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post #16 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 06:48 PM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

Ok, here's at least part of my perception. "Dual citizenship" seem to fly in the face of the oath,

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

Duel citizenship per se, doesn't bother me. My interpretation of Red Oaks concern are dual citizen elected official pushing to integrate laws of the country they have equal fidelity to with U.S. law. If I had my druthers, a person with duel citizenship has incomplete allegiance with either country and would not be allow to hold public office. Kinda like a guy with two wives. He's only half committed to either. Even if the chicks are ok with it, he better not be telling one they need learn the techniques possessed by the other. Other than that, I'd have no problem partnering up with a "dual citizen" to fish in a bass tournament.

But let's face it. The politicians who hold dual citizenship and doing it to jerk off the public. They are about as sincere as a street hooker who tells their client they're a great lay.


"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
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Last edited by VladDracul; 01-13-2020 at 06:57 PM.
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post #17 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 07:06 PM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

There was a rumor that 89 members of congress had dual American and Israeli citizenship. This is just not true. As of current, I dont know of any member that does have dual citizenship.


Countries which permit dual citizenship (directly from State department website)

The following countries permit dual citizenship, subject to national laws and rules and restrictions on eligibility. Note that status is subject to change and you are advised to take advice on your circumstances for the most up to date position:

Australia
Barbados
Belgium
Bangladesh
Canada
Czech Republic
Cyprus
Denmark
United States
United Kingdom
Switzerland
South Korea
South Africa
Egypt
Greece
France
Finland
Germany
Iraq
Italy
Israel
Ireland
Poland
Hungary
Iceland
Kenya
Sweden
Slovenia
Syria
Serbia
Armenia
Thailand
Lebanon
Malta
Spain
Tonga
Philippines
Sierra Leone
Sri Lanka
Pakistan
Portugal
Turkey

Also when sworn into office, one swears to uphold and defend the US constitution. If not, that is the job of investigations and oversight committee to deal with.


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post #18 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 07:23 PM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

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Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Just askin'...
What wife?
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post #19 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 07:28 PM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

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Originally Posted by Tasorundo View Post
Yes and @Red Sonja is always right and never misreads anything.

@red oak is always the smartest person in the room and has researched everything more than everyone else. If you ever question him you will get a word salad of the highest order.



What was the question? Why are dual citizenship politicians anti-constitution? Why are they unamerican? Why are people with dual citizenship allowed to be here?

What is it we want to know? What is to be gained by lumping a group of unrelated people together, because of a similar circumstance that can have a million different reasons?
There you go again, I rest my case.
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post #20 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 07:30 PM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

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Originally Posted by red oak View Post
Not much of one for politics.

Seeing so many complaints lately, and not being into party politics, got curious how those in the house, and senate holding dual citizenship vote in comparison to laws of their home country.

I find it odd; of those Ive had time to purview so far; the staunchest anti-2nd amendment advocates, and pro-immigration advocates hold dual citizenship.

If one agrees with the laws of a home country why take the opposite tact in a country of which they are basically a guest??? Hmmmm.

Can you please post an actual example? I really have no idea what you mean.
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post #21 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 07:47 PM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

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Originally Posted by VladDracul View Post
Duel citizenship per se, doesn't bother me. My interpretation of Red Oaks concern are dual citizen elected official pushing to integrate laws of the country they have equal fidelity to with U.S. law.
Not sure I see what the problem is here. Are we presupposing that the US can learn nothing from the laws of any other country? They're not pushing for sovereignty of another country over the US, but instead a change to our laws.

Presumably they think that the law from their homeland is in some way superior - who then wouldn't work to make that change in the country they now inhabit?

Would you not advocate for improved free speech were you to emigrate to North Korea? Ok, bad example.
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post #22 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 07:50 PM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

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Originally Posted by VladDracul View Post
Ok, here's at least part of my perception. "Dual citizenship" seem to fly in the face of the oath,

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.
This makes sense to me. Your oath of citizenship clearly implies that you renounce all others; I wasnt aware of this.

Heres the Canadian oath, which is quite different:

I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, her heirs and successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

Which seems quite compatible with dual citizenship, as long as you obey Canadian laws, fulfil you duties as a Canadian, and bear allegiance to the queen.

Hence my position on dual citizenship.

Were I an American, I might hold a different view, or be campaigning for the oath to be changed, even though its quite legal for you to be a dual citizen:
Quote:
That language seems to firmly establish a principle of one person, one country. But even though it sounds unequivocal, it is not. In fact, it is entirely possible for naturalized U.S. citizens to retain citizenship in another country, or for a native-born American to claim citizenship in a second country. On the face of it, this is an odd arrangement that challenges the notion that citizenship is an expression of national loyalty. How can a person be equally loyal to two countries?

Yet dual citizenship has been specifically sanctioned by the United States Supreme Court. In 1967, the court ruled that the State Department had violated the Constitution when it refused to issue a new U.S. passport to a U.S. citizen who had voted in an election in Israel. The decision overturned a law saying that a person, who is a national of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voting in a political election in a foreign state.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/edit...228-story.html

But like you, Id have a problem taking that vow and feeling good about it if I were also a citizen elsewhere.
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post #23 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Sonja View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasorundo View Post
Yes and @Red Sonja is always right and never misreads anything.

@red oak is always the smartest person in the room and has researched everything more than everyone else. If you ever question him you will get a word salad of the highest order.



What was the question? Why are dual citizenship politicians anti-constitution? Why are they unamerican? Why are people with dual citizenship allowed to be here?

What is it we want to know? What is to be gained by lumping a group of unrelated people together, because of a similar circumstance that can have a million different reasons?
There you go again, I rest my case.
I said you are always right!
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post #24 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 08:01 PM
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The oath of citizenship is not something everyone has to do. Even people of dual citizenship most likely never took it.

It is something recited when naturalized citizens are officially declared.

I would think most dual citizens are so by birth.
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post #25 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 08:18 PM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

It all come down whether the citizenship you claim on paper is the same as the citizenship you claim in your heart.


"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.
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post #26 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by VladDracul View Post
It all come down whether the citizenship you claim on paper is the same as the citizenship you claim in your heart.
I guess we just have to trust people then eh? Unless you have a heart translator.
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post #27 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 08:31 PM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

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Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
Not sure I see what the problem is here. Are we presupposing that the US can learn nothing from the laws of any other country? They're not pushing for sovereignty of another country over the US, but instead a change to our laws.

Presumably they think that the law from their homeland is in some way superior - who then wouldn't work to make that change in the country they now inhabit?

Would you not advocate for improved free speech were you to emigrate to North Korea? Ok, bad example.
I did read that a couple of American soldiers defected to NK in the '50s. They regretted it but were never allowed out.
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post #28 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 11:11 PM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

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Who are we talking about, specifically?
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Originally Posted by GTdad View Post
I would have been happy to engage if I knew what congresspeople with dual-citizenship we were talking about.
Do you know what you call someone who tries to figure out what someone else is saying? "Elitist".

I don't know what "elitist" means, but it kind of doesn't sound good, so I when I encounter incoherence I just repeat a bunch of angry stuff I heard before.
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post #29 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 11:29 PM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

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Can you please post an actual example? I really have no idea what you mean.
Glad I'm not the only one.

Reminds me of this SNL sketch
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post #30 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-14-2020, 01:35 AM
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Re: Political Dual citizenship

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Originally Posted by Tasorundo View Post
Yes and @Red Sonja is always right and never misreads anything.

@red oak is always the smartest person in the room and has researched everything more than everyone else. If you ever question him you will get a word salad of the highest order.



What was the question? Why are dual citizenship politicians anti-constitution? Why are they unamerican? Why are people with dual citizenship allowed to be here?

What is it we want to know? What is to be gained by lumping a group of unrelated people together, because of a similar circumstance that can have a million different reasons?
Or maybe the question is, why are dual citizens for things that I am not for?

Things like more gun control, universal healthcare, immigration reform are championed by a lot of Americans, including myself. Until someone points out something specific, I am for those issues as well. But then since I am black, maybe some people support Trump in taking away the 14th Amendment.

Did anyone worry about what plans Schwarzenegger has as governor?

The person who is selling off the Unitd States to foreign entities, sovereign and not, are Trump and his cohorts.
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