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post #16 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 11:03 AM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
What high crime or misdemeanor do the charges in the impeachment suggest Trump committed?

The only actual alleged crime they attempted to prove was proven false by the release of the phone conversation. Nothing else is a crime or even a high misdemeanor.
You know what they are as well as I do, you're just seeking to dance around if it's a 'crime' or not.

But try this one on for size, that's even from the lying mouthpiece for the GOP:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gao...ke-law-ukraine

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post #17 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 03:38 PM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

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You know what they are as well as I do, you're just seeking to dance around if it's a 'crime' or not.

But try this one on for size, that's even from the lying mouthpiece for the GOP:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gao...ke-law-ukraine
No dancing required.

They didn't prove he committed any crimes. They believe he did. The House only presents findings of possible illegal behavior to the Senate, where hearings, similar to a trial are held. The Senate may agree or disagree with the findings of the House. Once the 'trial' is over, there may be legal consequences in a court of law, but those are not the same as the Senate hearing.

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post #18 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 03:42 PM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

High crimes are not actual crimes. Not sure how many times that needs to be said. Impeachment requires no criminal offense.
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post #19 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 03:53 PM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

The charges are that Trump attempted to bribe the leader of another country using funds approved by the HoRs.

That's what is being reviewed in the Senate.

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post #20 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 03:56 PM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

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High crimes are not actual crimes. Not sure how many times that needs to be said. Impeachment requires no criminal offense.
Treason isn't a crime? Well, you are from some other country. Maybe it isn't there.

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post #21 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 04:08 PM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
The charges are that Trump attempted to bribe the leader of another country using funds approved by the HoRs.

That's what is being reviewed in the Senate.
Not really - the concern is, I believe, that Trump withheld monies that were not in his power to withhold, having been legally appropriated by the correct arm of government - in order to pursue his own PERSONAL advantage. That, I suspect, means that the "charge" is not "bribery" but "corruption".

And, AIUI, he is also alleged to have committed obstruction of the impeachment process by withholding evidence and testimony.

As to whether anything will be reviewed - from where I stand the GOP is unable to decide whether to follow the incompetent in the WH, take whatever action (or inaction) the bewildered legislators think will best advance their own individual agenda or act as required morally and legally. My guess is that most are so paralyzed by their inability to see a simple way forward that they will, effectively, do nothing and hope the mud does not stick.

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post #22 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
The charges are that Trump attempted to bribe the leader of another country using funds approved by the HoRs.

That's what is being reviewed in the Senate.
Not really - the concern is, I believe, that Trump withheld monies that were not in his power to withhold, having been legally appropriated by the correct arm of government - in order to pursue his own PERSONAL advantage. That, I suspect, means that the "charge" is not "bribery" but "corruption".

And, AIUI, he is also alleged to have committed obstruction of the impeachment process by withholding evidence and testimony.

As to whether anything will be reviewed - from where I stand the GOP is unable to decide whether to follow the incompetent in the WH, take whatever action (or inaction) the bewildered legislators think will best advance their own individual agenda or act as required morally and legally. My guess is that most are so paralyzed by their inability to see a simple way forward that they will, effectively, do nothing and hope the mud does not stick.
The Impoundment act would be thrown out if brought before the SCOTUS. Every governor has this power and every President before Nixon had it. It was aimed directly at Nixon during his controversy and he didn't try to fight back. Every President and Legal expert pretty much has said it should be repealed on Constitutional grounds.
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post #23 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 05:01 PM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

High crimes and misdemeanors - offenses as varied as misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping "suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament," granting warrants without cause, and bribery. Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not.


The first impeachment conviction by the United States Senate was in 1804 of John Pickering, a judge of the United States District Court for the District of New Hampshire, for chronic intoxication.
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post #24 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 05:57 PM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

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Not really - the concern is, I believe, that Trump withheld monies that were not in his power to withhold, having been legally appropriated by the correct arm of government - in order to pursue his own PERSONAL advantage. That, I suspect, means that the "charge" is not "bribery" but "corruption".

And, AIUI, he is also alleged to have committed obstruction of the impeachment process by withholding evidence and testimony.

As to whether anything will be reviewed - from where I stand the GOP is unable to decide whether to follow the incompetent in the WH, take whatever action (or inaction) the bewildered legislators think will best advance their own individual agenda or act as required morally and legally. My guess is that most are so paralyzed by their inability to see a simple way forward that they will, effectively, do nothing and hope the mud does not stick.
We'll see what happens. They are in his power to withhold for a certain amount of time. No one admitted to checking into the corruption in Ukraine. Yes, it was supposed to change with the regime change. What proof did the HoRs have that it changed. There wars are not ours. Obama gave them blankets when they needed arms. I guess he was looking for a quid pro quo before he gave them what they needed. Many died because of Obama's inaction. They used the blankets to cover the dead. Then, he gave the Ukraine to Biden, and while it was corrupt as hell, Biden got his son a job there and the HoRs continued to give more tax dollars to the corrupt regime. That Ukraine was corrupt then, is not in question.

What you are questioning is whether Trump had the right to make sure they weren't going to lose another 4,000,000,000 dollars of taxpayer money without a clue where it went during Obama and Biden's tenures.

Do you suggest that those same folks who are still in the HoRs are trustworthy?

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Since taking office, President Trump has strengthened American leadership, security, prosperity, and accountability.

After 500 days, the results are clear: the American economy is stronger, American workers are experiencing more opportunities, confidence is soaring, and business is booming.

President Trump has re-asserted American leadership on the world stage, secured vital investments in our military, and stood up against threats to our national security.

President Trump has put the American people first and made government more accountable.

Nearly 3 million jobs have been created since President Trump took office.

304,000 manufacturing jobs have been created since President Trump took office, and manufacturing employment stands at its highest level since December 2008.

337,000 construction jobs have been created since President Trump took office, and construction employment stands at its highest level since June 2008.

Under President Trump, the unemployment rate has dropped to 3.8, the lowest rate since April 2000, and job openings have reached 6.6 million, the highest level recorded.

67 percent of Americans believe now is a good time to find a quality job, according to Gallup.

Only under President Trump have more than 50 percent of Americans believed it is a good time to find a quality job since Gallup began asking the question 17 years ago.

President Trump prioritized job training and workforce development to empower workers to seize more opportunities, signing an Executive Order to expand apprenticeship opportunities.

President Trump has restored confidence in the American economy, with confidence among both consumers and businesses reaching historic highs.

Consumer confidence in current conditions has reached a 17-year high, according to the Conference Board.

Optimism among manufacturers has hit record highs under President Trump, according to the National Association of Manufacturers.

Small business optimism has sustained record-high levels under President Trump according to the National Federation of Independent Business.

President Trump signed the historic Tax Cuts and Jobs Act into law, cutting taxes for American families and making American business more competitive.

American families received $3.2 trillion in gross tax cuts and saw the child tax credit double.

The top corporate tax rate was lowered from 35 percent to 21 percent so American businesses could be more competitive.

President Trump has rolled back unnecessary job-killing regulations beyond expectations.

In 2017, President Trump far exceeded his promise to eliminate regulations at a two-to-one ratio, issuing 22 deregulatory actions for every new regulatory action.

The Administration rolled back rules and regulations harming farmers and energy producers, such as the Waters of the United States Rule and the Clean Power Plan.

Regional and community banks and credit unions got relief after President Trump signed legislation reducing harmful requirements imposed by the Dodd-Frank Act.

Since taking office, President Trump has advanced free, fair, and reciprocal trade deals that protect American workers, ending decades of destructive trade policies.

Days after taking office, the President withdrew the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations and agreement.

President Trumpís Administration is working to defend American intellectual property from Chinaís unfair practices through a range of actions.

The President improved the KORUS trade agreement with the Republic of Korea, which will allow more U.S. automobile exports to South Korea with lower tariffs and increase U.S. pharmaceutical access to South Korea.

American agriculture has gained access to new markets under President Trump.

President Trump followed through on his promise to move the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.

President Trump ordered an end to United States participation in the horrible Iran deal and immediately began the process of re-imposing sanctions that had been lifted or waived.

The President has taken action to confront aggression by Iran and its proxies.

The Department of the Treasury has issued a range of sanctions targeting Iranian activities and entities, including the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps-Qods Force.

Under President Trump, the United States has led an unprecedented global campaign to achieve the peaceful denuclearization of the Korean peninsula.

President Trumpís leadership has contributed to the return of 17 Americans held overseas.

In May 2018 alone, Venezuela released one American and North Korea released three Americans who came home to the United States.

The President has secured historic increases in defense funding in order to rebuild our Nationís military with the resources they need, after years of harmful sequester.

President Trump signed legislation to provide $700 billion in defense spending for fiscal year (FY) 2018 and $716 billion for FY 2019.

The United States has worked with international allies to decimate ISIS.

President Trump ordered strikes against Syria in response to the regimeís use of chemical weapons in April 2017 and April 2018.

The Trump Administration has imposed a range of sanctions on the Maduro dictatorship in Venezuela, including sanctions targeting Maduro and other senior government officials.

Despite limited resources and obstruction from Congress, President Trump has worked to take control of our border and enforce our immigration laws.

President Trump has called on Congress to provide the resources needed to secure our borders and close loopholes that prevent immigration laws from being fully enforced.

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President Trumpís Administration has carried out immigration enforcement efforts based on the rule of law.

From the start of President Trumpís Administration to the end of FY 2017, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) made 110,568 arrests of illegal aliens.

Arrests made in this timeframe represented a 42 percent increase from the same timeframe in FY 2016.

Of the 110,568 arrests made, 92 percent had a criminal conviction, pending criminal charge, were an ICE fugitive, or had a reinstated final order of removal.

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As of April 2018, U.S. Border Patrol has seized 284 pounds of fentanyl in FY 2018, already surpassing the total of 181 pounds seized in FY 2017.

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The Presidentís Opioid Initiative seeks to reduce drug demand, cut off the flow of illicit drugs, and save lives by expanding treatment opportunities.

President Trump signed an omnibus spending bill which provides nearly $4 billion to address the opioid epidemic.

The bill included $1 billion for grants focused on the hardest hit States and Tribes and provided funding for a public-private research partnership on pain and addiction.

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President Trump signed the VA Choice and Quality Employment Act into law, authorizing $2.1 billion in additional funds for the Veterans Choice Program.

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The Presidentís Administration is seeking to provide more affordable health coverage and broader access to affordable alternatives to Obamacare plans.

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The Department of Justice issued guidance to all executive agencies on protecting religious liberty in federal programs
https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/t...-media-ignores

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post #25 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 07:59 PM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

You can put a sign saying Rolls-Royce on a Wartburg - but it's still a Wartburg.

You copy and paste a Gish Gallop - Just because I'll only point out a few alternative interpretations in no way validates the rest of the list..

The Administration rolled back rules and regulations harming farmers and energy producers, such as the Waters of the United States Rule and the Clean Power Plan. Because he doesn't care about the health of those who are no longer protected.

Since taking office, President Trump has advanced free, fair, and reciprocal trade deals that protect American workers, ending decades of destructive trade policies. Because he doesn't/can't/won't understand that tariffs are paid for in the country of consumption he has caused massive price increases and job layoffs for working people.

American agriculture has gained access to new markets under President Trump. But nothing to compensate for the harm he did when he caused China to stop buying American produce - try telling soya growers how wonderful he is.

Despite limited resources and obstruction from Congress, President Trump has worked to take control of our border and enforce our immigration laws. By separating children from their parents and their siblings and keeping people in conditions that would get him prison in an enlightened country were he to treat a dog so?

The Presidentís Administration is seeking to provide more affordable health coverage and broader access to affordable alternatives to Obamacare plans.
The President says he seeking..........but in reality he has no idea how to do so and, in the occasional moments when he is capable of coherent thought, is driven by his obsessive need to reverse his predecessor's achievements.

President Trump has ensured that the religious liberties and conscience of Americans are protected and respected by the Federal government.

President Trump signed an Executive Order to protect the free speech and religious liberties of groups such as the Little Sisters of the Poor.

The Department of Justice issued guidance to all executive agencies on protecting religious liberty in federal programs


He has pandered to a bunch of powerful but morally-deficient pseudo-religious leaders and their often racist, generally poorly educated, frightened that they might lose their traditional and undeserved privileges flocks. And you know what happens to sheep don't you - they get herded, fleeced, and fed to wealthy men and their dogs.

Rip the sticking plaster of spin off your list and you have a festering open wound - a sad litany of ignorance, irrelevance and incompetence.

Have a nice day


I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. Richard P. Feynman
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post #26 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 08:03 PM
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Cool Re: Lev Parnas........

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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
Treason isn't a crime? Well, you are from some other country. Maybe it isn't there.
Of course, both treason and bribery, both actual or attempted, are criminal felony violations of the U. S. Federal Code.

A Federal misdemeanor is simply not holding oneself to the truthful standard that their oath of office solemnly binds them to.

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post #27 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 10:40 PM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

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Originally Posted by cp3o View Post
You can put a sign saying Rolls-Royce on a Wartburg - but it's still a Wartburg.

You copy and paste a Gish Gallop - Just because I'll only point out a few alternative interpretations in no way validates the rest of the list..

The Administration rolled back rules and regulations harming farmers and energy producers, such as the Waters of the United States Rule and the Clean Power Plan. Because he doesn't care about the health of those who are no longer protected.

Since taking office, President Trump has advanced free, fair, and reciprocal trade deals that protect American workers, ending decades of destructive trade policies. Because he doesn't/can't/won't understand that tariffs are paid for in the country of consumption he has caused massive price increases and job layoffs for working people.

American agriculture has gained access to new markets under President Trump. But nothing to compensate for the harm he did when he caused China to stop buying American produce - try telling soya growers how wonderful he is.

Despite limited resources and obstruction from Congress, President Trump has worked to take control of our border and enforce our immigration laws. By separating children from their parents and their siblings and keeping people in conditions that would get him prison in an enlightened country were he to treat a dog so?

The Presidentís Administration is seeking to provide more affordable health coverage and broader access to affordable alternatives to Obamacare plans.
The President says he seeking..........but in reality he has no idea how to do so and, in the occasional moments when he is capable of coherent thought, is driven by his obsessive need to reverse his predecessor's achievements.

President Trump has ensured that the religious liberties and conscience of Americans are protected and respected by the Federal government.

President Trump signed an Executive Order to protect the free speech and religious liberties of groups such as the Little Sisters of the Poor.

The Department of Justice issued guidance to all executive agencies on protecting religious liberty in federal programs


He has pandered to a bunch of powerful but morally-deficient pseudo-religious leaders and their often racist, generally poorly educated, frightened that they might lose their traditional and undeserved privileges flocks. And you know what happens to sheep don't you - they get herded, fleeced, and fed to wealthy men and their dogs.

Rip the sticking plaster of spin off your list and you have a festering open wound - a sad litany of ignorance, irrelevance and incompetence.

Have a nice day
Couldn't address the rest? Nice poetic pile of steaming dung. Thanks for trying, though.

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post #28 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 10:44 PM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

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Originally Posted by arbitrator View Post
Of course, both treason and bribery, both actual or attempted, are criminal felony violations of the U. S. Federal Code.

A Federal misdemeanor is simply not holding oneself to the truthful standard that their oath of office solemnly binds them to.
That made me laugh. Can you name one elected to the HoR, the Senate or the Presidency that has never broken that rule? You'd have to throw them all out. Do you expect the president to reveal secret plans? No? The house does. They tell the press. Why do you think he didn't say anything to the house about funding for Ukraine? lol That rule is a joke. It can't be upheld.

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post #29 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Lev Parnas........

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Couldn't address the rest? Nice poetic pile of steaming dung. Thanks for trying, though.
some people do have day jobs. People have full time jobs as researchers to be able to respond to all the points in that article in 2 hours.
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post #30 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2020, 10:49 PM
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Re: Lev Parnas........

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some people do have day jobs. People have full time jobs as researchers to be able to respond to all the points in that article in 2 hours.
What does this mean?

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