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post #151 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 10:08 AM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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I did go to college. I know the politics, and how colleges are catering to special interest groups, and you gave an example of it when you stated they are concerned about lawsuits.
You forgot, universities are really edubiz “corporations” and not about to isolate any demographic group. They, universities, are more interested in chasing dollars than principles. These things I know.


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You’re referring to the AWG discussion. I never said I was a scientist. However I am good at reading, analyzing, and recognizing cause and effect.

On this subject, I’m not so sure you are, but that is not the subject here. I have read what you have posted, and if want a basic lesson in science or advanced lessons in physics and chemistry, that is for a different setting.



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post #152 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 12:41 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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Climate models are complicated. Non subject matter experts are not going to be able to evaluate them. Its unfortunate, but not really all that unusual. Non experts aren't in a good position to evaluate medical procedures, know how to operate an airliner, write networking software, or make high quality carpentry joints.

In all those cases an expert can teach a non-expert a lot about what is going on - IF they are trusted. If the non-expert doesn't trust the expert, then its almost impossible for them to learn. If they say that they don't believe that pointing the nose of the plane higher sometimes makes the plane descend, the expert now needs a long discussion on aerodynamics, and lift vs drag curves. If those are questioned, it just spirals out of control because the non-expert wants an entire careers worth of knowledge, but no one has time to spend a decade transferring that information.
Good point with a caveat.

Often the knowledge creates an arrogance, inhibiting the expert from learning from the “commoner.”

As the best Teachers of all time have alluded such lack of humility influences the student wrongly which leads to indoctrination, whether intentional or not.
I’ve already shared a statement from an Expert in the field who wrote a guide yet non-experts in his field say he doesn’t know what he is talking about, or it’s not happening. Yet they want people to defer to their opinions.

Hypocrisy much?

Long ago I remember watching a ”non-experts” reaction; who provided a solution all the top engineers and scientists of the nation couldn’t figure out; when they refused to recognize his contribution.
Can’t have people knowing a ”commoner” with common wisdom having little indoctrination can sometimes see the overall concept and path more clearly.


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post #153 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 12:53 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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Good point with a caveat.



Often the knowledge creates an arrogance, inhibiting the expert from learning from the “commoner.”

No, it’s more like a game of catch up. I get it though, everyone thinks google makes us all experts on all things. Some things really do take a lot more of an expertise of a background. I would never read a few books on the law and defend myself in court.



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post #154 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 01:00 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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No, it’s more like a game of catch up. I get it though, everyone thinks google makes us all experts on all things. Some things really do take a lot more of an expertise of a background. I would never read a few books on the law and defend myself in court.



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When I get time later I’ll share one of the first socially indoctrinated ideas I came out of around 30 years ago.

Which is actually a mass delusion.


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post #155 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 01:11 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

The only institution I have been a part of that gets close to indoctrination is the military.

The old saying “there is a right way, wrong way and the navy way”.


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post #156 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 01:18 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

A compounding problem is the question of how to define an "expert". Is an economics professor at a major university more or less of an expert on economics than a successful businessman?



Quote:
Originally Posted by red oak View Post
Good point with a caveat.

Often the knowledge creates an arrogance, inhibiting the expert from learning from the “commoner.”

As the best Teachers of all time have alluded such lack of humility influences the student wrongly which leads to indoctrination, whether intentional or not.
I’ve already shared a statement from an Expert in the field who wrote a guide yet non-experts in his field say he doesn’t know what he is talking about, or it’s not happening. Yet they want people to defer to their opinions.

Hypocrisy much?

Long ago I remember watching a ”non-experts” reaction; who provided a solution all the top engineers and scientists of the nation couldn’t figure out; when they refused to recognize his contribution.
Can’t have people knowing a ”commoner” with common wisdom having little indoctrination can sometimes see the overall concept and path more clearly.
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post #157 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 02:22 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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Originally Posted by hilariouslaughter View Post
This is literally the best laugh I've had all week. Defending a terrorist....
Here’s the awkward thing I think you’re missing because ‘Iranian guy bad.’

Flip the logic, and Trump checks all the same boxes that this guy did. If you’re in the Iranian regime, your perspective might be:

(a) a foreign leader of an enemy regime
(b) actively planning and carrying out attacks on Iranian citizens, especially it’s leadership
(c) with the intention of causing terror
(d) has been declared a terrorist

From their perspective, he literally may fit the same conditions that were used by America to justify killing this guy.

The hard part about attempting to keep the moral high ground is that your own rules can be used against you.

Not defending this guy. I’m questioning the logic in the way this was carried out, the lack of understanding of the unintended consequences, and that ‘rules for thee and not for me’ is getting real old.

You guys are walking a tightrope here and I just don’t think you see it. Every rule you’re breaking because it works for you to do, is going to also get broken in ways that harm you. That’s what the whole ‘rule of law’ thing is supposed to be about.
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post #158 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 02:52 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Here’s the awkward thing I think you’re missing because ‘Iranian guy bad.’

Flip the logic, and Trump checks all the same boxes that this guy did. If you’re in the Iranian regime, your perspective might be:

(a) a foreign leader of an enemy regime
(b) actively planning and carrying out attacks on Iranian citizens, especially it’s leadership
(c) with the intention of causing terror
(d) has been declared a terrorist

From their perspective, he literally may fit the same conditions that were used by America to justify killing this guy.

The hard part about attempting to keep the moral high ground is that your own rules can be used against you.

Not defending this guy. I’m questioning the logic in the way this was carried out, the lack of understanding of the unintended consequences, and that ‘rules for thee and not for me’ is getting real old.

You guys are walking a tightrope here and I just don’t think you see it. Every rule you’re breaking because it works for you to do, is going to also get broken in ways that harm you. That’s what the whole ‘rule of law’ thing is supposed to be about.
So what second and third order of effects do you predict as a result of killing Soleimani?

"I am the wiser in respect to all knowledges, and the better qualified for all fortunes, for knowing that there is a minnow in the brook." -Henry David Thoreau
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post #159 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 06:34 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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So what second and third order of effects do you predict as a result of killing Soleimani?
I don't know about second and third order of effects but he won't be sending his folks to kill anybody else. I wonder how many more folks would have been alive in 1950 if they'd offed old Adolf in 1939 or if the twin towers would still be standing if one the snipers/ drone operators with Ben in the cross hairs would have been given the ok. If he/she a clear and present danger to US citizens, eliminate their azzez. If it makes you feel good, explain it later to the naysayers who can't do a damn thing about it anyway.

"The facts have never mattered less than they do today. We're living in a time where the truth has been so diminished in value, even those at the top of government (and the media) are quite comfortable with the truth being whatever they can convince people to believe",
Raymond Reddington.

Last edited by VladDracul; 01-19-2020 at 06:46 PM.
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post #160 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 07:40 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

@uhtred
@Ikaika
For the love of simplicity lets keep legal mumbo out please, I've already heard it all.
Yes I pay. No I don't do the sovereign movement. Never even heard of it back then.
Nothing more than an example of indoctrination and lack of us carrying things to their logical conclusions.

Tenant Definition: A person to whom a landlord grants temporary and exclusive use of land or a part of a building, usually in exchange for rent.
The word tenant originated under the feudal system, referring to land "owners" who held their land on tenure granted by a lord.

Most of us don't see we are being indoctrinated from birth.
I realized we can never own land in sense most think.
It is nothing more than an indoctrinated idea/opinion contrary to logical truth. Owned in principle only.

When I got land around 30 years ago I was excited. No more rent. I finally "own" land.

Never gave a second thought to the tenants in common. because I was a land owner.

Then the property tax bill came. The amount was a lot of money for the time. Way more than I expected. An amount I didn't have, and had to take a loan to pay. Then it came around again!

I asked what would happen if I hadn't paid. Was told the land would be forfeit, I would have to move, and land would be sold. Or if someone else realized I was delinquent they could pay it and put a lien of the property, and I would have to go to civil court to come to settlement arrangements and after a couple years it would be theirs, if they published a public notice, even though I didn't read the paper, and I failed to respond they could have me evicted. Off Of Land I Am Supposed to Own??

Call me simple, but that isn't the concept of ownership given by education growing up, and no different than leasing a place, and failing to pay the lease.
"Owning" land was just a little cheaper than renting with the same end result if one didn't pay taxes, as if one didn't pay the lease payment.

Living in my state I had seen the historical documents on business walls, of alloidial title, and land patent to native americans which were free of all encumbrances and taxes. There are still a few very small areas left. But once it's removed it's never granted back.

Critical thinking, honest thought processes; showed the indoctrination leading to the delusion.

If someone has to maintain a job/income to pay every year to hold on to "property" they do not, nor will they ever own it. The property is never truly theirs free and clear.

When I shared with a few friends. Their reaction was the first time recognized the reaction of cognitive dissonance.

I was never under such delusion regarding a mortgage, or auto loan. Kind of get tickled when people say they own a home yet still have 20 years of mortgage to go.

Why not just be honest like nigeria is. people can't own land as private property. Instead you apply for a lease to use the land and you get a certificate of occupancy, which can (at least in theory) be revoked and the land reappropriated by the state if you break the regulations set out in the Land Use Act.
With imminent domain, epa regulations, zoning etc it's really no different in the u.s than in nigeria.

I know people in colorado who have been kicked off their land for living in an RV. while building a home, because it's against regulations.



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Last edited by red oak; 01-19-2020 at 07:49 PM.
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post #161 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 08:01 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

Here is a paper on propaganda and indoctrination.
Only by knowing tactics may defend themselves.

Intellectuals are the most vulnerable of all to modern propaganda for the following reasons.
1. They absorb the largest amount of secondhand, unverifiable information.
2. They feel a compelling need to have an option on every important question of our time, and thus
easily succumb to opinions offered to them by propaganda.
And 3. The consider themselves capable of “judging for themselves”.

if the link doesn't work please let me know.

http://www.inlimbo.ie/summaries/long/formation.pdf


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The only difference between 'propaganda' and 'education,' really, is in the point of view. The advocacy of what we believe in is education. The advocacy of what we don't believe in is propaganda.-Edward Bernays
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post #162 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by red oak View Post
Here is a paper on propaganda and indoctrination.
Only by knowing tactics may defend themselves.

Intellectuals are the most vulnerable of all to modern propaganda for the following reasons.
1. They absorb the largest amount of secondhand, unverifiable information.
2. They feel a compelling need to have an option on every important question of our time, and thus
easily succumb to opinions offered to them by propaganda.
And 3. The consider themselves capable of “judging for themselves”.

if the link doesn't work please let me know.

http://www.inlimbo.ie/summaries/long/formation.pdf
Again, take off the tinfoil hat.
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post #163 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 08:36 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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So what second and third order of effects do you predict as a result of killing Soleimani?
I don’t know.

Hence “unintended consequences.”

What I do know is that it now became normal to assassinate foreign leaders.

Of which we all have many of. That’s part of the problem here.
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post #164 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilariouslaughter View Post
This is literally the best laugh I've had all week. Defending a terrorist....
Here’s the awkward thing I think you’re missing because ‘Iranian guy bad.’

Flip the logic, and Trump checks all the same boxes that this guy did. If you’re in the Iranian regime, your perspective might be:

(a) a foreign leader of an enemy regime
(b) actively planning and carrying out attacks on Iranian citizens, especially it’s leadership
(c) with the intention of causing terror
(d) has been declared a terrorist

From their perspective, he literally may fit the same conditions that were used by America to justify killing this guy.

The hard part about attempting to keep the moral high ground is that your own rules can be used against you.

Not defending this guy. I’m questioning the logic in the way this was carried out, the lack of understanding of the unintended consequences, and that ‘rules for thee and not for me’ is getting real old.

You guys are walking a tightrope here and I just don’t think you see it. Every rule you’re breaking because it works for you to do, is going to also get broken in ways that harm you. That’s what the whole ‘rule of law’ thing is supposed to be about.
Okay I led...THIS is the best laugh.

I don't like Trump, but give me a freaking break.
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post #165 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 08:40 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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Originally Posted by hilariouslaughter View Post
Okay I led...THIS is the best laugh.

I don't like Trump, but give me a freaking break.
Was that a criticism?

Or do you just argue with memes?
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