered outside of the EU, someone had to be first and it had to be a strong country to pave the way.

Last edited by Diana7; 02-01-2020 at 12:18 AM.
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post #127 of 162 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 03:49 AM
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Re: Brexit

We are in the Norway option-ish.

This was what Leave campaigned for during the referendum campaign.

The upside is there is limited economic impact. The downside is that we no longer vote people to the European Parliament or have any say in the decisions that affect us.

This has made some people happy though and is democracy being seen to be done.
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post #128 of 162 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 03:54 AM
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Re: Brexit

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Wasn't that masterminded by Gordon Brown? I don't see how he got away with it. I didn't meet a handful of "oil wives" when I was in London. There is an expat group called the Petroleum Oil Wives' club.

Are oil, Donald's golf resorts, paperweights and whatever else going to be enough to sustain Scotland as a country?
Generally, small nations in the north or Europe prosper. Larger nations do somewhat worse. While the GDP per head in Scotland is slightly higher than the UK as a whole, it is hugely behind that of Scandinavia, Iceland, Ireland etc

Leaving the EU can take three forms. To keep it simple, you can choose two from the following three:
- Leave the SM and customs union
- Preserve the Good Friday Agreement and so maintain peace and international relations
- Preserve Northern Ireland as intergral to the UK

At the moment, we have not done the first one. If we do, then there would need to be a hard border. We have not got to the point of the debate yet where hard brexitiers are willing to say specifically what they want yet.
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post #129 of 162 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 04:57 AM
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Re: Brexit

Johnson's and the ERG Group's only goal is a no deal Brexit... 11 months are not enough to have a proper agreement. Johnson is against a prorogation, so it will be no deal. This is why the ERG Group has been so quiet. Johnson must have promised them something. Also, prepare for a unified Ireland and the collapse of the United Kingdom when Scotland leaves...
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post #130 of 162 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 05:34 AM
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Re: Brexit

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Johnson's and the ERG Group's only goal is a no deal Brexit... 11 months are not enough to have a proper agreement. Johnson is against a prorogation, so it will be no deal. This is why the ERG Group has been so quiet. Johnson must have promised them something. Also, prepare for a unified Ireland and the collapse of the United Kingdom when Scotland leaves...
Indeed.

But, it is at the difficult bit. We have removed our leadership and influence, but that is a limited achievement to far. The downsides to that are more vague.

Now it gets tricky. It seems that no determined leaver will express an opinion on which of the three to drop:
- Leave the SM and customs union
- Preserve the Good Friday Agreement and so maintain peace and international relations
- Preserve Northern Ireland as intergral to the UK

This makes sense, as it will involve taking responsibility. It also involves accepting that not all the 17.4 million who vote Leave wanted the same thing.

For the ERG, it is vital that tax evasion and closetted accounting be permitted far more than it would in the EU and a drop in the standard of living for people in the UK and the threat to the union is a small price to pay for that. But, there will be many Leave supporters who will disagree.

We are at the point when everyone is broadly happy. The only loss is that the people of the UK will not be able to vote for the people to the EU who will make decisions and the British Government have less influence. But, that is a price that almost all Leavers are happy to pay, as @Diana7 shows.

What when the price goes up?

And, if the ERG are behaving because of a promise that Johnson has made them, then they are far stupider than I really believe they are.

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post #131 of 162 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 05:35 AM
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Re: Brexit

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No way, there may be many bumps in the road but its a great thing that we are becoming free of the EU's shackles.
Happy day

More countries will follow when they see that we have survived and even prospered outside of the EU, someone had to be first and it had to be a strong country to pave the way.
I live in Denmark, which is the mini-UK in attitudes to the EU. I live in central Copenhagen, so very pro-EU, but my rugby trips to the countryside show other views are out there.
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post #132 of 162 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 05:45 AM
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Re: Brexit

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I live in Denmark, which is the mini-UK in attitudes to the EU. I live in central Copenhagen, so very pro-EU, but my rugby trips to the countryside show other views are out there.
I'm actually from a EU country and I can tell you it's been a nightmare here... also because I live in a little town in the Midlands... thinking of moving back!
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post #133 of 162 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 05:46 AM
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Re: Brexit

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We are at the point when everyone is broadly happy.
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post #134 of 162 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 05:52 AM
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Re: Brexit

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These things are relative!

We have given up our power and influence in the EU, which were referred to as shackles on this thread.
We still have to follow the agreements, as our economy is tied to it.
It is not the idea scenario, particularly for a nation used to being one of the big three in the EU and punching well above its weight, but it is a sacrifice that was democratically decided.
There is not democratic mandate for going further though.
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post #135 of 162 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 05:53 AM
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Re: Brexit

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I'm actually from a EU country and I can tell you it's been a nightmare here... also because I live in a little town in the Midlands... thinking of moving back!
I lived in a small city in the midlands and got my doctorate there. Still one of the most international places that I have lived in.
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