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post #181 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 02:38 AM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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A compounding problem is the question of how to define an "expert". Is an economics professor at a major university more or less of an expert on economics than a successful businessman?
Philosophical question.
Good one.
Little outside this thread topic though.



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post #182 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 03:05 AM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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I donít know.

Hence ďunintended consequences.Ē

What I do know is that it now became normal to assassinate foreign leaders.

Of which we all have many of. Thatís part of the problem here.
So you can't even think of any possible consequences that you are worried about, besides it being normal to assassinate foreign leaders? Well, when they make a career of killing US soldiers and its allies, foreign leaders are just going to have to accept that as an occupational hazard.

"I am the wiser in respect to all knowledges, and the better qualified for all fortunes, for knowing that there is a minnow in the brook." -Henry David Thoreau
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post #183 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 05:51 AM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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Not sure you are referring to mass social indoctrination, or higher ed specifically.
Red Oak, can I ask you, with reference to American Universities: is your suggestion that there is a conscious effort to indoctrinate (in a set of views that we might loosely call "left" or "liberal" or something), or is it just that those Universities tend to have that culture, and so students tend to absorb it from their peers and professors and emerge more "L" than when they went in?
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post #184 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 10:44 AM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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So you can't even think of any possible consequences that you are worried about, besides it being normal to assassinate foreign leaders? Well, when they make a career of killing US soldiers and its allies, foreign leaders are just going to have to accept that as an occupational hazard.
I posted an interesting analysis from the region.

However, what I would say is that once again the region has been destabilized. And once again many people with the ability to invest or profit from oil are making loads of money.

Are you accepting of the same risk for your own political leadership? Just an occupational hazard?

Look, I’m not arguing he was a good guy. I’m not arguing that the attack wasn’t even warranted - because nothing really has been presented there as justification. I’m just going on your judgement here.

What I am attempting to point out is that it seems to have been done with little thought to long term consequences - for those in the region as well as for those domestically.

Just like with pre-emptive strikes - once the US does it, it kind of makes it ok for anybody to do it. And those kinds of things have a habit of backfiring.

As the analysis indicates, the response is likely to be a hands off anything goes policy towards anything, as long as it isn’t likely to piss off Trump. Which is all fine and good from a US centric view, but can do the opposite from both a US-ME relation perspective and can be antithetical to the advancement of freedom and democracy in the region. I hope none of that is true, but it is food for thought.
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post #185 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 11:39 AM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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Red Oak, can I ask you, with reference to American Universities: is your suggestion that there is a conscious effort to indoctrinate (in a set of views that we might loosely call "left" or "liberal" or something), or is it just that those Universities tend to have that culture, and so students tend to absorb it from their peers and professors and emerge more "L" than when they went in?
It appears to be both.
Conscious on the part of the activist minded of the faculty. Then there are other faculty who have better things to do with their time.
Perhaps we could say goes back to the saying best way for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.

Where it’s originating I don’t know.
However, the education centers, beginning to end(K-graduate) have/are become/ing indoctrination centers.
Some of the things kids come home and tell parents now days.

I’m not saying all professors do it. There are courses however which can be considered indoctrination.

Study how nations are destroyed from within, and apply it to last 30 years of internal conflict and shifts.

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colleague Michael Toscano and I wrote about the “peer and faculty environment” at one of the nation’s top-rated liberal arts colleges.

What that study showed more than anything is that Bowdoin’s left-wing bias was all pervasive. It wasn’t conveyed just by a few dozen hard-core leftist faculty members, though they did their part. It was embedded in the curriculum as a whole, residence life, extra-curricular activities, extra-curricular activities, pronouncements from the college president, self-declared college crises, invited speakers, student awards, and more. And just as important, that bias was made to seem normal by the absence or near absence of alternative views. It doesn’t feel like “bias” if you are surrounded with people who all agree.
https://www.nas.org/blogs/dicta/yes_...nation_is_real

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For example, a course at the City University of New York is a seminar in Writing Social Justice: Freshman Inquiry. The course description reads, in part, “In this course, we’ll take a look at and practice using the strategies social activists use in documents that further the causes of social justice.”

Course descriptions at other schools often include such terms as social justice, inclusion, community service, radical feminism, elimination of masculine and feminine pronouns, promotion of homosexual and illegal alien rights, degradation of Western Civilization, and destruction of the white male power structure. Courses often follow various theories that the professor favors: feminist, Marxist, queer.

Instead of showing students how to present and defend positions with empirical evidence, many teachers use classroom time to lecture on white privilege, perceived racism, and the alleged bigotry of standard written English. Political activism appears more important than grammar, sentence structure, and thesis development.

Some of it comes from younger instructors such as Alyssa Crow, a teaching assistant at the University of Utah. Writing instruction, she argues, involves more than helping students develop as writers.

In her master’s thesis at Texas State University, she wrote that,

“I must also teach students about privilege, hierarchies, and ideology in order to help them understand that (standard English) continues to be a tool of oppression because it is still privileged over other ways of speaking and writing when we know full-well that it is in no way better (but) simply different—none is better or worse—none marks deficiency; none is unintelligent; none is wrong.”

Crow is among those who have bought into the idea, first proposed in a 1974 resolution called Students’ Right to Their Own Language, that all dialects, including Ebonics and Haitian Creole, should be accepted as equal to standard English in college writing.
How Political Indoctrination Destroyed the Promise of Learning in College Writing Courses

When I first saw people writing about those course descriptors I didn’t believe until I went to college websites and confirmed it myself.


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post #186 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 11:44 AM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
I posted an interesting analysis from the region.

However, what I would say is that once again the region has been destabilized. And once again many people with the ability to invest or profit from oil are making loads of money.

Are you accepting of the same risk for your own political leadership? Just an occupational hazard?


Look, I’m not arguing he was a good guy. I’m not arguing that the attack wasn’t even warranted - because nothing really has been presented there as justification. I’m just going on your judgement here.

What I am attempting to point out is that it seems to have been done with little thought to long term consequences - for those in the region as well as for those domestically.

Just like with pre-emptive strikes - once the US does it, it kind of makes it ok for anybody to do it. And those kinds of things have a habit of backfiring.

As the analysis indicates, the response is likely to be a hands off anything goes policy towards anything, as long as it isn’t likely to piss off Trump. Which is all fine and good from a US centric view, but can do the opposite from both a US-ME relation perspective and can be antithetical to the advancement of freedom and democracy in the region. I hope none of that is true, but it is food for thought.
Um... I'm not a political leader. I am a combatant. Yes, i accept the same occupational hazard as any combatant...

If i don't want to accept that hazard, ill stop being a combatant.

"I am the wiser in respect to all knowledges, and the better qualified for all fortunes, for knowing that there is a minnow in the brook." -Henry David Thoreau
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post #187 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 11:53 AM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

NAS as a source for this seems pretty wrong. An organization that only exists to combat 'liberal indoctrination' and is funded by a right wing billionaire seems like a pretty biased source.

While James G Martin center mission is to add conservatives to the board of universities...seems like another great source.

It is all an echo chamber of right-wing bias, both are also connected to global warming denialism as well, fun times!
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post #188 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 11:58 AM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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Originally Posted by red oak View Post
It appears to be both.
Conscious on the part of the activist minded of the faculty. Then there are other faculty who have better things to do with their time.
Perhaps we could say goes back to the saying best way for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.

Where itís originating I donít know.
However, the education centers, beginning to end(K-graduate) have/are become/ing indoctrination centers.
Some of the things kids come home and tell parents now days.

Iím not saying all professors do it. There are courses however which can be considered indoctrination.

Study how nations are destroyed from within, and apply it to last 30 years of internal conflict and shifts.



https://www.nas.org/blogs/dicta/yes_...nation_is_real



How Political Indoctrination Destroyed the Promise of Learning in College Writing Courses

When I first saw people writing about those course descriptors I didnít believe until I went to college websites and confirmed it myself.


Iím always extremely skeptical of articles like this without a bibliography. They opine and sometimes throw in numbers without proper sourcing of their evidence. Complete fiction.


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post #189 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 12:28 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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Um... I'm not a political leader. I am a combatant. Yes, i accept the same occupational hazard as any combatant...

If i don't want to accept that hazard, ill stop being a combatant.
I can get that. Was Soleimani considered an enemy combatant? I thought he also held a role in their government, making him also a non-combatant.
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post #190 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 12:34 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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I can get that. Was Soleimani considered an enemy combatant? I thought he also held a role in their government, making him also a non-combatant.
How do you figure that? Am i also a non-combatant just because i teach arabic as well?


"I am the wiser in respect to all knowledges, and the better qualified for all fortunes, for knowing that there is a minnow in the brook." -Henry David Thoreau
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post #191 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 12:42 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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How do you figure that? Am i also a non-combatant just because i teach arabic as well?
I'm not sure, but that's not what I meant.

Let's say you ran for public office. Governor, say. You win. Are you still considered a combatant? Are there any rules in the military about what makes up an enemy combatant and what doesn't?

I ask because he seems to be viewed by some in the region as less of a military figure (even though he was a general) and more of a government one.
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post #192 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 12:43 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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I can get that. Was Soleimani considered an enemy combatant? I thought he also held a role in their government, making him also a non-combatant.
Soleimani was a general in the Quds. Hard to make the case that he was a non-combatant.

Society advances one funeral at a time. -- Max Planck
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post #193 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 12:57 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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I'm not sure, but that's not what I meant.

Let's say you ran for public office. Governor, say. You win. Are you still considered a combatant? Are there any rules in the military about what makes up an enemy combatant and what doesn't?

I ask because he seems to be viewed by some in the region as less of a military figure (even though he was a general) and more of a government one.
Well duh. Killing an enemy combatant doesn't sound all that outrageous. Assassinating a foreign political leader sounds much more scandalous.

"I am the wiser in respect to all knowledges, and the better qualified for all fortunes, for knowing that there is a minnow in the brook." -Henry David Thoreau
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post #194 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 01:02 PM
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I can get that. Was Soleimani considered an enemy combatant? I thought he also held a role in their government, making him also a non-combatant.
Soleimani was a general in the Quds. Hard to make the case that he was a non-combatant.
Exactly.

Not to mention his oppresiveness. No one can claim to be in favor of freedom, to be a feminist, etc. and defend this terrorist leader.

It would be laughably dissonant if it wasn't so sad and predictable.
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post #195 of 212 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 01:58 PM
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Re: Incels, Antifa, Socialists, etc.

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Exactly.

Not to mention his oppresiveness. No one can claim to be in favor of freedom, to be a feminist, etc. and defend this terrorist leader.

It would be laughably dissonant if it wasn't so sad and predictable.
Ok again, are you just going to kill everyone you think is bad?
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