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post #31 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-15-2019, 09:20 PM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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If you see the Democrats as out to destroy the proper social hierarchy and natural order, then the actions seem restrained.
Your England is coming out. You should remember to zip it back up. Otherwise, people might think that it is cold out.

In the U.S., it is not the case that Conservatives (Republicans) are trying to preserve some pseudo-Victorian social order, or that Labour (Democrats) represent the working class. The vast majority of large donors fund the Democrats - see, Obama - with larger numbers of tiny donors providing populist cover if the candidate is "populist" enough - , and a larger number of merely wealthy donors to the Republicans. Hell, Jeff "**** my Warehouse workers, I hope they die" Bezos bought the Washington Post in order to Yellow Journalism Trump out of office.

In the U.S., Labour represents the extremely rich, most of the managerial class (I'm guessing that you are one of these) and minorities - poor or otherwise. Tories represent wealthy business professional whites, working class whites, and increasingly poor whites.

As to the class designations, Most Americans don't understand them. Hell, most some-college and above Americans think "Working Class" equals poor. Bzzt. Wrong.


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post #32 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 01:55 AM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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Obviously.

That concept is what allowed humans (eons ago) to begin living in large non-family groups without absolute mayhem. It includes the basics of “don’t kill each other” and “don’t steal other people’s stuff”. Those basics have been codified in law and morality and, I might add they are older than the origins of religion.

That concept was also the precursor to large leaps in human evolution. So, what is your point? Are you saying it is a bad concept?
I am not an expert on anything (clearly, you might suggest!). My thought is to try and get at why each side can seem so unreasonable to the other, rather than judge either.
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post #33 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 01:55 AM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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Your England is coming out. You should remember to zip it back up. Otherwise, people might think that it is cold out.

In the U.S., it is not the case that Conservatives (Republicans) are trying to preserve some pseudo-Victorian social order, or that Labour (Democrats) represent the working class. The vast majority of large donors fund the Democrats - see, Obama - with larger numbers of tiny donors providing populist cover if the candidate is "populist" enough - , and a larger number of merely wealthy donors to the Republicans. Hell, Jeff "**** my Warehouse workers, I hope they die" Bezos bought the Washington Post in order to Yellow Journalism Trump out of office.

In the U.S., Labour represents the extremely rich, most of the managerial class (I'm guessing that you are one of these) and minorities - poor or otherwise. Tories represent wealthy business professional whites, working class whites, and increasingly poor whites.

As to the class designations, Most Americans don't understand them. Hell, most some-college and above Americans think "Working Class" equals poor. Bzzt. Wrong.
That is not related to what I wrote.
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post #34 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 02:04 AM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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Originally Posted by Red Sonja View Post
Obviously.

That concept is what allowed humans (eons ago) to begin living in large non-family groups without absolute mayhem. It includes the basics of “don’t kill each other” and “don’t steal other people’s stuff”. Those basics have been codified in law and morality and, I might add they are older than the origins of religion.

That concept was also the precursor to large leaps in human evolution. So, what is your point? Are you saying it is a bad concept?
Except, the societal rules are circumstantial. We still have a structure of society in our minds and what it should look like. People who are very kind, decent loving people seemed genuinely hugely upset when the President of the USA was brown, and decent men seemed very upset at #metoo as it represents change in how that society should look.

That change is disharmony.

All of us normally balance harmony over honesty, but do not admit it (suitably enough). It is normally a bigger taboo to call someone a liar rather than it is to tell a lie. So, when someone tells a lie for the sake of harmony and the other side call them a liar, both look unreasonable to the other.
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post #35 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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Except, the societal rules are circumstantial. We still have a structure of society in our minds and what it should look like. People who are very kind, decent loving people seemed genuinely hugely upset when the President of the USA was brown, and decent men seemed very upset at #metoo as it represents change in how that society should look.

That change is disharmony.

All of us normally balance harmony over honesty, but do not admit it (suitably enough). It is normally a bigger taboo to call someone a liar rather than it is to tell a lie. So, when someone tells a lie for the sake of harmony and the other side call them a liar, both look unreasonable to the other.
It is interesting how other people will cover for other people's lies. ie "Oh, maybe he / she forgot." no matter how severe the consequences of forgetting can be. .... how much that person might have gained from their negligence.
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post #36 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 10:03 AM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

I do not think the GOP is becoming vindictive, I'm hoping they are merely growing a backbone. The GOP has sat idly by and let the Dems run the show for far too long. It's about time they start fighting back.
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post #37 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 10:10 AM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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I do not think the GOP is becoming vindictive, I'm hoping they are merely growing a backbone. The GOP has sat idly by and let the Dems run the show for far too long. It's about time they start fighting back.
This is well said.

I do not see it that way, but it illustrates the different perspective very well. The world and society is changing. To Democrats, that is inevitable and natural, so we should go with the flow. To Republicans, society changing is needless and artificial and illustrates that the Democrats are having everything their own way.

It reminds me of the debate about Brexit. Remainers typically argue that we cannnot have a hard border with the EU and an open border with Ireland because that is just reality. To Leavers, it is the EU trying to punish us. Societal changes are sometimes articial political impositions and sometimes changing circumstance.
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post #38 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 01:41 PM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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It's bad enough that Trump goes after people very publicly .... including teenagers like Greta Thunberg.

Now we have the outgoing KY governor going on a pardon spree, pardoning some very unsavory criminals. Now the vengefulness is becoming more material.

https://kion546.com/news/politics/20...ice-this-week/
Greta put herself in a very public position on a very big political issue where it was 100% certain there would be strong disagreement with her position. She is responsible for being in the public eye and in the middle of controversy. Her parents are responsible. The wealthy people behind the scenes funding her are responsible. The media who are propping her up in public are responsible.

When she gets criticized it is fair game as a public figure. But I do feel sorry for her because at 16 she isn't really able to understand all the long term implications of what she has chosen to do. She was raised by activist parents and they are the main culprits in this.

She is being used by the left for their agenda. She is expendable to them. If she gets them some results, great. If not, they'll forget about her. The despicable ones here are the people using her, not the people disagreeing with her.
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post #39 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 01:46 PM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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It's bad enough that Trump goes after people very publicly .... including teenagers like Greta Thunberg.
Who was that kid who the media and leftists crucified for standing silently and smiling when he was harassed by the activist banging a drum in his face? All the kid did was nothing but stand there with his MAGA hat on. But he was branded a racist and the media promulgated lies that he was acting aggressively. Too bad when more video showed the truth of what happened, but then the media dropped the story without apologies.
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post #40 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 02:19 PM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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Who was that kid who the media and leftists crucified for standing silently and smiling when he was harassed by the activist banging a drum in his face? All the kid did was nothing but stand there with his MAGA hat on. But he was branded a racist and the media promulgated lies that he was acting aggressively. Too bad when more video showed the truth of what happened, but then the media dropped the story without apologies.

It was Nicholas Sandman (sp?) That young man is going to end up very wealthy after his numerous lawsuits are settled or tried. He deserves every dime he gets. The MSM was ruthless in the lies and slander they told about Nicholas. He has a fantastic lawyer - the same lawyer that represented Richard Jewell. He is a real bull dog attorney.

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post #41 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 02:49 PM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

I think Trumps tweet about Greta Thunberg was wrong. She has appeared in public
and given speeches about climate change. Disagree with her on those things all you
want, but not that way. This is just like when that person attacked his son Barron.
Who isn't a public person. Kids do not belong in politics, let them be kids.

I also don't think Hunter Bidens issues, personal demons or what ever should be
brought up in hearings. Ukraine corruption and did he profit from it and did his
father help is all.

MSM has and is going very low. Their ratings are also dropping because we all see it.
If they go low we should not go lower, then it turns into a back and forth thing.

If they go low we sue, making someones wallet lighter will hurt them more than words do.
Just like the adults who play dirty politics, jail time helps with that.

The alleged MSM has already started talking about First ladies Be-Best
program against cyber bulling. They got an excuse now to go after her
and something she is trying to accomplish. That is why you don't do those
things.

Never place anyone on a pedestal it hurts more when they fall off

Last edited by sa58; 12-16-2019 at 03:12 PM.
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post #42 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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It was Nicholas Sandman (sp?) That young man is going to end up very wealthy after his numerous lawsuits are settled or tried. He deserves every dime he gets. The MSM was ruthless in the lies and slander they told about Nicholas. He has a fantastic lawyer - the same lawyer that represented Richard Jewell. He is a real bull dog attorney.
I'm going to see that movie.
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post #43 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 04:04 PM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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The logical conclusion of global warming activists is for humans to cease existing.
No, that's the completely reductionist conclusion that assumes anything short of an "all or nothing" approach is useful.

Incremental change to our way of living got us into this mess, and will undoubtedly be responsible for getting us out. What is certain to not work is burying your head in the sand.

And to remain germane to the topic, neither will a gilded dinosaur attacking a teenager on twitter who probably has a far greater grasp of the scientific and existential threat.
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post #44 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 04:25 PM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

Re the thread title, my thoughts initially were it sure is going to depend on each individual, and opinions will wildly vary.

I haven't been disappointed, as I try and read through.

🙄🙄
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post #45 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 05:11 PM
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Re: Is the GOP becoming vindictive?

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Re the thread title, my thoughts initially were it sure is going to depend on each individual, and opinions will wildly vary.

I haven't been disappointed, as I try and read through.

🙄🙄
Part of the problem is when I read "Is the GOP...", I automatically think of Trump. He is, after all, the de facto leader of the party now that he holds its highest rank.

Given that immediate bias, then the answer has to be a knee-jerk yes because, at least for him, it's an irrefutable fact. It's probably also true of the lickspittle sycophants like Graham who've done a complete heel-turn in their personal style to match him in kind.

What I cannot say is what is happening to the average "Joe on the street" Republican, most of whom are decent folk who don't actually wish harm on another human being - but many of whom self-admit widely to not liking the way the top of the ticket behaves, even as they are willing to look the other way whilst he is doing it.

For them, I don't use the word vindictive. "Sell out" is closer to the truth.
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