Time to get this war going! - Page 12 - Talk About Marriage
Politics This is the place to discuss politics

User Tag List

 265Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #166 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-14-2020, 05:16 PM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 17,981
Re: Time to get this war going!

Quote:
Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
What's funny is the spin.

Conservative-leaning news outlets are propping the mere thought of a protest up as a victory.

Conversely, an article from CNN was attempting to downplay it as fairly insignificant.

I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between.

ETA: That the Iranian regime has had to bite the bullet and actually be truthful about the event has to be some sort of victory.
No disrespect to my Yankee cousins, but I don't think that had anything to do with America. That was it's citizens being fed up with a bunch of their own people being shot out of the sky, and a multinational coalition led by Canada forcing them to take accountability.

Diplomatically, not with drone strikes.

Say what you want about our good looking non-shirt wearing PM with nice hair... damn, he nailed this one. Quite proud of our stance here, and very proud at the nations that have banded together in this response, like the UK and Ukraine. With USA markedly absent.

Diplomacy may not be as sexy as pushing a button and watching people blow up, but it also tends to kill a lot less innocent people too.

Marduk is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #167 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-14-2020, 07:22 PM
Moderator
 
farsidejunky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 11,652
Re: Time to get this war going!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
No disrespect to my Yankee cousins, but I don't think that had anything to do with America. That was it's citizens being fed up with a bunch of their own people being shot out of the sky, and a multinational coalition led by Canada forcing them to take accountability.



Diplomatically, not with drone strikes.



Say what you want about our good looking non-shirt wearing PM with nice hair... damn, he nailed this one. Quite proud of our stance here, and very proud at the nations that have banded together in this response, like the UK and Ukraine. With USA markedly absent.



Diplomacy may not be as sexy as pushing a button and watching people blow up, but it also tends to kill a lot less innocent people too.
I think it has more to do with unintended consequences than a drone strike.

The fuel was present. All it needed was a source of ignition.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
farsidejunky is offline  
post #168 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-14-2020, 11:33 PM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 17,981
Re: Time to get this war going!

Quote:
Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
I think it has more to do with unintended consequences than a drone strike.

The fuel was present. All it needed was a source of ignition.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
And the match was willingly thrown, without telling your allies, or even your own congress.

As I said before, America is running out of allies.
Marduk is online now  
 
post #169 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 07:04 AM
Member
 
As'laDain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,840
Re: Time to get this war going!

this thread is like watching pigeons play chess...

"I am the wiser in respect to all knowledges, and the better qualified for all fortunes, for knowing that there is a minnow in the brook." -Henry David Thoreau
As'laDain is offline  
post #170 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 11:41 AM
Member
 
Cletus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 6,225
Re: Time to get this war going!

Quote:
Originally Posted by As'laDain View Post
this thread is like watching pigeons play chess...
Don't know 'bout you, but I would certainly find that fascinating.
Cletus is online now  
post #171 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 12:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,437
Re: Time to get this war going!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
And the match was willingly thrown, without telling your allies, or even your own congress.

As I said before, America is running out of allies.
If Congress had been notified, the first thing that would have happened would be that Schiff would be holding a press conference to detail the plan or he would have leaked it to the press.
karole is offline  
post #172 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 12:44 PM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 17,981
Re: Time to get this war going!

Quote:
Originally Posted by karole View Post
If Congress had been notified, the first thing that would have happened would be that Schiff would be holding a press conference to detail the plan or he would have leaked it to the press.
1. You make this assertion based on what evidence?

2. You do know your constitution mandates approval from congress, right? Do you not care that your POTUS just violated his oath to protect your constitution?

Trump in 2016:

Trump: I see the constitution as set in stone. I see it as one of the great documents of all time.


Trump in 2019:

Trump: "... this phony emoluments clause..." (in the constitution)

Again, Trump in 2019, on being impeached (as per the constitution):

Trump: "... so-called 'articles of impeachment'... people are saying 'they're not even a crime'... this is 'impeachment lite'..."

Trump clearly does not care about your constitution. Do any of the Trump supporters here care about it? If so, why do you support a guy that doesn't?
Marduk is online now  
post #173 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 10:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by karole View Post
If Congress had been notified, the first thing that would have happened would be that Schiff would be holding a press conference to detail the plan or he would have leaked it to the press.
1. You make this assertion based on what evidence?

2. You do know your constitution mandates approval from congress, right? Do you not care that your POTUS just violated his oath to protect your constitution?

Trump in 2016:


Trump: I see the constitution as set in stone. I see it as one of the great documents of all time.

Trump: "... this phony emoluments clause..." (in the constitution)

Again, Trump in 2019, on being impeached

Trump: "... so-called 'articles of impeachment'... people are saying 'they're not even a crime'... this is 'impeachment lite'..."

Trump clearly does not care about your constitution. Do any of the Trump supporters here care about it? If so, why do you support a guy that doesn't?
Trump has to get approval for war, not taking out a lowlife. Even that isn't the extent of his power. There are differences in what a war is exactly. Obama in Libya and Clinton in Bosnia were never approved by Congress, because the War Powers Act gives the President a sort of grace period to have military intervention without an all in all out war declaration.

Now, both Obama and Clinton technically passed over this grace period by a month or two but nothing happened even while Republicans were in power. The only reps that seemed to pay attention were Paul and Kucinich.
UpsideDownWorld11 is online now  
post #174 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 10:15 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,437
Re: Time to get this war going!

Warren even said in the debate the other night that she would strike back against an imminent threat without Congressional approval. It is just more of the same, "It's okay if we do it, but if Trump does it (no matter what it is), it's wrong.
karole is offline  
post #175 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 10:26 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by karole View Post
Warren even said in the debate the other night that she would strike back against an imminent threat without Congressional approval. It is just more of the same, "It's okay if we do it, but if Trump does it (no matter what it is), it's wrong.
It doesn't even matter if he was an imminent threat. Everyone agrees he was responsible for many American and Allied deaths. Guess what...so was Osama Bin Laden. And guess what we killed him in a remote shack while he was probably stroking it to teen porn. He was hiding for his life and was not an imminent threat. But we took him out thanks to Obama and Biden, because he was responsible for lots of American deaths on 911. The hypocrisy is thick here.

UpsideDownWorld11 is online now  
post #176 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 02:18 PM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 17,981
Re: Time to get this war going!

Quote:
Originally Posted by UpsideDownWorld11 View Post
Trump has to get approval for war, not taking out a lowlife. Even that isn't the extent of his power. There are differences in what a war is exactly. Obama in Libya and Clinton in Bosnia were never approved by Congress, because the War Powers Act gives the President a sort of grace period to have military intervention without an all in all out war declaration.

Now, both Obama and Clinton technically passed over this grace period by a month or two but nothing happened even while Republicans were in power. The only reps that seemed to pay attention were Paul and Kucinich.
[The Congress shall have Power ...] To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water ...

It's fairly clear that Congress should have been involved in an assassination of a foreign political leader, especially as it could (and still can) lead to war.

We are seeing this come true:

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."

He stood in some situation room somewhere, killed someone by remote control, and it doesn't look like he's lost his base at all.

There's lots of bad guys in the world. There has been zero justification for an immanent threat.

How long before the bad guys become Biden, or your own citizens? Or even easier, before he unilaterally starts a war with someone just because he wants a distraction from impeachment?

Which was clearly what this was all about to me. This is little different in a sense than bribing Ukraine to get dirt on Biden - it's again using a foreign nation to influence an election/process to stay in power. Only this time with bodies.
Marduk is online now  
post #177 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 02:20 PM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 17,981
Re: Time to get this war going!

Quote:
Originally Posted by karole View Post
Warren even said in the debate the other night that she would strike back against an imminent threat without Congressional approval. It is just more of the same, "It's okay if we do it, but if Trump does it (no matter what it is), it's wrong.
Except there was no immanent threat that could be articulated to anyone - even congress or the senate, even in a secure room in a bunker.

As one republican leader put it, the explanation was 'sophomoric'.

No threat that is, except to Trump's hold on power.
Marduk is online now  
post #178 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 02:45 PM
Member
 
As'laDain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,840
Re: Time to get this war going!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
[The Congress shall have Power ...] To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water ...

It's fairly clear that Congress should have been involved in an assassination of a foreign political leader, especially as it could (and still can) lead to war.

We are seeing this come true:

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."

He stood in some situation room somewhere, killed someone by remote control, and it doesn't look like he's lost his base at all.

There's lots of bad guys in the world. There has been zero justification for an immanent threat.

How long before the bad guys become Biden, or your own citizens? Or even easier, before he unilaterally starts a war with someone just because he wants a distraction from impeachment?

Which was clearly what this was all about to me. This is little different in a sense than bribing Ukraine to get dirt on Biden - it's again using a foreign nation to influence an election/process to stay in power. Only this time with bodies.
from where i sit, you really sound like a man born blind, arguing about the color green.

"I am the wiser in respect to all knowledges, and the better qualified for all fortunes, for knowing that there is a minnow in the brook." -Henry David Thoreau
As'laDain is offline  
post #179 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 02:48 PM
Member
 
Marduk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 17,981
Re: Time to get this war going!

Quote:
Originally Posted by As'laDain View Post
from where i sit, you really sound like a man born blind, arguing about the color green.
Fair enough.

What's your take?
Marduk is online now  
post #180 of 195 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 02:50 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpsideDownWorld11 View Post
Trump has to get approval for war, not taking out a lowlife. Even that isn't the extent of his power. There are differences in what a war is exactly. Obama in Libya and Clinton in Bosnia were never approved by Congress, because the War Powers Act gives the President a sort of grace period to have military intervention without an all in all out war declaration.

Now, both Obama and Clinton technically passed over this grace period by a month or two but nothing happened even while Republicans were in power. The only reps that seemed to pay attention were Paul and Kucinich.
[The Congress shall have Power ...] To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water ...

It's fairly clear that Congress should have been involved in an assassination of a foreign political leader, especially as it could (and still can) lead to war.

We are seeing this come true:

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."

He stood in some situation room somewhere, killed someone by remote control, and it doesn't look like he's lost his base at all.

There's lots of bad guys in the world. There has been zero justification for an immanent threat.

How long before the bad guys become Biden, or your own citizens? Or even easier, before he unilaterally starts a war with someone just because he wants a distraction from impeachment?

Which was clearly what this was all about to me. This is little different in a sense than bribing Ukraine to get dirt on Biden - it's again using a foreign nation to influence an election/process to stay in power. Only this time with bodies.
I assume you were just as outraged when Obama/Biden had the US Military go in an take out Osama Bin Laden even though he was no longer a threat? Or the military engagement in Libya that Obama ordered for several months without Congressional Approval?
UpsideDownWorld11 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome